Ohio Bill Would Make Abortion Illegal Without Paternal Consent

[calus_3]

I don't understand why anyone else needs to be involved in a private health matter between a patient and their doctor. It really isn't anyone else's business.

Ideally, every conception could be carried to a wonderful birth and there would be no problems and life would be sheer bliss from that moment. However, it doesn't always work that way. Far be it from me to force someone into a situation that they cannot mentally or physically handle.

Sometimes love, compassion and grace are much more effective than hatred, lack of understanding and vulgarity. It also helps to educate and make birth control readily available.

It is very easy to sit in judgement until you have walked a mile in someone else's shoes.

Medical health issues aren't what we are talking about here...at least not me. I am talking about abortion as a form of birth control. If the mother can't make it based on some weird health reason...then you do what you have to do. I think that those cases are lauded by the media and feminist groups but are truly unique and rare.

I don't hate, I have plenty of understanding, and I don't THINK I have used any vulgarity.

Cal

 

[deanws]

I am talking about abortion as a form of birth control.

Cal

Oh I see.... if she gets pregnant SHE is the only one that didn't take birth control measures? :doh:

 

[PaperDoll]

I don't know how I feel about this. I know back in my younger days this very topic would set me ablaze.. :furious: A woman has a right to her own body and what she does with it without any man telling her otherwise (outside of wedlock, of course and even in that she still has a right). Now as I've gotten older I think men should have a say ONLY and I mean ONLY if he intends to take care of that baby until he/she becomes of age. I think this new law, or whatever it is, is a bit extreme.

What bothers me is that a man can use that as a weapon against a woman, meaning he won't sign for her to have an aboration and has no intent of helping her out but is doing this just because he's wants to get even for whatever reason he may have... hope that makes sense?? :waitasec: I'm not saying I'm for or against abortions. I'm just adding my 2 cents to this topic. We all know women have abortions and will continue to whether right or wrong... :twocents: :blushing:

 

[calus_3]

Oh I see.... if she gets pregnant SHE is the only one that didn't take birth control measures? :doh:

No, I never said that.

Men also use abortion as a form of birth control too.

No, both sides are responsible for birth control and I took care of it myself once we were done. I just hope it doesn't reverse!

Cal

 

[MissieMt]

Calus-you are SO right on!! I would be more than happy to give some guy total control over my body for 9 months or more. Who cares if you had a relationship for a while-slept with him a few times-and he turns out to be psycho. That's alright, because since I'm going to have his baby he will have even better excuses to stalk me, and abuse me!!! Shoot-he wants me in pain-I'll be in pain for 9 moths-yippee for him!
Seriously-when men are allowed to decide what we do with our bodies-we should be able to decide what they do with theirs. No beers-that is bad, in effect you are harming a human being. No tattoos, peircings, late nights out, no sitting on the couch eating junk food watching t.v. or sitting on your computer, that's not healthy. What's that? Oh you have a medical condition that requires surgery? NOPE! Because I get to decide what you do with your body tough guy, and you just might die on the operating table. We wouldn't want to hurt you like that.

I personally, am pro-life. I never have, and never want to have an abortion. However, I know that people have rights and I can not take away those rights. Nor can I force my own personal opinions down their throats, trying to force them to think like me.

 

[calus_3]

Calus-you are SO right on!! I would be more than happy to give some guy total control over my body for 9 months or more. Who cares if you had a relationship for a while-slept with him a few times-and he turns out to be psycho. That's alright, because since I'm going to have his baby he will have even better excuses to stalk me, and abuse me!!! Shoot-he wants me in pain-I'll be in pain for 9 moths-yippee for him!
Seriously-when men are allowed to decide what we do with our bodies-we should be able to decide what they do with theirs. No beers-that is bad, in effect you are harming a human being. No tattoos, peircings, late nights out, no sitting on the couch eating junk food watching t.v. or sitting on your computer, that's not healthy. What's that? Oh you have a medical condition that requires surgery? NOPE! Because I get to decide what you do with your body tough guy, and you just might die on the operating table. We wouldn't want to hurt you like that.

I personally, am pro-life. I never have, and never want to have an abortion. However, I know that people have rights and I can not take away those rights. Nor can I force my own personal opinions down their throats, trying to force them to think like me.

Welp, you gave him control of it for 2 minutes (10 if you were lucky ) so that makes you uniquely qualified to participate in whatever results from that...pregnancy, std, etc.

Killing the child that you irresponsbily created is murder.

Cal

 

[tennessee]

Medical health issues aren't what we are talking about here...at least not me. I am talking about abortion as a form of birth control. If the mother can't make it based on some weird health reason...then you do what you have to do. I think that those cases are lauded by the media and feminist groups but are truly unique and rare.

I don't hate, I have plenty of understanding, and I don't THINK I have used any vulgarity.

Cal

Cal, you haven't been vulgar here at all. I guess I was referencing those who stand outside of clinics and scream at young (and some not so young) females. I don't think you are a bad person for having your point of view. I just don't agree with some tactics used by some people. KWIM? I didn't really mean to single you or anyone else out.

I do not consider abortion as birth control morally right. However, I am not going to tell someone else they can't have one. I will encourage them to look into the many options that are available. I would also be willing to support them in any way I can.

I really, really wish that more people would open up to their children and discuss sex. There are so many other consequences than pregnancy. In fact, pregnancy is pretty far down on my list of worries for my children. That I could help them through.

I am pro-choice. I am also pro-options and pro-education.

 

[MissieMt]

Okay-so what if Momma has a medical condition that culd make carrying a child to term dangerous for her? She decides she wants to have an abortion to protect her health, but the guy says no?
Perhaps since a man would be able to decide how a woman gets to handle the after effects of a sexual relationship, woman can do the same? Next time a guy hooks up with a less-than-ladylike girl and he catches an STD-she can decide whether or not he gets to treat it? That would be awesome!

Oh-and just because you have sexual relations doesn't mean the guy has control of you for 2 or 10 minutes,lol!

ETA-okay, just saw you aren't talking about medical conditions, because forcing a woman to carry a baby and cause HER death would be wrong-but isn't pregnancy a medical condition?

 

[Rino]

Then IMO, your "impression" is incorrect... unless you're speaking of when an embryo becomes a child in the womb - that would be up to individuals and their beliefs.

I'm not an advocate of "willy-nilly" abortions, but I do believe a woman should have the right to decide if she's ready to become a mother, if she's financially capable of taking care of this child without gov't help, if she's able to love this child she's carrying. No one should be forced to carry and birth a child that they do not want, especially when the consequences may be too horrid to even contemplate... A man is capable of walking away without a glance, while a woman has this child in her... even if he refuses to "let" her have an abortion, NOTHING makes it his responsiblity to stick around.

If someone is desperate to get rid of a baby and goes to the extreme of an illegal abortion... birth the child and dump it in the garbage bin... birth the child and abandon it ... the law would not be worth it, IMO.

In that case I applaud your honesty. I have never, never heard anyone who is pro-choice refer the the baby, or child, as such. They ususally rely on words like zygot, embryo, fetus or even lump of cells to describe what they are destroying.

 

[calus_3]

Cal, you haven't been vulgar here at all. I guess I was referencing those who stand outside of clinics and scream at young (and some not so young) females. I don't think you are a bad person for having your point of view. I just don't agree with some tactics used by some people. KWIM? I didn't really mean to single you or anyone else out.

I do not consider abortion as birth control morally right. However, I am not going to tell someone else they can't have one. I will encourage them to look into the many options that are available. I would also be willing to support them in any way I can.

I really, really wish that more people would open up to their children and discuss sex. There are so many other consequences than pregnancy. In fact, pregnancy is pretty far down on my list of worries for my children. That I could help them through.

I am pro-choice. I am also pro-options and pro-education.

There is a fine line between telling it like it is (abortion is murder) and not trampling on someone who made a mistake and had an abortion 20 years ago.

We all have our views and it would be disengenous to hold them back for fear of offending someone.

Cal

 

[OneLostGrl]

Only if it's his body that will go through 9 months of pregnancy, and birth and the year of recovery, does he get the choice. But it's not. It's mine.


It's not just so simple. Pregnancy involves work problems, career problems, physical problems, up to and including bed rest for months, permanent injury, death. No amount of money can compensate for that (and I bet that's how much support the father who wants to stop the abortion has to give - none - right?). After the birth - then what happens to the child? Is the father a good sole parent? Can you be positive that the adoptive family, if there is one, will be good parents? Because if I'm going to bring a child into the world, I'm not just going to ignore what happens to it after. Far better to abort an unthinking cluster of cells than to doom a living human being to a lousy childhood of abuse.

Excellent post!!! I'd also like to point out that pregnancy can involve, often even create Mental problems.

I was once anti-abortion- no longer!

 

[tennessee]

Yes, we are all certainly entitled to our opinions and I do respect yours. There just aren't any easy solutions and believe me, if I could wave a magic wand and make everything good, I would. Hearts are going to ache every day from mistakes that we have all made. Some might be worse than others. Some maybe were blessings in disguise.

This is a subject on which all people are never going to agree. My only hope is that we all learn something from each other and pass that knowledge on to others.

 

[OneLostGrl]

They should give the father a say....he helped create it, it is part of him that the mother is murdering. That's a fact.

If I decide at work that someone other than my wife is going to be the beneficiary of my insurance policy, guess what? SHE HAS TO SIGN IT.

Until a girl reaches the age of majority (most states 18), she should have to get her parent's permission. I agree. She isn't a legal adult and this is a good law.

Cal

Would the father prefer she give birth to it then murder it? Yeah, wait till it's a living breathing human, THEN kill it. That'd solve the worlds problems!

 

[calus_3]

Okay-so what if Momma has a medical condition that culd make carrying a child to term dangerous for her? She decides she wants to have an abortion to protect her health, but the guy says no?
Perhaps since a man would be able to decide how a woman gets to handle the after effects of a sexual relationship, woman can do the same? Next time a guy hooks up with a less-than-ladylike girl and he catches an STD-she can decide whether or not he gets to treat it? That would be awesome!

Oh-and just because you have sexual relations doesn't mean the guy has control of you for 2 or 10 minutes,lol!

ETA-okay, just saw you aren't talking about medical conditions, because forcing a woman to carry a baby and cause HER death would be wrong-but isn't pregnancy a medical condition?

Well, I don't have enough information.

Do I still like her or am I tired of putting up with her crap already?

Overused fallacious argument. True medical conditions that you speak of are very rare indeed....yet quoted like 90% of women getting abortions need that to save their lives.

Cal

 

[calus_3]

Would the father prefer she give birth to it then murder it? Yeah, wait till it's a living breathing human, THEN kill it. That'd solve the worlds problems!

That is a shallow argument, no offense.

Anyone killing a child would be dealt with by the legal system.

Cal

 

[OneLostGrl]

Oh what absolute BS.....a father's rights don't start until birth?

Laughable feminism at its worst.

I would submit that the opposite would happen.....the children would either be born and adopted out or given to the father or perhaps, PERHAPS, the kids will stop having sex because they know that abortion is no longer an option.

At the end of this life, women who had abortions will have to answer for that. There will be no Supreme Court justices standing there....there will be no ACLU....the will be no case law. Just a really angry God proclaiming the woman a murderer. Don't believe that? Gooooood luck.

JMHO

Cal

I'm gonna mention something you brought up on another thread here, Cal. Regarding an illness your child has, you pointed out that people who never had to live with it, go through it, should keep their mouths shut about it.

In this thread, that's what I'm going to suggest to you, a man who has never, will never be pregnant. You cannt begin to understand what some people fight with inside of themselves on a daily basis (IE; mental illness) and if a woman knows without a shadow of a doubt they could end up harming their children (the one already born and the one who has yet to be).

Sometimes things are simply black and white, Cal.

 

[OneLostGrl]

That one confuses me. The life I am pro is the unborn child, how can you share that stance and still be pro taking that life?:waitasec:

The life I am "pro" is the living breathing one. Perhaps had Andrea Yates gotten an abortion with that last child, the rest of them would be alive today. Something as "simple" as pregnancy can do such sad, scarey and sick things to a womans body and mind!

 

[calus_3]

I'm gonna mention something you brought up on another thread here, Cal. Regarding an illness your child has, you pointed out that people who never had to live with it, go through it, should keep their mouths shut about it.

In this thread, that's what I'm going to suggest to you, a man who has never, will never be pregnant. You cannt begin to understand what some people fight with inside of themselves on a daily basis (IE; mental illness) and if a woman knows without a shadow of a doubt they could end up harming their children (the one already born and the one who has yet to be).

Sometimes things are simply black and white, Cal.

Well, I feel pregnant, does that count?

Comparing ADD/ADHD with children is much different than the abortion debate.

If a woman knows she would harm her child, she needs to get help, not murder an unborn child and cause herself more harm later.

Cal

 

[calus_3]

Well ladies, it has been a good discussion and everyone has been surprising civil given the topic. But I have to bug out so I am will let it lie where it lies.

Cal

 

[OneLostGrl]

Written by someone who seems very angry at men.

"She says: I don't want to be a Mom, I still have my whole life ahead of me, school, career, marriage.".......well, I suppose that she should have taken steps to ensure that she finished school, started her caeer, and got married BEFORE GETTING PREGNANT. You know, it is possible. There is no Amor god of gotta screw non stop until I ruin my life that makes it impossible to abstain. It is possible to set priorities and hold to them. Getting knocked up isn't something that just happens to you like a car accident where it just happens out of the blue.

Installing a society of murder because of someone's lack of planning or self control IMHO is just that...murder.

Your argument is disgustingly poor.

First, plenty of young women have gone on to finish college with an infant. Harder, yes. Impossible, no.

Second, plenty of young women have gone on to lead very nice careers with children. Done every day.

Third, plenty of young women have gone on to marry despite having a child.

Fourth, there are plenty of people who cannot have children that will pay the medical expenses and then some for the young mother to give them her child in adoption after birth.

Fifth, all of the things that you mentioned as impossible have all been done by pregnant women.


You act as if the only option is to kill a human being when a young woman becomes pregnant at an inconvenient time. I say that is feminism BS. What a deplorable argument, no offense.

Yes, children are expensive. Yes, daycare is expensive. Yes, food is expensive. Yes yes yes. So I guess that I should just go home and execute both of my kids because they are particularly inconvenient at times and are exceedingly expensive, right? After all, I have kids. Kids are incompatible with life and having a life so they must all die. That's your logic. If my financial circumstances change or I decided that I want to change carreers or I decide that I want to go back to school, then I should have the right to kill my children. Afterall, they are hindering me from my pursuit of happiness. That's it, I am killing the kiddos tonight and will be using their college savings to go on a trip to Rome Italy. I have always wanted to see the Colluseum and the expense of kids is too much, tonight they die and I realize my dream.

However, I will actually agree with you. If the young woman wants an abortion and the father does not, the father should have to cover the medical expenses and then raise the child or adopt it. Absolutely, but I am old fashioned and believe that you should be married before bring chidlren in the world and/or marry her if you knock her up.

Don't kill me. I didn't design this world. But I do believe that God gave life and anyone who aborts a child will have a tough time standing before him.

Cal

NO God I believe in will judge me for taking a good hard look at a situation (pregnancy) and making the choice to abort a child rather than go insane while carrying it than possible harming it once it's already alive.

I am a good person, a good, adoring and loving mother and wife but if not for abortion, not only the unborn child but the child that was already alive and 2 years old, would have known a life of abuse at the hands of their "mother".

Sorry but I support ending the "life" before a child is born, not after!