OK - Donald 'Joe' Neff, 61, Poteau, 14 May 2009 - #1
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I have a question about the case I can't understand which of the following two is correct.
1. They found the safe open and some money (thousands) was missing, but there was still some money in the safe?
OR
2. They found the safe open and all the money that was in the safe was taken, but there was money in his shirt and some in the bar that they did not take?
There is no way someone who had traditional robbery as a motive would break into the safe and take some but not all of the cash. It also bothers me that they left such a messy scene at the bar but were so organized at the house that no one could even tell anything was amiss. They even locked the door behind them. This just doesn’t add up to me.
I also don’t think that they were on the phone with an accomplice because why would they not have just done a home invasion in the middle for the night at your father’s house. It would make no sense for them to take the risk of a brazen daylight abduction somewhere else and call back to a third party.
So if my #1 (above) is correct then this is either something more complicated than what it first appears (motive wise) or it is robbery but the plan was to set up some sort of ruse or trick to get your father to have a significant amount of money on his person when he opened the bar that day and he inadvertently left the safe open when he took the money out. Although this seems like it would leave some kind of trail.
OR IF
#2 (above) is correct then it could be robbery but the killers knew about the safe and considered it the “prize” and they did not want to waste time looking around the bar for money. They also probably would not think someone would have $700+ in their shirt pocket so they did not think to look in his pockets or at least not his shirt pocket.
Any way I look at it, it really seems to me that there is no way this was something done randomly or even just a bar robbery. It either was robbery staged (meaning some other motive that is more personal) or a targeted robbery, that was either a set up or done by people that knew about his safe etc. These people either knew your father or knew people that knew your father and they heard stories about the safe etc. They had to somehow know that he was a man that would have access to large amounts of cash and could be tricked into carrying it in public or they knew about the safe. I would really be taking a hard look at the people your father knew and associated with and those people’s friends, definitely including the GF.
1. They found the safe open and some money (thousands) was missing, but there was still some money in the safe?
OR
2. They found the safe open and all the money that was in the safe was taken, but there was money in his shirt and some in the bar that they did not take?
There is no way someone who had traditional robbery as a motive would break into the safe and take some but not all of the cash. It also bothers me that they left such a messy scene at the bar but were so organized at the house that no one could even tell anything was amiss. They even locked the door behind them. This just doesn’t add up to me.
I also don’t think that they were on the phone with an accomplice because why would they not have just done a home invasion in the middle for the night at your father’s house. It would make no sense for them to take the risk of a brazen daylight abduction somewhere else and call back to a third party.
So if my #1 (above) is correct then this is either something more complicated than what it first appears (motive wise) or it is robbery but the plan was to set up some sort of ruse or trick to get your father to have a significant amount of money on his person when he opened the bar that day and he inadvertently left the safe open when he took the money out. Although this seems like it would leave some kind of trail.
OR IF
#2 (above) is correct then it could be robbery but the killers knew about the safe and considered it the “prize” and they did not want to waste time looking around the bar for money. They also probably would not think someone would have $700+ in their shirt pocket so they did not think to look in his pockets or at least not his shirt pocket.
Any way I look at it, it really seems to me that there is no way this was something done randomly or even just a bar robbery. It either was robbery staged (meaning some other motive that is more personal) or a targeted robbery, that was either a set up or done by people that knew about his safe etc. These people either knew your father or knew people that knew your father and they heard stories about the safe etc. They had to somehow know that he was a man that would have access to large amounts of cash and could be tricked into carrying it in public or they knew about the safe. I would really be taking a hard look at the people your father knew and associated with and those people’s friends, definitely including the GF.
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Joe was known to lend money out. Am wondering if the family can think of someone Joe knew who was in dire financial straits at the time.
The fact that "thousands" were removed from the home safe, but "thousands" were left behind makes me think that Joe himself took the money out and had arranged to meet someone at the bar to lend them a lot of money. Could be that the $740 that was in his shirt pocket was set aside to pay some more bills that day. If he had "thousands" on him, that amount would not fit in a shirt pocket. IF this is the scenario, then somebody not only robbed Joe, but killed him as they had no intention of paying him back.
At one time I thought the above scenario would not involve the gf because if she needed money, he could have just given it to her at home. Then I remembered that she supposedly worked another job that morning, so I'm wondering if she was scheduled to work at the bar or was just going there to meet Joe when she got off work at her other job.
BTW, anybody know what's with the red pickup truck that is behind the crime scene tape at one point, and then not behind the crime scene tape at another point in the same video in the following link?
http://www.4029tv.com/news/19467846/detail.html#
The fact that "thousands" were removed from the home safe, but "thousands" were left behind makes me think that Joe himself took the money out and had arranged to meet someone at the bar to lend them a lot of money. Could be that the $740 that was in his shirt pocket was set aside to pay some more bills that day. If he had "thousands" on him, that amount would not fit in a shirt pocket. IF this is the scenario, then somebody not only robbed Joe, but killed him as they had no intention of paying him back.
At one time I thought the above scenario would not involve the gf because if she needed money, he could have just given it to her at home. Then I remembered that she supposedly worked another job that morning, so I'm wondering if she was scheduled to work at the bar or was just going there to meet Joe when she got off work at her other job.
BTW, anybody know what's with the red pickup truck that is behind the crime scene tape at one point, and then not behind the crime scene tape at another point in the same video in the following link?
http://www.4029tv.com/news/19467846/detail.html#
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In the Jody Rilee Wilson thread, I enquired what her hubby did for a living. WSleuther sameole replied in Post 213:
from Identified! OK-Female Body Found in (Heavener Runestone Park) - Page 9 - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community
MMD said Joe had been in the welding business with his brother.
from Identified! OK-Female Body Found in (Heavener Runestone Park) - Page 9 - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community
MMD said Joe had been in the welding business with his brother.
I feel like there has to be a connection between the welding, and possibly the red Truck. This could be entirely wrong but the vehicle is similar in every picture, and is in before suddenly disappearing in the video.
1. There is a red truck at the pig out palace,
2. A red truck is seen at the incident taking place, said to be import, but the picture shows the similarities. I still dont understand why the person interviewed said only imports, hobbies with trucks, job, etc?
3. That last video the truck is in and then out of the taped off area. It makes me question if it is a media vehicle, but one would assume there would still not be allowed on site like that. Off-duty police, possibly?
I only say LE because of how suprisingly little Missingmydad is told, i hope your lawyer can help with that. I've read all the posts for this and cannot wait to hear some LE insight.
I am anxious to hear from Missingmydad, i hope the next message is good news!
1. There is a red truck at the pig out palace,
2. A red truck is seen at the incident taking place, said to be import, but the picture shows the similarities. I still dont understand why the person interviewed said only imports, hobbies with trucks, job, etc?
3. That last video the truck is in and then out of the taped off area. It makes me question if it is a media vehicle, but one would assume there would still not be allowed on site like that. Off-duty police, possibly?
I only say LE because of how suprisingly little Missingmydad is told, i hope your lawyer can help with that. I've read all the posts for this and cannot wait to hear some LE insight.
I am anxious to hear from Missingmydad, i hope the next message is good news!
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GoBrewers, WELCOME!
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The LE suv is moved as well it could have been the guy who showed up right before the girlfriend and they released his truck when they where finished. I dont know that the video would be displayed in order that it was shot. It would be interesting to hear if Missing remembers then truck when she arrived on the scene.
MMD:
Any idea how many security cameras were in the bar?
Was there any outside?
where were they all located?
this case really pulls at the heart strings.. and the possible surveillance is really bugging me. If there's nothing on the video, the police need to tell you!
Any idea how many security cameras were in the bar?
Was there any outside?
where were they all located?
this case really pulls at the heart strings.. and the possible surveillance is really bugging me. If there's nothing on the video, the police need to tell you!
Does that make the girlfriend a person of interest? If there was a red truck spotted around the time of the incident, (and i realize there are more than one red truck made) is there a possibility that she (joes GF) got off work early enough to meet whoever was supposed to meet Joe? Was her truck there still when the police arrived, or did she walk/get a ride that day?
On a side note, i think the welding could be more connected to a mechanic, was the auto part Joe bought that morning found?
On a side note, i think the welding could be more connected to a mechanic, was the auto part Joe bought that morning found?
I can't say if the gf is a person of interest or not, but ALOT of people drive red trucks, and her's is a full size chevy, not a small import?? She is the one who called the police, i believe. So yes, her truck was there when they got there (she was driving it that day). I don't know what time she might have gotten off work from her other job. I also don't know if the LE knew about "the red truck" that was reported at the time or if her's was checked out or not?
Not sure about the part either, have never heard what he bought that day. But I don't believe that his welding would have anything to do with it. Just a coincidence with Jody Wilson's husband, IMO.
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Hi kwhit, and Welcome
Thanks for that info on the truck. Too bad LE swooped in with their vehicle so close to the front entrance (might have obscured some other tracks that could have proved valuable).
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<snip>
Yes, could be just an odd coincidence, and maybe it is fairly ordinary in the country to have a lot of guys that have taken welding courses, but we have:
Jody's husband Bo is a welder
Taylor Placker's dad is a welder
Denise Stice's husband is a welder
Joe Neff was a welder and his brother is a welder
Joe and his brother ran the welding business together
I'm not sure we know where Denise Stice's husband hails from, but it would be worth finding out if he ever lived in or was raised in closer proximity to the other victims/relatives in the more southeast part of OK at some point, and where they all took their welding training/certification.
With hearing that Jody was known to have been at the Long Branch at some point, am wondering if Jody and Bo would have gone there together, or if Jody was known to go to bars solo.
Hi kwhit, and Welcome
Hello sillybilly and Thank you. Don't know how much help I can be if any, but I would certainly like to get some other perspectives on this case.
Yes, it is a fairly common trade here. My dad is a welder, so is my brother, my neighbor and my best friends husband, just to name a few. I think you would be hard pressed to find someone in SE OK who doesn't have some connection to a welder??
I am sorry, I am not familiar with the other cases you mentioned. Is Taylor Placker's dad and Denice Stice's husband, persons of interest in their cases? Could be something maybe. Alot of guys around here go to the vo-tech and grow up welding. I just don't think I understand the connection, are we thinking that all the victims/or families knew someone that is a welder that killed all of them?
Thanks Kimster, me too. Maybe this will help. Do you know if other cases have been solved on here before? I am new to all of this and haven't had time to really read the site over well. Any info or pointers would really be appreciated. Thanks again!
There is a case back when I was first involved with the Weleetka girls that just totally shocked me. I had formulated a theory based on other cases that were unsolved. I was up for fourty hours straight at the computer. Coffee and cigarettes. Denise Stice, the weleetka girls, Joann Stephens. (s.i.c.). American Legion Posts and VFW posts were all in the vicinity of these killings. But, I based this on what I knew about my suspect, Dan. MMD has his name. I had contacted the OSBI 3 or 4 times over the course of a few weeks, originally because Dan showed up here in my corner bar right on the heels of the weleetka girls murders, after a two year abscense. I knew enough about his habits up here to assume he was living the same way out there. Sure enough, the day I called with my theory, they pulled Joann Stephens out of a river still in her truck after missing for a year! It is one of the first questions I asked MMD when I got on here, "was your dad a member of the American Legion or VFW. Ask her youself.
Joann Stephens left her house without her purse, or cigarettes for a job at a warehouse up in Oklahoma city. She was missing for a year. Officially, they say two kids found her car sticking out of the river. Very similiar to Jody. Denise Stice was on her way to work. Found in Water. Her wedding ring was intact. Very similiar to Jody. This is why I don't think bo is involved.
All I can say is, the police, etc, need to get their game face on because there is just too much of this out there. I can't even begin to tell you how far some of this stretched. Dan's ex girlfriend was busted a few months after my tip in west branch mi, for selling cocaine out of Bucemis' pizzaria, right across the street from the Ogemaw county Sheriffs. They apparently were the only ones in town who didn't know she was a drug dealer. Everyone else did. There, I vented.
Joann Stephens left her house without her purse, or cigarettes for a job at a warehouse up in Oklahoma city. She was missing for a year. Officially, they say two kids found her car sticking out of the river. Very similiar to Jody. Denise Stice was on her way to work. Found in Water. Her wedding ring was intact. Very similiar to Jody. This is why I don't think bo is involved.
All I can say is, the police, etc, need to get their game face on because there is just too much of this out there. I can't even begin to tell you how far some of this stretched. Dan's ex girlfriend was busted a few months after my tip in west branch mi, for selling cocaine out of Bucemis' pizzaria, right across the street from the Ogemaw county Sheriffs. They apparently were the only ones in town who didn't know she was a drug dealer. Everyone else did. There, I vented.
Yes, it is a fairly common trade here. My dad is a welder, so is my brother, my neighbor and my best friends husband, just to name a few. I think you would be hard pressed to find someone in SE OK who doesn't have some connection to a welder??
I am sorry, I am not familiar with the other cases you mentioned. Is Taylor Placker's dad and Denice Stice's husband, persons of interest in their cases? Could be something maybe. Alot of guys around here go to the vo-tech and grow up welding. I just don't think I understand the connection, are we thinking that all the victims/or families knew someone that is a welder that killed all of them?
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#457 Today, 07:28 PM
Well, I think what seems to connect all of these welders is the welders union or something like that. Someone at the social security office, or the insurance companiess that handle welders. That's where I'am at with it. For instance, Jody had a baby, insurance. She had post partum depression. insurance. Taylor Placker was living with her grandparents. Social Security. Joe was getting ready to retire. Social Security. Just food for thought. Joann Stephens, depressed, and according to her husband, "didn't take her pills with her." Insurance.
I am sorry, I am not familiar with the other cases you mentioned. Is Taylor Placker's dad and Denice Stice's husband, persons of interest in their cases? Could be something maybe. Alot of guys around here go to the vo-tech and grow up welding. I just don't think I understand the connection, are we thinking that all the victims/or families knew someone that is a welder that killed all of them?
kwhit23
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#457 Today, 07:28 PM
Well, I think what seems to connect all of these welders is the welders union or something like that. Someone at the social security office, or the insurance companiess that handle welders. That's where I'am at with it. For instance, Jody had a baby, insurance. She had post partum depression. insurance. Taylor Placker was living with her grandparents. Social Security. Joe was getting ready to retire. Social Security. Just food for thought. Joann Stephens, depressed, and according to her husband, "didn't take her pills with her." Insurance.
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