OK OK - Girl Scout Murders, Lori Farmer, 8, Michelle Guse, 9, Doris Milner, 10, 1977

[Vedder]

If only the evidence at the crime scene matched up it would be a slam dunk. But nothing matched up, and I have to say if anyone harbored him after the triple murders then they must have really believed his innocence. I don't care who you are if you think someone murdered three little girls you are not going to hide them out. I also think the "THE KILLER WAS HERE BYE BYE FOOLS" was probably a prank because really why would someone write that? I think a handwriting analysis was done and it didn't match his writing. Gene Hart was what 37 at the time of the murders? It just doesn't fit the profile of who did this, he had never murdered before, that we know of. He had no record of being a pedophill in all the 37 years of his life. I am no fan of Gene Hart, he was a bad guy but the bootprint, shoeprint, and fingerprint point to someone or someones other than him. This was planned for sometime, it could have been someone associated with the camp or a former employee who knew the grounds really well.

I agree with the writing being a prank. Something a kid/teen would write.

 

[Betty P]

What does everyone think about the shoes and socks of Doris Milner that reappeared at Camp Scott after the murders?

On July 28, a plastic bag appeared on the steps of the building that LE was using as their command center at Camp Scott. It allegedly contained shoes marked with the name Doris Milner and a pink pair of socks. They were wet.

http://www.girlscoutmurders.com/SHOES.html

The the links to the articles are broken at the web page above, but if you zoom in, you can read it fairly easily.

 

[Vedder]

What does everyone think about the shoes and socks of Doris Milner that reappeared at Camp Scott after the murders?

On July 28, a plastic bag appeared on the steps of the building that LE was using as their command center at Camp Scott. It allegedly contained shoes marked with the name Doris Milner and a pink pair of socks. They were wet.

http://www.girlscoutmurders.com/SHOES.html

The the links to the articles are broken at the web page above, but if you zoom in, you can read it fairly easily.

Very creepy.

 

[Betty P]

Correction to the writing in the cave about the murders: It was a different cave than the one where Hart was believed to have stayed. It was a cave about 1 mi from Camp Scott

https://news.google.com/newspapers?...91872&dq=message+found+in+cave+oklahoma&hl=en

Another article about it here. This article also mentions that 15 leaders of the AIM (American Indian Movement) recently met with Hart and determined he's not guilty. Interesting if true, sounds like quite a few people knew where Hart was as LE were searching for him.

https://news.google.com/newspapers?...tohAAAAIBAJ&sjid=f6AFAAAAIBAJ&pg=5434,1209902

 

[MaryG12]

What does everyone think about the shoes and socks of Doris Milner that reappeared at Camp Scott after the murders?

On July 28, a plastic bag appeared on the steps of the building that LE was using as their command center at Camp Scott. It allegedly contained shoes marked with the name Doris Milner and a pink pair of socks. They were wet.

http://www.girlscoutmurders.com/SHOES.html

The the links to the articles are broken at the web page above, but if you zoom in, you can read it fairly easily.

Creepy, to be sure, according to that Tulsa Tribune article a silhouette of a man was seen not far from where the girl's shoes were placed.

Do you suppose someone was trying to frame GLH? Or maybe have GLH be the "fall guy"?

 

[missgulfsouth]

Maybe making guttural groaning sounds during rape and stealing people's glasses is common amongst psychopaths.

 

[huxley72]

It has been a long time since I did these calculations in a Calculus class but body temperature cooling depends greatly on air temperature, and I think also on the mass of the body. We would need to know the approximate air temperature the night of the murders to figure time of death. It was summer, so it was probably warm.
If someone can find the air temperature, I might be able to do the math.

I found out the Tulsa weather the high on the 13th was 87 and the low was 67 and judging by the chart it went from 73 to 67 between 3am and 6am.

https://www.wunderground.com/histor...statename=&reqdb.zip=&reqdb.magic=&reqdb.wmo=

 

[huxley72]

Can't understand how someone came back to the crime scene some time later to bring back evidence. All the while LE has got to be everywhere.

 

[HoneyWest]

I think Pete Weaver had tunnel vision when it came to Hart. He was going to be the named suspect no matter what. I also believe LE perhaps cleared too many people too quickly, and didn't follow up once the manhunt started.

 

[MaryG12]

I wonder if it is possible that GLH knew who committed these murders - is it possible he did not directly take part in it? For all the items to disappear then reappear mysteriously with no one seeing who was doing it?

It is just all very weird to me.

 

[missgulfsouth]

Are we allowed to name other people we think we're involved?

 

[Vedder]

Are we allowed to name other people we think we're involved?

Probably not. I'm not sure if we can even use initials. Perhaps alert a mod to your post?

 

[TedMac]

Are we allowed to name other people we think we're involved?

Not sure about "naming" them, but we cannot sleuth them unless they have been named a POI or suspect by LE.

 

[Betty P]

I wonder if it is possible that GLH knew who committed these murders - is it possible he did not directly take part in it? For all the items to disappear then reappear mysteriously with no one seeing who was doing it?

It is just all very weird to me.

The only items that "reappeared" were Doris Milner's shoes and socks, IIRC. The opinion seemed to be OBI or someone misplaced them or were using them in the search.

Did something else disappear, then reappear?

 

[missgulfsouth]

There's a certain person, very evil, who's niece believes he was involved... he lives very close. But police refuse to listen to her.

It is interesting that all of the main suspects are dead and there has never been AFAIK another murder like this one in the area.

 

[huxley72]

There's a certain person, very evil, who's niece believes he was involved... he lives very close. But police refuse to listen to her.

It is interesting that all of the main suspects are dead and there has never been AFAIK another murder like this one in the area.

Has the guy had any prior convictions and does he have an alibi for that time frame. Also how far from the camp does he live? You think it would be worth the effort to fingerprint the guy.

 

[Betty P]

Has the guy had any prior convictions and does he have an alibi for that time frame. Also how far from the camp does he live? You think it would be worth the effort to fingerprint the guy.

He had prior rape charges brought against him by a 13 yo female family member a few years after the murders. Charges were eventually dropped, possibly under pressure. He still lives nearby, within several miles of Camp Scott. He provided LE with important information that helped place GLH near the crime scene hours before the murders.

 

[huxley72]

He had prior rape charges brought against him by a 13 yo female family member a few years after the murders. Charges were eventually dropped, possibly under pressure. He still lives nearby, within several miles of Camp Scott. He provided LE with important information that helped place GLH near the crime scene hours before the murders.

What part of the preliminary trial was he in? I want to brush up on my reading? Convenient he was the one placing Hart near the murders. Shoe size, fingerprints, and DNA could exonarate if he has nothing to hide.

 

[Betty P]

What part of the preliminary trial was he in? I want to brush up on my reading? Convenient he was the one placing Hart near the murders. Shoe size, fingerprints, and DNA could exonarate if he has nothing to hide.

That's the interesting part. He wasn't included in pre-trial testimony, nor was he mentioned much as a witness in the case. Some have also speculated that he was the person who gave LE the tip about GLH's location, leading to his capture.

Here's a link to a copy of the news story back then. You'll need to scroll down the page through several other articles to see it

http://nebula.wsimg.com/df4b28e4526...4109980B88DCD7256&disposition=0&alloworigin=1

 

[huxley72]

That's the interesting part. He wasn't included in pre-trial testimony, nor was he mentioned much as a witness in the case. Some have also speculated that he was the person who gave LE the tip about GLH's location, leading to his capture.

Here's a link to a copy of the news story back then. You'll need to scroll down the page through several other articles to see it

http://nebula.wsimg.com/df4b28e4526...4109980B88DCD7256&disposition=0&alloworigin=1

Thanks I read the story the peculiar thing is he said he hardly knew him. But put him near the crime scene, something does smell.