OK OK - Jamison Family: Truck, IDs and Dog Found Abandoned 08 Oct 2009 - #12

[HauntsForHope]

Skulls, shoes and clothing, all in the same location. Teeth missing, all very suspicious.

 

[TobyWong*]

I'd luv to see video of LE arriving then the recovery process. It would be suspicious if no teeth at all anywhere, would'nt it? I'm wondering how far out from the bones the dirt was sifted? Do teeth usually stay in the skull? Or do scavengers pick out the soft tissue around teeth so they end up falling out? Teeth would still fall out right there w/ skull I'd imagine.

 

[TooCurious]

I wish this reporter would have done a better job. You would think a month in from last known sighting those corpses would have begun to decay and buzzards would have been around somewhere. I would have liked to hear what his opinion was, if he thought they had been there the whole time. Slight depression and skulls not moved does sound like they could have been pushed in the mud and as the mud dried kind of braced them against rolling.
I saw on FTJ where LE was thinking it was natural causes, any insight?

 

[Dallen]

I hate to see things starting to slow down.

 

[TobyWong*]

Imo. If they died at that spot I would imagine nature imbedding bones over time. Rains,mud,surround Tue bones leaving sediment pooled around them. My sons toy cars and plastic people get naturally stuck in the ground every year. Come the following sprng we get a chuckle out of where and how the stuff ends up. If the Jamesons died and fell forward, in that spot I can see the bones being somewhat in the ground.
But if that were the case, teeth would still be w/ the skulls. IMO.

 

[zollie]

If foul play was involved and someone attempted to bury the bodies what does it say about the killer that the skulls are face down? The skeltons location was it searched or on the edge of an area that was searched? So I was thinking who would it have benefited if remains are found, never found or delayed in finding. 1. The Jamison bros, best if remains are found immediately. 2.Bobby and Sherrilyn best if Madson survives Bob Sr. 3. Sherris ex (and son) would be best if Madysen survived Bob sr. 4. random , best if never found. 5. S well this is the diffcult one unless you have a good lawyer and maybe a judge maybe all that benefits her is all the confusion is Madyson alive or dead : If madyson dies before Bob sr. then bros get estate , if Madyson survives Bob sr. then her parents get estate, if all three die then it goes to her brother good thing he moved out that summer. I think her brother is the heir to her estate , if star argued she died before Bob sr then it would go to bros.
Determining madysons next of kin
children none
parents none
grandchildren none
siblings yes
grandparents

So my dad is going on vacation for a year I told him that iam going to take his truck down to the dam throw some fishing poles, his old id, couple hundred dollars some books on killing youself and wait for l.e. to inform me he is missing then sell his house , truck take bank accts. courts say sorry? he said only if you know a good lawyer/ judge.

 

[little726]

Imo. If they died at that spot I would imagine nature imbedding bones over time. Rains,mud,surround Tue bones leaving sediment pooled around them. My sons toy cars and plastic people get naturally stuck in the ground every year. Come the following sprng we get a chuckle out of where and how the stuff ends up. If the Jamesons died and fell forward, in that spot I can see the bones being somewhat in the ground.
But if that were the case, teeth would still be w/ the skulls. IMO.

If the skulls had been there for 4 years, stuck in the mud, face down, I think the teeth would be imbedded in the ground!

I just don't think they were there the whole 4 years!

 

[poppygirl]

Just FYI, in another Oklahoma case, it was reported today that the remains of Lisa Kregear, Wendy Camp, and Cynthia Britto have been positively ID'd. They were found last April and this is January, so it took about nine months. The article doesn't say DNA testing was done at the University of North Texas, but I'd bet money that was the case.

ME: Pawnee County Remains Identified As Trio Missing Since 1992

This is absolutely outrageous! I don't care how backed up the case loads are - they should be seeking help from other police departments, states, whatever. Citizens of Oklahoma should be outraged that it takes so long to ID human remains...while murderers roam free & start covering their tracks. I don't care how old the case is. It starting to sound like Oklahoma is a great place for a serial killer to set up shop. People should be protesting outside the coroner's office. Appalling!

Sorry for the vent, the deceased and their families deserve better than this.

 

[TobyWong*]

For those that dont think the Jamisons have been in that location the whole time, where were they? Who and how and why would you keep 3 human bodies so they are'nt discovered by smell or by accident? Why put them back in the general area they were known to be in? To me that seems like way to much work. Way to many possibilities to get caught. In this theory, do you think this opens perp possibilities to not only locals but maybe someone known to them that took them away from area but brought the bones back to be discovered in last known area? Just curious.

 

[wfgodot]

I think they were killed elsewhere then deposited at the body site soon after the first extensive search petered out.

 

[watcher9]

Are you seeing some buildings other than the ones marked here?

I've been tracing the network of roads this afternoon and, honestly, some of them may just be 4-wheeler tracks. Some definitely get more use than others. There's a cluster of roads going nowhere right in the middle of the image; it looks like it's on a plateau, maybe only occasionally used by hunters or something. Others just kind of peter out, off into nothing.

This one?

I have brought up some of the maps that Okie Granny had posted for reference.

I was under the impression that they did not search that part of the mountain where the remains were found. When we looked at the grid where they searched on top of the map that OkieGranny did, it showed they were not even close. I couldn't find that map. I wonder if they even searched on the other side of the mountain from where the truck was found? Maybe OkieGranny can draw a line where the top of the mountain ridge is on one of her map?

 

[zollie]

Some FBI stats: clandestine graves are typically no deeper than 2.5 ft deep are close to water or near a poorly travled road, are 10 feet away from the largest tree, and contain a clothed or wrapped corpse which will be face down. the abduction and murder by child predators are most often crime of opportunity (57%) the majority seek to dispose of body as soon as possible (31% in 3 hrs or less, 69% within 24 hrs) when held onto longer it is most often at residence. Disposal sites are deliberately chosen 49% the time, 37% chosen by random or circumstance. Most often recovered within 200 feet of murder. Recovery sites 1. Remote areas with vehicle/road access. 2.Near or in water. 3. Within 1/2 mile of intersection. 4. Dirt roads favored over paved. 5.Body often found within 150 ft of access rd. 6. Body located to downhill side if sloped ground is present.

 

[Krieger2]

For those that dont think the Jamisons have been in that location the whole time, where were they? Who and how and why would you keep 3 human bodies so they are'nt discovered by smell or by accident? Why put them back in the general area they were known to be in? To me that seems like way to much work. Way to many possibilities to get caught. In this theory, do you think this opens perp possibilities to not only locals but maybe someone known to them that took them away from area but brought the bones back to be discovered in last known area? Just curious.

I could be that they might have been somewhere else most of the last 4 years. Suppose the person who murdered them had put them in location where they could monitor the area (their property, or adjacent property). The murderer decides to move or someone else bought the property who may discover the remains. The murderer might take a few recognizable remains (skulls, pelvises) and takes them back up to the area they were originally kidnapped (or killed) from. Of the bones that are left, how many would recognize them as human? Placing the skulls and other bits where they might be found within a year or two would make people believe they had been their all along.

I dont know if I believe this or not. It may be more likely they had been in shallow graves. There are not enough facts known yet to form an good opinion of what the case is. I do not believe that Bobby walked that far, so I think that someone else is involve. I am 99% sure that it is a case of murder. LE is not helping. They are tight lipped. It that because they are working the case behind the scenes or they are doing nothing and just want it to go away?

 

[wfgodot]

Weicome to WS, Krieger2.

 

[Soulmagent]

I think they were killed elsewhere then deposited at the body site soon after the first extensive search petered out.

I want to believe this too.

Not sure if I do, but I want to.

 

[Krieger2]

Weicome to WS, Krieger2.

Thank you. I have been reading post for about a month. Finally registered.

 

[watcher9]

I came across this article on another case that I thought was interesting. The defense team had a specialist perform an experiment about moving a body after a couple of days...

She placed two freshly killed pigs dressed in a T-shirt and shorts in the shade. After death, their chests were stabbed and their throats cut.

More than two days later, both decomposing pigs were dragged toward the road, wrapped in plastic bags, put in bins in the back of a truck, then driven for an hour to replicate the alleged trip up north.

She concluded that if Bain's body had lain in the park for three days and been transported by car, it is "highly probable" that hundreds of maggots from the body would have fallen into her vehicle in 1990. None were found.

http://www.thestar.com/news/gta/2008/04/24/bains_body_wouldnt_id_killer.html

 

[salgtrn]

Metal detecting is a hobby of mine. Remembered this thread on a metal detecting forum that I check out frequently. I know it's regarding metals etc., but I found it interesting and related it to the rate a body will sink or depress into the soil.

ABOUT COIN DEPTHS

Why are some older coins very shallow when newer coins are deep at the same sites? How can a new coin sink deeper in a few years than an old one in over 80 years?

The Density of Soil

The density of inorganic soil is from 2.6 to 2.8 and any object of greater density, including coins, would eventually sink until the density of the soil equaled the density of the object.

The Sink Rate

The sink rate is determined by the difference in density, the greater the density the faster the sink rate. Contributing factors are vibration, rain, frozen soil, grass buildup, leaves and a few others.

How often the ground gets saturated can be a much bigger driver of coin depth than any minor differences in soil density. Until the ground directly beneath the coin becomes saturated to the point where the dirt becomes suspended in the water, and can move to the sides of the coin due to the coin weight, then little depth due to sinking can occur.

That's why many coins seem to end up in the 6-8 inch range - it takes a real soaker to move them deeper. So maybe the discrepancies in coin depth can be attributed to minor differences in the local drainage. The finer the soil particles, the easier they get suspended and the faster the sink rate.

One must also consider the environment.... water table levels, erosion factor, density of the soil, obstructions like roots, rocks etc that hinder the coin from sinking. A well traveled gravel path will have much denser soil than loosely packed loam just a few feet away. Human and animal activities above the soil like sports activities, farming plows, raking, landscaping, can also change the coins depth up or down even after many years in the soil.

I personally think they haven't been there the whole time.

 

[TobyWong*]

I'm intrigued re: them not being there the whole time. Is it because of location so they would've been found? And/or dad's back issue? And/or child's age?
The back issue is moot to me. My husband had disks removed years ago and has oher physical ailments but it feels good for him to stretch his legs, breath fresh air. With water,snacks and map we could hike that and then some.
I think I mentioned before the last pic of Madyson would be what my son would look like after a few hours, he wouldn't want to take another step. Trust me I've over estimated his stamina on a few hikes.
I sadly wake up this morning w/ frustration (w/ multiple contributing factors) escalating to murder/suicide. Obviously we need to know what eles was found and exactly how they were positioned. I'm using the hole on top of head in large skull, last pic of Madyson,they had been looking for other properties, mom's possible mental state( I am completes sympathetic for what I believe her life to have been IMO. not to possible murder if that's how it ends). They thought they could get there (property to check out) and be back to the truck in short time.
Just new thoughts to me this morning. It falls into place for me more than random murder of 3 harmless humans,one being a child.
Definatly want more info though.

 

[SchoolgirlShamus]

I came across this article on another case that I thought was interesting. The defense team had a specialist perform an experiment about moving a body after a couple of days...

She placed two freshly killed pigs dressed in a T-shirt and shorts in the shade. After death, their chests were stabbed and their throats cut.

More than two days later, both decomposing pigs were dragged toward the road, wrapped in plastic bags, put in bins in the back of a truck, then driven for an hour to replicate the alleged trip up north.

She concluded that if Bain's body had lain in the park for three days and been transported by car, it is "highly probable" that hundreds of maggots from the body would have fallen into her vehicle in 1990. None were found.

http://www.thestar.com/news/gta/2008/04/24/bains_body_wouldnt_id_killer.html

Thank you for this. I frequently see people talking on crime forums about believing bodies were moved. But the reality of decomposition (depending on a few factors) pretty much dictates that, unless stored in a container or wrapped in a plastic bag etc., moving a body would be a very messy and difficult proposition after no more than a few days.