Found Deceased OK - Jarral Osburn, 36, Sand Springs, 28 Aug 2012

[charok]

It also looks like it would be exceptionally dark out there at night time, with the exception of the neighborhood to the left and the farm land to the right. There is a waterway and the woods look thick and filled with brush. Another possibility would be that he took some kind of refuge somewhere, like a shed, a barn, a lean to....something like that. Sometimes people in a certain mind set will head to water or climb up or hunker down somewhere cave like. I wonder if there any abandoned wells out in that area? Even drainage pipes?

good question bc if there are a few houses there ( from what i can see on google maps) then surely there would be drainage pipes at the very least somewhere in the vacinity? again i dont go to tulsa area very often...at all. last time i went was what, in 2002. and definately wouldnt go in that area/ if it is indeed to be rumored a rough neighborhood

 

[Magdalyn]

I think if LE pulls up phone records and ping records it could be easy to determine if first the phones were moving together, then were pinging apart and then was a call placed from one to another which resulted in an actual conversation for any length of time. After that conversation Jarral's phone would be moving to the direction of his friends' again.
Of course I have absolutely no idea if LE has done this or even had the permission to do this.

True, they would have to get permission, I believe, from JC, and a court order for Jarral's phone I believe.

The other thing is, from what I understand (and feel free to correct me if I'm wrong!), pings can only triagulate an area between the three closest towers, and that triangulation might encompass an area between a quarter mile and several miles. I don't think it would show as one pinpoint. So if the area is not highly populated/close to a big city, the triangulation area may not be terribly precise at all (because the towers are so far apart). Might be swath of 3 or 4 miles. I have no idea exactly what the phone company can see, but I don't think it would indicate a phone so specifically that one could determine if two phones signalling in the same triangulation area were next to each other or a quarter of a mile or more apart. The closest I've heard of one being narrowed down to and eventually found was a quarter of a mile. If that's the closest patch of land they can narrow down one ping, I don't think they could for sure say whether two phones were pinging from inches apart or that quarter of a mile when the call was made. But I could be wrong! :twocents:

Anyway, if he did do that (faked the call), then he could have removed the battery after the call (they said no phone activity after that day--that may mean no pinging too) and at any time on his walk home or over the next 30 days he could have tossed Jarral's phone just about anywhere, no pinging.

In fact the 'no activity after that exchange/day' leads me more to believe foul play over the wandered into the woods/got lost, etc, because the likelihood of his battery just dying completely the same night he goes missing....

Of course, this presumes 'no phone activity' encompasses no pinging. :twocents:

 

[Magdalyn]

Okay, I see the circumstances say 'no cell traffic after the 28th' so I guess it may have still been pinging but no one called to or from it?

Wouldn't one think JC would have called after Jarral never showed up with his sudafed? At least once? You can only buy so much in a short period of time and he has meth? Or just to see what the heck happened that he didn't come back? Or maybe they were just aquintences? And he thought 'whatever' and forgot all about him/ did not notice Jarral fell off the face of the earth for 30 days? :waitasec:

I know, I'm :deadhorse: carry on with other theories!

 

[believe09]

OK-so I wonder if locals out there would be willing to weigh in on the area and whether there are retention ponds, old wells or shafts, or drainage pipes for the road even?

Sometimes when someone is having a chemical reaction and they are not themselves, they get the idea to burrow in or hide. Depending on the weather etc it can rapidly turn into a situation that is very dangerous. I am certain LE has ping records. Easy to get and a great way to determine his last possible direction. They appear to be concerned for his safety and they conducted what was probably a thorough search. I do know that sometimes in situations like that community awareness can be crucial as well.

Checking out lying buildings and wood piles and abandoned cars and the like can sometimes help determine if the missing person was in the area. Unexplained breakins...you know, things like that. Perhaps a vehicle was stolen...

am I making sense?

 

[charok]

Okay, I see the circumstances say 'no cell traffic after the 28th' so I guess it may have still been pinging but no one called to or from it?

Wouldn't one think JC would have called after Jarral never showed up with his sudafed? At least once? You can only buy so much in a short period of time and he has meth? Or just to see what the heck happened that he didn't come back? Or maybe they were just aquintences? And he thought 'whatever' and forgot all about him/ did not notice Jarral fell off the face of the earth for 30 days? :waitasec:

I know, I'm :deadhorse: carry on with other theories!

THANK YOU!!!! i figured jc would be burning up the phone lines and bombarding him w/ text messages esp when jarral never showed back up...you figured if he had jarral go thru the trouble of signing for it in walgreens, he needed it for something pretty darn bad...and obviously important enough to call him to start with to have him double back to return the box...i did ask one our mutual friends if they had heard if they ever found the box in the car or not. he never heard either way/ assumed the cops wanted to keep that fact under wraps( whether the box was in there or not?)

 

[believe09]

http://www.tulsagal.net/2011/01/tulsas-coal-mines.html

I have been trying to interpret the location of mine shafts in and around Tulsa. There arent many resources online that show their actual location in a contemporary city.

So the area where he went missing is a difficult neighbor hood? How? Gangs, drugs, transitional housing....let me know.

 

[believe09]

It makes complete sense that the sudafed would be hold back info. I wonder if there were other drugs involved as well. It would be so helpful to know what Jarral might have ingested.

That car has to have a wealth of evidence. Fingerprints, hair, debris...I mean it was dumped and locked in the middle of the road.

 

[amberdawn723]

Here's a map I made using what info I could find.....just to get an idea where everything is in relation to his found car.
https://maps.google.com/maps/ms?msid=204150161293193815171.0004d39aa810d4643b4f7&msa=0&ll=36.233197,-95.993042&spn=0.193851,0.41851

 

[Magdalyn]

Here's a map I made using what info I could find.....just to get an idea where everything is in relation to his found car.
https://maps.google.com/maps/ms?msid=204150161293193815171.0004d39aa810d4643b4f7&msa=0&ll=36.233197,-95.993042&spn=0.193851,0.41851

That's awesome! Thanks for taking the time to do this!

 

[charok]

Here's a map I made using what info I could find.....just to get an idea where everything is in relation to his found car.
https://maps.google.com/maps/ms?msid=204150161293193815171.0004d39aa810d4643b4f7&msa=0&ll=36.233197,-95.993042&spn=0.193851,0.41851

thanks to you amberdawn723- this is GREAT! shows where collinsville is, where the walgreens in owasso is, and where the car was found...figure 3 or so miles south is where jc lives?? thanks again for taking the time to do this, so we can have a "reference point" to get our bearings on who is where. thanks much!!!:rocker:

 

[amberdawn723]

thanks to you amberdawn723- this is GREAT! shows where collinsville is, where the walgreens in owasso is, and where the car was found...figure 3 or so miles south is where jc lives?? thanks again for taking the time to do this, so we can have a "reference point" to get our bearings on who is where. thanks much!!!:rocker:

I believe JC lives 3 miles North of where the car is if I'm not mistaken. His car was facing North heading toward his house. I put the approx distance on the map too. I'm thinking he probably lives in that trailer park area to the West of the road towards the top of that 3 mile mark.

 

[believe09]

FANTASTIC map!!!!

 

[believe09]

I wish we knew if his car was likely abandoned on the 28 or the 29. If on the 28th, was it late night I wonder?

 

[Orgona]

True, they would have to get permission, I believe, from JC, and a court order for Jarral's phone I believe.

The other thing is, from what I understand (and feel free to correct me if I'm wrong!), pings can only triagulate an area between the three closest towers, and that triangulation might encompass an area between a quarter mile and several miles. I don't think it would show as one pinpoint. So if the area is not highly populated/close to a big city, the triangulation area may not be terribly precise at all (because the towers are so far apart). Might be swath of 3 or 4 miles. I have no idea exactly what the phone company can see, but I don't think it would indicate a phone so specifically that one could determine if two phones signalling in the same triangulation area were next to each other or a quarter of a mile or more apart. The closest I've heard of one being narrowed down to and eventually found was a quarter of a mile. If that's the closest patch of land they can narrow down one ping, I don't think they could for sure say whether two phones were pinging from inches apart or that quarter of a mile when the call was made. But I could be wrong! :twocents:

Anyway, if he did do that (faked the call), then he could have removed the battery after the call (they said no phone activity after that day--that may mean no pinging too) and at any time on his walk home or over the next 30 days he could have tossed Jarral's phone just about anywhere, no pinging.

In fact the 'no activity after that exchange/day' leads me more to believe foul play over the wandered into the woods/got lost, etc, because the likelihood of his battery just dying completely the same night he goes missing....

Of course, this presumes 'no phone activity' encompasses no pinging. :twocents:

BBM
Yes, I suppose I was wrongly using the word pinpoint in place of using narrow down.
It all depends on how many cell towers are in the area. How more towers there are, the smaller is the area they can narrow down to show as the place of the phones were in.
If people are moving together on the road their phone ping map would look very similar to one another. Evidently when they begin to move away from eachother they will begin to ping other towers, but how fast that will happen depends again on how far the towers are placed from one another and how far they are reachable.

 

[charok]

I wish we knew if his car was likely abandoned on the 28 or the 29. If on the 28th, was it late night I wonder?

hmmm im not sure. im sketchy on military time but the 1735hrs it reported as him being @ walgreens, would be what 535pm? so that was at owasso. so ok, jarral drops jc off at home...trying to figure out what kind of evening "rush" traffic tulsa would have( which i understand can be a b-word but not like houston, for example. i figure 20-30 min max to drop jc off..so that would put i estimate jc home @ 6pm or so. probably not much longer for jc to call jarral to double back...estimate the call perhaps 610pm or maybe 630pm at most. MOO i figure the car had to been abandoned by 630pm-700pm maybe? and during late august, it was still daylight/end of summer, didnt start getting dark until what 830pm???? i will see if i can do some digging to see specs for that day, eg sunrise/ sunset times....again just a ESTIMATED LOOSE timeline, i have no info on concrete times jc was dropped off at this house just yet. and unless i discovered otherwise i ASSUME it would be still daylight when the car was abandoned.i think the car was towed the next day 8-29-12

ok i found a sunrise sunset table for oklahoma can select months and year in ? i select aug 2012 this is what i get for 8-28-12
sunrise 653am sunset was 756pm

so my estimate of sunset at 830pm was off, but still even based off the 756pm sunset the table confirms, IMO it was still light when i figure the car to been abandoned??

http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/astronomy.html?n=402&month=8&year=2012&obj=sun&afl=-11&day=1

 

[charok]

hmmm im not sure. im sketchy on military time but the 1735hrs it reported as him being @ walgreens, would be what 535pm? so that was at owasso. so ok, jarral drops jc off at home...trying to figure out what kind of evening "rush" traffic tulsa would have( which i understand can be a b-word but not like houston, for example. i figure 20-30 min max to drop jc off..so that would put i estimate jc home @ 6pm or so. probably not much longer for jc to call jarral to double back...estimate the call perhaps 610pm or maybe 630pm at most. MOO i figure the car had to been abandoned by 630pm-700pm maybe? and during late august, it was still daylight/end of summer, didnt start getting dark until what 830pm???? i will see if i can do some digging to see specs for that day, eg sunrise/ sunset times....again just a ESTIMATED LOOSE timeline, i have no info on concrete times jc was dropped off at this house just yet. and unless i discovered otherwise i ASSUME it would be still daylight when the car was abandoned.i think the car was towed the next day 8-29-12

ok i found a sunrise sunset table for oklahoma can select months and year in ? i select aug 2012 this is what i get for 8-28-12
sunrise 653am sunset was 756pm

so my estimate of sunset at 830pm was off, but still even based off the 756pm sunset the table confirms, IMO it was still light when i figure the car to been abandoned??

http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/astronomy.html?n=402&month=8&year=2012&obj=sun&afl=-11&day=1

ok nevermind ( i need to not post until i have coffee!!! LOL) owasso walgreens was at 535pm...THEN trip to collinsville, then the trip to drop jc off. so that blows my estimates out of the water. no telling if collinsville was a quick in and out visit( usually dealers discourage that in and out traffic, may have had to say awhile just to avoid that?) or it could have been an in and out trip, if so/later then my time line may not be too off. but if the dopeman made them stay and visit for a bit then yeah it may have been dark by the time the car was abandoned????

 

[Magdalyn]

ok nevermind ( i need to not post until i have coffee!!! LOL) owasso walgreens was at 535pm...THEN trip to collinsville, then the trip to drop jc off. so that blows my estimates out of the water. no telling if collinsville was a quick in and out visit( usually dealers discourage that in and out traffic, may have had to say awhile just to avoid that?) or it could have been an in and out trip, if so/later then my time line may not be too off. but if the dopeman made them stay and visit for a bit then yeah it may have been dark by the time the car was abandoned????

Hmmm. How do we really know for sure that Jarral left the Collinsville meth dealers house with JC? All we have is JC's word (relayed a month after the fact) and, well, the word of a meth dealer?

Again, both JC and the dealer/dealers could all be forthright and innocent of anything having to do with Jarral's disappearance.

But. It would benefit BOTH of those two parties if the story went, "He left Dealers house perfectly healthy, driving his own car (because if something BAD happened to him in front of me and I didn't report it, I'd look real bad), he was FINE when he dropped ME off, I called his phone(!), just check his phone records(!), neither I or the drug dealer know what happened after that!"

I'm not in that 'world' as it were, but I wouldn't think it'd be unheard of to have a run in or something go south at a dealer's house or directly after. Heck, there was just a case on Websleuths I followed of two teens who killed a girl for her BMX bike parts...

 

[Magdalyn]

Also, what day/time was the car called to be towed?

Perhaps it wasn't actually abandoned the night JC says it was, and was actually parked there the following morning. Or someone followed the driver that night, they parked it, then JC got in the following car and the driver dropped JC home.

I hate to keep harping on this JC fella, but so many of these cases I follow, last person to see him and all that...

 

[wfgodot]

Pardon me if I've missed this but was OSBI ever involved in the case?

 

[charok]

Also, what day/time was the car called to be towed?

Perhaps it wasn't actually abandoned the night JC says it was, and was actually parked there the following morning. Or someone followed the driver that night, they parked it, then JC got in the following car and the driver dropped JC home.

I hate to keep harping on this JC fella, but so many of these cases I follow, last person to see him and all that...

yup i know exactly what you are talking about in past cases, scott peterson last to see laci alive, casey anthony was the last one to see caylee alive,ect.. i could just go on and on. i'm not a LE of any kind but it's basic 101- focus your intrest on the last person who is know to see ( in this case jarral)

unclear what time of day the car was towed too..*morning? mid afternoon, early evening on 8-29-13...