OK - OU fraternity "SAE" sings racist chant on bus

[SeriouslySearching]

The chant should not have had to be "retired" -- the meaning was always derogatory, and was always clear, especially with its direct reference to lynching. It has nothing to do with "all colors." It is a slur against black people. Nothing mitigates that fact.

I lived in Oklahoma for 15 years, and am not surprised at all by the usage there -- the racism was alarming; and the apparent "shock" of some authorities has as much or more to do with the effect it might have on recruiting athletes for OU football as it does on matters of actual substance. The mask slipped a little; the chickens came home to roost.

Two decades ago the place where I lived had a "don't let the sun set on you here" billboard -- also featuring the 'n'-word -- on the outskirts of town. So the only shock I can register has to do with the fact that people seem so surprised at the existence of that chant at the most significant university in the state, the one held to be the more progressive of the two major state institutions.

I have lived in OK my entire life and have never seen a sign like the one you said existed only 2 decades ago. Where?! I have a really difficult time believing people let that stand without raising hell over it. I would have heard of such a sign existing in the area.

OU and OSU are absolutely not rampant with bigots/racists and neither is our state! The people putting a stop to it and raising awareness are from Oklahoma. The two ring leaders of the incident are not.

 

[tangelo]

have the families of any of the black students lynched by SAE for pledging them made any public comment?

 

[SStarr33]

Who? The racists or the protestors?

Both.

 

[Blondie in Spokane]

Oklahoma football team refuses to practice and instead holds silent arm-in-arm vigil while clad in black to protest racist fraternity chant

Oklahoma Sooners have declined to practice all week in protest of a video in which fraternity members make racist slurs and chant about lynchings

Coach Bob Stoops said in a statement that letting the world know the team's stance was more important than their day's practice

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...st-racist-fraternity-chant.html#ixzz3UE4iOG6a

 

[Hiandmighty]

They have some nerve.

I guess they have no plans of speaking out against violence against women.

 

[Nova]

The N word derives from the word for black in Dutch "neger" and in Spanish and Portuguese, "negro". It has never been an equal opportunity slur. It originated from slave traders to refer to their "cargo".



What's next, bonding over a good ol' fashioned lynching? Come on. Nonsense. First of all, if anyone tried to get me to chant something like that I would leave, even at 18. Second, this was no hazing exercise. These jerks had adopted the chant as their mantra and were gleefully and vigorously repeating it along with several of their sorority sisters. Disgusting.

I love Jon Stewart's response to this. Fox commentator's attitudes when black people may be victims or have done something wrong is "pull up your pants and take responsibility". But a white guy does something wrong against a black person and someone else made him do it!

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs...e-for-reaction-to-racist-fraternity-incident/

gitana1, I have agreed with you throughout this thread. I don't know why you suddenly think I'm spouting contrary "nonsense".

I thought I was pretty clear in my post that "group-think" is no excuse for such obnoxious behavior.

But that doesn't mean I'm wrong as to its purpose (however unconscious). Trust me, the misogynist chants and songs (at frats) far outnumber even the racist ones.

Other such "group bonding" tasks including climbing the local water tower, vandalizing the administration building, painting grafitti on the frat next door, stealing a rival school's mascot-statue and so forth. In each case, by joining together to do something forbidden, the group reinforces the idea that those who did the deed "belong" and everyone else is an outsider. Keeping the secret afterwards only strengthens the bond in the name of "trust".

The only way to end such episodes is to integrate such groups.

P.S. Although chanting when one thinks no outside will hear is a long way from lynching, they are not unrelated in motivation. Good (that is, "bad") example!

 

[Nova]

I have lived in OK my entire life and have never seen a sign like the one you said existed only 2 decades ago. Where?! I have a really difficult time believing people let that stand without raising hell over it. I would have heard of such a sign existing in the area.

OU and OSU are absolutely not rampant with bigots/racists and neither is our state! The people putting a stop to it and raising awareness are from Oklahoma. The two ring leaders of the incident are not.

I can't speak for Oklahoma, but there was such a sign at the entrance of Glendale, a suburb of LA, as recently as the 1960s. So 50 years, not 20.

 

[IzzyBlanche]

Oklahoma football team refuses to practice and instead holds silent arm-in-arm vigil while clad in black to protest racist fraternity chant

Oklahoma Sooners have declined to practice all week in protest of a video in which fraternity members make racist slurs and chant about lynchings

Coach Bob Stoops said in a statement that letting the world know the team's stance was more important than their day's practice

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...st-racist-fraternity-chant.html#ixzz3UE4iOG6a

The hypocrisy is obvious and disgusting. Oh well, football.

 

[SeriouslySearching]

They have some nerve.

I guess they have no plans of speaking out against violence against women.

I agree it does need to be addressed, but today is not the day, imo.

 

[IzzyBlanche]

I agree it does need to be addressed, but today is not the day, imo.

I don't agree.

I don't see much point in repeating what the writer I quote below said, so I'll just say I agree with him, and repeat that the university's actions in giving (football player) students who commit violent acts against women second chances while instantly expelling (non football-player) students for admittedly abhorrent, but still nonviolent, action, reeks of hypocrisy to me.

Either the student code of conduct, or whatever justification Boren gave for expelling the SAE students, applies to all students or it doesn't. If the frat boys are punished for using anti-black epithets, then football players should be punished for using anti-gay epithets.

From the article:

Less than a month ago they allowed Joe Mixon, a talented running back videotaped punching a female student in an off-campus bar, back onto the football team after a year long suspension just from the football team. Yep, Mixon punched a female student and was never even kicked off campus. The punch was so violent that his female victim, a Sooner student, suffered a fractured jaw, a broken cheek bone, a broken nose and a fractured orbital bone near her left eye. Oh, and Mixon also began the incident, according to the complaint, by directing a gay slur at the woman's male companion at the bar.

What did President David Boren say in that case?

"The judicial outcome and the video speak for themselves," Oklahoma President David L. Boren said. "The University is an educational institution, which always sets high standards that we hope will be upheld by our students. We hope that our students will all learn from those standards, but at the same time, we believe in second chances so that our students can learn and grow from life's experiences."

Oh, so the star running back gets a second chance for breaking four bones on a female student's face on video, but the guys in a frat don't get a second chance for saying something racist on a video?

Link to article: http://www.foxsports.com/college-fo...l-against-racism-weak-against-violence-031015

 

[IzzyBlanche]

And here's the justification:

Part of Boren's job is to build and maintain the university's reputation. And Mixon didn't affect that to any meaningful degree. The frat video did affect OU's reputation to a major degree. There are people all over America who now question whether the Norman campus is a racist place. That's a four-alarm fire to any school president.

Football player beating up on a woman? Nothing to see here, move along.

Video of drunken frat boys engaging in abhorrent speech? Now THAT might hurt the university's reputation.

Words fail me.

Link: http://newsok.com/should-joe-mixon-be-dragged-into-frat-video-mess/article/5400747

ETA: Oh, and frat boys? Generally don't publicly represent the university in the same way that athletes do, if ever. So a football player who punches a woman is still allowed to represent the university publicly by playing on the team, but the anonymous frat boy speaking racist talk who will never be seen publicly again has to go, because the latter might hurt the university's reputation while the former won't?

Am I losing my mind here or has day become night?

 

[SeriouslySearching]

I don't agree.

I don't see much point in repeating what the writer I quote below said, so I'll just say I agree with him, and repeat that the university's actions in giving (football player) students who commit violent acts against women second chances while instantly expelling (non football-player) students for admittedly abhorrent, but still nonviolent, action, reeks of hypocrisy to me.

Either the student code of conduct, or whatever justification Boren gave for expelling the SAE students, applies to all students or it doesn't. If the frat boys are punished for using anti-black epithets, then football players should be punished for using anti-gay epithets.

From the article:



Link to article: http://www.foxsports.com/college-fo...l-against-racism-weak-against-violence-031015

The issue today is racism on campus and includes the state. I am not getting drawn into the debate on Mixon at this point.

 

[IzzyBlanche]

Here is a good article which explains it instead of simply railing against OU football and University President Boren:

Joe Mixon keeps getting brought up in the Sigma Alpha Epsilon video mess. He's become a lightning rod for those who say David Boren is soft on violence against women but hard on free speech.

The irony is thick in a lot of places, starting with this. The people who say Mixon got a light sentence from the university -- a season's suspension from the football team, including practice and workouts -- are testifying against themselves. Mixon in many ways is serving a life sentence; perhaps not the length of his life, but the life of his OU career.

http://newsok.com/should-joe-mixon-be-dragged-into-frat-video-mess/article/5400747

The issue today is racism on campus and includes the state. I am not getting drawn into the debate on Mixon at this point.

Just FYI, I quoted the same article in my post under "here's the justification."

Assuming Mixon lives up to his potential and is drafted into the NFL with a multimillion dollar contract, that will be some punitive life sentence, all right. Oh, the horror.

Regarding today's issue as you've defined it, why isn't the fact that the two ringleaders captured on video and expelled grew up in Texas, not Oklahoma, being better publicized? (Question not directed at you, just jumping off from your post.)

 

[Trident]

And here's the justification:



Football player beating up on a woman? Nothing to see here, move along.

Video of drunken frat boys engaging in abhorrent speech? Now THAT might hurt the university's reputation.

Words fail me.

Link: http://newsok.com/should-joe-mixon-be-dragged-into-frat-video-mess/article/5400747

ETA: Oh, and frat boys? Generally don't publicly represent the university in the same way that athletes do, if ever. So a football player who punches a woman is still allowed to represent the university publicly by playing on the team, but the anonymous frat boy speaking racist talk who will never be seen publicly again has to go, because the latter might hurt the university's reputation while the former won't?

Am I losing my mind here or has day become night?

Day is BECOMING night, the same way CIVILIZATION is circling the bowl, faster and faster. The earth, and the people thereon, are in a time of flux/change. In my opinion this coming "change" will not be for the better.

 

[nrdsb4]

This is not free speech this is hate speech and public university or not there are conduct codes and rules.
If I was the parent of one of these children that would be it for his College on my dime. It is disgusting that anyone would think this was okay. Who are these people?!

As horrible as it is, hate speech is not illegal. When hate speech occurs during a crime, then additional penalties can be applied as it becomes a hate crime. But it is the crime which is illegal, not hate speech in and of itself.

What may make this stick if the students were to sue (and I don't believe they will) is not that their speech was racist or hate speech but that they have an implicit threat in the song which could create a "hostile environment" for other students.

In general, honor codes and such do not trump the constitution at public universities.

I've been reading a lot about this on legal forums, and the consensus is that OU president cannot make this about hate speech or racism or honor codes, it must be that these students were creating a reasonable fear among black men that they could be targets of violence.

 

[nrdsb4]

Regarding today's issue as you've defined it, why isn't the fact that the two ringleaders captured on video and expelled grew up in Texas, not Oklahoma, being better publicized? (Question not directed at you, just jumping off from your post.)

Every article I've read about these students in the past several days has stated that they are from Dallas.

 

[nrdsb4]

I think it is a good sign that there is so much white outrage at the song these idiots were singing.

However, as a mother of two college daughters, it frustrates me to no end that there seems to be so little outrage at the fact that college males can sing or rap to music which is misogynistic and frequently advocates violence towards women. Why is this not considered creating a hostile environment? Why is it not considered "hate speech"? Why are no students being expelled for singing these songs?

 

[SuzDuJour]

have the families of any of the black students lynched by SAE for pledging them made any public comment?

I'm going to guess that the dozens of drunken white boys on the bus singing about hanging black people probably sufficiently intimidated and created such a hostile environment, that silence ensued. I'm 66 years old, and I remember these killings in my lifetime. I remember signs directing 'coloreds' not to use bathrooms, drinking fountains or lunch counters. Your question shows a multitude of ignorance. I know, delete me, mods...

 

[tangelo]

I'm going to guess that the dozens of drunken white boys on the bus singing about hanging black people probably sufficiently intimidated and created such a hostile environment, that silence ensued. I'm 66 years old, and I remember these killings in my lifetime. I remember signs directing 'coloreds' not to use bathrooms, drinking fountains or lunch counters. Your question shows a multitude of ignorance. I know, delete me, mods...

great! could you provide a link to the SAE killings you claim to recall? how come silence didn't ensue with you?

you could be on a bus right now singing further hostile things directed at me, should I be concerned?

also, that Mixon guy was black

 

[sloane7777]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lynching_in_the_United_States


Here's a refresher for everyone who does not see the absolute horror of their words on that bus. Enough said. might google the word lynch and look at the pics also .....least we forget something so important.