OK OK - Rev. Carol Daniels, 61, Anadarko, 23 Aug 2009

[Suthrnqt]

In downtown Anadarko, a double dose of bad news
<sniped -from archives>http://lite.newsok.com/

Carolyn McBride, editor of The Anadarko Daily News, said she arrived at the fire about 5:30 a.m. Saturday. She and husband Joe McBride Jr., co-publishers, were just north of the newspaper building in a park near when she looked down and saw a gun.

* 'McBride said she flagged down a police officer, Sgt. Charles Pendarvis, and he took possession of the .38-caliber pistol. She said she does not think the gun had any relevance to the fire'.
Johnny Johnson and Robert Medley, Staff Writers

Quite a coinky dinky that a fire, discovery of a handgun and Pastor Daniels' murder all happened the same weekend.

 

[fred&edna]

I kind of got excited there for a minute, but then I realized I had gone through that before. My own opinion, fwiw, is that Renata has been suffering disorganized type mental disorder for a long time, and in my view, the killer of Ms. Carol Daniels is highly organized. Highly. He won't be killing any women in his house and then himself.

From what I read on the other thread, it seems Monet planned the murder of Karen Johnson. I agree it seems Bob/Renata was plagued by a mental disorder for many years but he was able to pen several published books/novels, make a living by traveling & selling the books, maintaining a (wacko) website, and plan murder... which leads me to believe he was organized and functional.

It doesn't really matter though I suppose, because as good as he possibly looks as Pastor Daniels killer, surely he must have been investigated and ruled out by the OSBI early on.

 

[Simply Caustic]

Found this in the Renata Monet thread...
Transgendered Person Slays Pastor, Satanic Manifesto Found - Page 2 - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community
Commenting on the possible connection between a Satanic Rap Group to the Farmville murders (which I'm unfamiliar with) and I've never heard of a Satanic Rap Group...wasn't there some band playing, metal band if I recall correctly, around the time of the Pastor Daniels murder?
But I thought it was interesting that Pastor Daniels wasn't the only case that had similarities/parallels to Renata. However, I would expect LE to have ruled Monet out, years ago...so I'm just tossing out some ideas.
Thanks for the bumping/activity on this thread. I would have never seen it, if it hadn't been at the top of the "recent posts".

Via Kindle, like a true Amazon junkie

 

[Foxfire]

Many folks have questioned why Pastor Carol Daniels' murderer wasn't witnessed leaving, by a pedestrian passing by, or someone driving by her Church that tragic day in August 2009. TexasLil sums it up pretty well in this quote below from 2011.
Imo, considering the window of time of the sadistic ritual crime. Most folks attending other Churches would have been attending their services.
Others, including law enforcement were likely taking a lazy day of rest, keeping a low profile, while preparing for the next work week..

Sundays are usually a very quiet day for law enforcement in small towns. Especially after the large all nighter structure fire at the bar, and the Anardarko Daily News exposure fire.. Law enforcement would have had to provide traffic control for the fire scene.. TexasLil describes Anardarko, OK as seeming like a ghost town..


<respectfully snipped & BBM for focus>

I was in Anadarko earlier this year visiting friends and decided to drive by where the church once stood. There was a small cross stuck in the dirt with some old faded flowers around it. I had hoped the memorial meant they would do something more in honor of this wonderful lady. I was very disappointed.

The streets of Anadarko are much different than when I lived there 20 years ago. They almost seem like a ghost town on Sunday morning. It's like everyone is locked up in their homes sleeping in. There is very little traffic seen going to church or moving about. A lot of restaurants are either closed on Sunday or only open a short time in the afternoon.

I share a theory with a good friend from Anadarko (and it's only a theory) that the Pastor found someone inside the church when she opened up on Sunday morning

I was really hoping with the DA at them time (Burns) was not re-elected to office that perhaps the case might get some attention again. I'm keeping my fingers crossed.

 

[shefner]

I am still reading this thread and every link you guys have provided. Surprised it has taken me a couple days...I was invited here from Holly Bobo's thread.

As a pastor's daughter and a pastor's wife, this case just stays on my mind. Praying for resolution....

 

[Foxfire]

I am still reading this thread and every link you guys have provided. Surprised it has taken me a couple days...I was invited here from Holly Bobo's thread.

As a pastor's daughter and a pastor's wife, this case just stays on my mind. Praying for resolution....

Welcome shefner.. Thanx for coming to Pastor Daniels' thread.. We could use all the help we can get to hopefully connect the dots and insure justice for PCD and her family. As a pastor's daughter, and a pastor's wife, your insight will be invaluable..
Even a petty thief would think twice before stealing from a Church, imo. To brutally murder a Pastor in her church in such a vicious manner, and then pose/stage her body in a crucifix position at the altar would take a very rare, brazen, and evil creature, imho...
Imo, these deviant acts were not committed to deflect or confuse investigators but to send a very clear and concise message to humanity..

 

[shefner]

One of my biggest questions is why was this pastor still traveling so far to go to this church. Apparently there were no services and no members that attended. Having spent all of my life in the clergy, I have never heard of anything like this. After all, telephones are readily available. If anyone needed to visit from the pastor, she could have come to see them on Saturday or Sunday without even attending to the decaying church.
Was she meeting someone there each week without it being known?

 

[shefner]

Welcome shefner.. Thanx for coming to Pastor Daniels' thread.. We could use all the help we can get to hopefully connect the dots and insure justice for PCD and her family. As a pastor's daughter, and a pastor's wife, your insight will be invaluable..
Even a petty thief would think twice before stealing from a Church, imo. To brutally murder a Pastor in her church in such a vicious manner, and then pose/stage her body in a crucifix position at the altar would take a very rare, brazen, and evil creature, imho...
Imo, these deviant acts were not committed to deflect or confuse investigators but to send a very clear and concise message to humanity..

Thanks for the welcome, Foxfire. Stealing from the church would not surprise me at all. This does happen. But most often at churches where there is something to steal. After all, this church had no regular services, no attending members to speak of, no offering being taken, and the building was not in the best condition. So what would there be to steal?

The day of Pastor's death, the couple came to visit at a very odd time for Sunday. At 11:20 am. Now most service start on the hour at 9, 10 or 11 am. But there were no services, right? So why would this couple be coming by the church? That whole thing seems strange to me.

I do not know of one clergy person who would drive 65 miles every week to sit in a church where there were never services and there were never members coming to attend services.

 

[Foxfire]

Thanks for the welcome, Foxfire. Stealing from the church would not surprise me at all. This does happen. But most often at churches where there is something to steal. After all, this church had no regular services, no attending members to speak of, no offering being taken, and the building was not in the best condition. So what would there be to steal?

The day of Pastor's death, the couple came to visit at a very odd time for Sunday. At 11:20 am. Now most service start on the hour at 9, 10 or 11 am. But there were no services, right? So why would this couple be coming by the church? That whole thing seems strange to me.

I do not know of one clergy person who would drive 65 miles every week to sit in a church where there were never services and there were never members coming to attend services.

Shefner, I was just using the petty thief scenario as an example.. It is obvious that the motive for Pastor Daniels' murder was not theft or robbery related.. PCD's ring, likely gold, imo, was not taken..
Many obvious statements were made by PCD's murderer; before, during, and after the crime, imo..

Shefner, the 11:20 am time is likely an approximate time, or they waited 5 minutes for her to answer the front door before checking the side door, or may have been 5 minutes late arriving..
The worship service times were clearly visible on the sign outside the Church. Keep reading you'll see it..

Shefner, only Pastor Daniel's' would have known the true reason she traveled the 60+ mile distance every Sunday, in the hopes of someone showing up, imo.. In the north GA mountains, we have Churches that only have services once a month by travelling preachers(& some bring snakes).

Circuit Riders - Horseback Preachers)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Circuit_rider_(religious)

 

[Foxfire]

I too think the hair was burned to get rid of evidence. The other thing the autopsy tells me is the ring with the clear stones turned palm side. Many women turn their rings to hide diamonds so the ring looks like a plain band when they think they are being robbed. Carol may have thought she was being robbed, makes me think it was a stranger who attacked her.

http://ftpcontent.worldnow.com/griffin/NEWSon6/PDF/1005/anadarkoautopsy.pdf

<BBM for focus>

Colette, I agree that PCD may have purposely turned her ring's stone settings palm down to hide their value from the perp, if the stones were diamonds. Due to the blood on her fingers and the weight of the stones, the ring may have ended up in this position during the attack, or during the posing/staging of her body..

The ring not being taken by the perp speaks volumes, imo.. Especially if PCD was wearing her less expensive silver hoop earrings, and they were taken by the perp..

 

[AQuestion]

The day of Pastor's death, the couple came to visit at a very odd time for Sunday. At 11:20 am. Now most service start on the hour at 9, 10 or 11 am. But there were no services, right? So why would this couple be coming by the church? That whole thing seems strange to me.

I do not know of one clergy person who would drive 65 miles every week to sit in a church where there were never services and there were never members coming to attend services.

Dear shefner,

Well, I preach and used to travel almost as far sometime not knowing if anyone would show up. To understand what Pastor Daniels was doing, we have to understand why she chose to preach at that church, they have others. She knew the two remaining members and they could not be counted on to drive into Oklahoma City. Maybe she figured she would bring others back to the church, it had been there awhile.

There are those of us who believe that property where a church has been dedicated is always dedicated. My church is currently working with a Methodist church to continue to utilize some property they have, they offered it to us and we are not Methodists. Non-denominational. They don't want to see property they bought to do the Lord's business used as a mini-mall or a massage parlor or whatever.

I want people to consider the following. One year after Pastor Daniels died, the church was leveled and nobody else came by to take care of it or offer services to the people of Anadarko. The denomination she belonged to gave up on Anadarko. There is a line in the bible, it says to walk into a town preaching the word and that if nobody responds, leave the town and shake the dust of the town off of your shoes (roughly).

A church is not a building, it is not a denomination, it is not a Pastor, it is a body of believers. That is what the bible says. As for the two members of the church, they knew the hours that Pastor Daniels would be there, they knew when she arrived and when she left. One of them called himself a Bishop of the church. She came on the chance that others would come and that is true faith, she didn't give up on that town or the people there.

 

[shefner]

Dear shefner,

Well, I preach and used to travel almost as far sometime not knowing if anyone would show up. To understand what Pastor Daniels was doing, we have to understand why she chose to preach at that church, they have others. She knew the two remaining members and they could not be counted on to drive into Oklahoma City. Maybe she figured she would bring others back to the church, it had been there awhile.

There are those of us who believe that property where a church has been dedicated is always dedicated. My church is currently working with a Methodist church to continue to utilize some property they have, they offered it to us and we are not Methodists. Non-denominational. They don't want to see property they bought to do the Lord's business used as a mini-mall or a massage parlor or whatever.

I want people to consider the following. One year after Pastor Daniels died, the church was leveled and nobody else came by to take care of it or offer services to the people of Anadarko. The denomination she belonged to gave up on Anadarko. There is a line in the bible, it says to walk into a town preaching the word and that if nobody responds, leave the town and shake the dust of the town off of your shoes (roughly).

A church is not a building, it is not a denomination, it is not a Pastor, it is a body of believers. That is what the bible says. As for the two members of the church, they knew the hours that Pastor Daniels would be there, they knew when she arrived and when she left. One of them called himself a Bishop of the church. She came on the chance that others would come and that is true faith, she didn't give up on that town or the people there.

You are so right, AQuestion...the church is a body of believers...the Body of Christ. And I can understand what you are saying about not giving up on the town or the people. I think Pastor Daniels had a good heart and obviously went out of her way to be at that church each week.

I live in a small southern town of about 5500 residents within our city limits. Our church may have 1,000 members but only have 400 attend at any one time. Sometimes, for certain events, we may only have 50-100 attend....so I can understand the importance of ministering to smaller groups and being available to meet people's needs.

I suppose I am straining to understand why Pastor would travel that far without having members or a service, per se. We are called to evangelize. Did Pastor Daniels visit in the community? Did she actively seek and invite people to come into the church for services? If so, she may have come into contact with the wrong person....offended him in some way. It is very easy to offend, especially in a ministerial role. Some people are offended before they even meet you, just because of the position you hold.

 

[shefner]

Shefner, I was just using the petty thief scenario as an example.. It is obvious that the motive for Pastor Daniels' murder was not theft or robbery related.. PCD's ring, likely gold, imo, was not taken..
Many obvious statements were made by PCD's murderer; before, during, and after the crime, imo..

Shefner, the 11:20 am time is likely an approximate time, or they waited 5 minutes for her to answer the front door before checking the side door, or may have been 5 minutes late arriving..
The worship service times were clearly visible on the sign outside the Church. Keep reading you'll see it..

Shefner, only Pastor Daniel's' would have known the true reason she traveled the 60+ mile distance every Sunday, in the hopes of someone showing up, imo.. In the north GA mountains, we have Churches that only have services once a month by travelling preachers(& some bring snakes).

Circuit Riders - Horseback Preachers)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Circuit_rider_(religious)

Foxfire, so sorry that I misread that part about theft. My brain goes into neutral sometimes these days!

If you are in the N GA mountains, then you are not too far from me....and yes, traveling preachers and snake handling preachers are not unheard of in these parts.

Can you remind me what denomination Pastor Daniels' church was a part of?

 

[Foxfire]

Foxfire, so sorry that I misread that part about theft. My brain goes into neutral sometimes these days!

If you are in the N GA mountains, then you are not too far from me....and yes, traveling preachers and snake handling preachers are not unheard of in these parts.

Can you remind me what denomination Pastor Daniels' church was a part of?

RE: north GA mtns; Big Canoe, Jasper, GA 30143
__________________________

Not sure shefner, maybe this link will help...

Christ Holy Sanctified Church in Anadarko, Oklahoma.

http://newsok.com/anadarkochurchkilling

 

[AQuestion]

I suppose I am straining to understand why Pastor would travel that far without having members or a service, per se. We are called to evangelize. Did Pastor Daniels visit in the community? Did she actively seek and invite people to come into the church for services? If so, she may have come into contact with the wrong person....offended him in some way. It is very easy to offend, especially in a ministerial role. Some people are offended before they even meet you, just because of the position you hold.

Dear shefner,

Pastor Daniels was not a member of an Evangelical church, they were Pentecostal. There are many types of churches and not all of them evangelize in the same manner. I previously linked to Pastor Daniels churches mission statement and history. It is worth a read.

One of the news interviews involved a group of Hispanics that she had helped out in the town and they talked about how she had given them some money to help them by. She kept the front door open for all to enter. We just don't know who may have visited her in the past.

Pastor Daniels has been a personal hero for me. I have a full time job and am paid well. I was tricked into preaching and have to be translated as it is a non-English speaking church. I don't get paid for preaching, it costs me money. With all the mega-churches that may be hard to understand, just like her traveling on the chance that people might show up. Pastor Daniels was willing to go if one person showed up and risked having days when nobody showed up. She remembered that where two or more are gathered in his name, there also is the Lord. It is possible that the mere fact that she would not give up on the town could have upset someone.

 

[smc1225]

You are so right, AQuestion...the church is a body of believers...the Body of Christ. And I can understand what you are saying about not giving up on the town or the people. I think Pastor Daniels had a good heart and obviously went out of her way to be at that church each week.

I live in a small southern town of about 5500 residents within our city limits. Our church may have 1,000 members but only have 400 attend at any one time. Sometimes, for certain events, we may only have 50-100 attend....so I can understand the importance of ministering to smaller groups and being available to meet people's needs.

I suppose I am straining to understand why Pastor would travel that far without having members or a service, per se. We are called to evangelize. Did Pastor Daniels visit in the community? Did she actively seek and invite people to come into the church for services? If so, she may have come into contact with the wrong person....offended him in some way. It is very easy to offend, especially in a ministerial role. Some people are offended before they even meet you, just because of the position you hold.

from an interview on 8/25/2009 - http://tinyurl.com/ot32qxe

Anadarko resident Kevin Cheadle, who attends St. Paul United Methodist Church, said Daniels sometimes visited that church and spoke. He said the last time she did so was in the spring, when she delivered a sermon on the Holy Spirit.

So it looks like she did go out in the community and did not just stay in her church.

 

[Canaille]

*sigh*

No disrespect intended to the victim and her family, but my husband sure doesn't need me getting involved in another case here on WS.

I'm only on page 3 of this and have read the last page. So, forgive me if this has been discussed because I'm sure it has... I just need to get this thought out of my head, as I don't think my husband will want to discuss it with me.

In my opinion, someone who took the effort to spray around the body to destroy evidence/DNA either already has their DNA on file due to previous crimes, or is a public figure in that area. Possibly someone in a trusted position. People near the church at the time of the crime might not have given a second thought to a police cruiser in the area. They might have thought it was in response to the crime.

Also, her clothes may have been removed as a reenactment or mockery of Christ's crucifixion. He was stripped of his clothes.

Now, I would like to respectfully request that *someone* please give me a condensed version of this case...*someone* as in the one who mentioned this case in the Heather Elvis forums asking that we take some time to visit this case...

You know who you are :seeya:

 

[Canaille]

A few more thoughts now that I've read most of this.

The perp likely, IMO, grabbed her by her hair to slit her throat. That may be the reason for burning the hair... To remove his DNA from the portion of hair which he grabbed. (I haven't read the autopsy report yet, if it's still accessible.)

I keep coming across only one specific photo of her that has been included in news reports, etc. I find that she looks very uncomfortable in that photo. Something about her eyes. Who is in the photo with her? All that I've seen is the arm over and a hand on her shoulder. I haven't taken time yet to see if a full version of that photo exists.

Now, I'm going to struggle through wording this thought...all my opinion only. If she and the other pastors of her denomination strongly preached against homosexuality, fornication, etc., and IF a male pastor affiliated with the church was involved in the "down low", could she have become aware of it and tried to counsel that person? And could that person have felt threatened about her potentially outing him, thereby enraging him?

That same thought applies to my opinion if it were a well known member of the town (i.e. public official, LE,). One of the reasons I think of a member of LE or former member of LE is because they know the town drunks, they likely would not be considered suspicious if they are so close by and patrol the area. If she was a large woman, then the perp would have likely been larger than she and stronger.

Not likely, but yet another random thought of mine... The perp could have also been wearing hunting clothes at the time of the murder and then removed them. If married, his reasoning to his wife could be that the blood was from a deer, for example.

Ok, I'm done thinking for now.

 

[smc1225]

A few more thoughts now that I've read most of this.

The perp likely, IMO, grabbed her by her hair to slit her throat. That may be the reason for burning the hair... To remove his DNA from the portion of hair which he grabbed. (I haven't read the autopsy report yet, if it's still accessible.)

I keep coming across only one specific photo of her that has been included in news reports, etc. I find that she looks very uncomfortable in that photo. Something about her eyes. Who is in the photo with her? All that I've seen is the arm over and a hand on her shoulder. I haven't taken time yet to see if a full version of that photo exists.

Now, I'm going to struggle through wording this thought...all my opinion only. If she and the other pastors of her denomination strongly preached against homosexuality, fornication, etc., and IF a male pastor affiliated with the church was involved in the "down low", could she have become aware of it and tried to counsel that person? And could that person have felt threatened about her potentially outing him, thereby enraging him?

That same thought applies to my opinion if it were a well known member of the town (i.e. public official, LE,). One of the reasons I think of a member of LE or former member of LE is because they know the town drunks, they likely would not be considered suspicious if they are so close by and patrol the area. If she was a large woman, then the perp would have likely been larger than she and stronger.

Not likely, but yet another random thought of mine... The perp could have also been wearing hunting clothes at the time of the murder and then removed them. If married, his reasoning to his wife could be that the blood was from a deer, for example.

Ok, I'm done thinking for now.

That makes sense about the burning of her hair.

The autoposy report is still online here.

http://tinyurl.com/muuztje

 

[Foxfire]

*sigh*

No disrespect intended to the victim and her family, but my husband sure doesn't need me getting involved in another case here on WS.

I'm only on page 3 of this and have read the last page. So, forgive me if this has been discussed because I'm sure it has... I just need to get this thought out of my head, as I don't think my husband will want to discuss it with me.

In my opinion, someone who took the effort to spray around the body to destroy evidence/DNA either already has their DNA on file due to previous crimes, or is a public figure in that area. Possibly someone in a trusted position. People near the church at the time of the crime might not have given a second thought to a police cruiser in the area. They might have thought it was in response to the crime.

Also, her clothes may have been removed as a reenactment or mockery of Christ's crucifixion. He was stripped of his clothes.

Now, I would like to respectfully request that *someone* please give me a condensed version of this case...*someone* as in the one who mentioned this case in the Heather Elvis forums asking that we take some time to visit this case...

You know who you are :seeya:

Yep Busted, Canaille..
Still need a condensed version?

Wish that I could, Canaille, but the Pastor Carol Daniels ritualistic murder, is much too complicated to condense, imo. I normally only follow cases where psychopathic sexual predators are indicated.. These psychopathic predators leave residue that seem very obvious to me.

This ability/gift/curse was acquired by researching and backtracking the past of a very intelligent, evil, cagey, and meticulous malignant sexual predator/serial killer over six years ago. This 61 year old predator; active for four decades that will remain nameless for now, was a Stealth Predator Emulator; a copycat of many other serial killers prior, with an evil twist of his own thrown in for deflection and to add confusion for FBI BAU2 Profilers and VICAP, due to the lack of an identifiable pattern. Emulators are very rare, meticulous, and have no victim profile, MO, known motives, or geographical boundaries.. They are very forensically aware and are also aware of investigative strategies, SOPs, technology, etc..

Imo, PCD's ritualistic murder was carried out by an artist. Sometimes Life imitates Art. A very bleak and dark portrait has been painted portraying the very rare brazened and escalated Emulator responsible for Pastor Carol Daniel's tragic fate, imo.

Imo, Stealth Predator and malignant Emulator Israel Keyes; the Angel of Death, is portrayed in this portrait...

_________________________

Imo, the primary motive for razing Pastor Carol Daniel's Church wasn't only to build
a memorial in her honor, but to remove the lingering dark cloud of evil aura residue left behind in his wake...