OK OK - Rev. Carol Daniels, 61, Anadarko, 23 Aug 2009

[Ruflossn]

thulsalive~
This is beyond helpful. Thank-you very much for taking the time to map out the important structures. It looks like the perp could have easily travelled up to back street, entered the church from the side and then made a quick get away the same way.

 

[gxm]

It sounds like LE suspects the perp entered the back door (removed as evidence) so I'm thinking this was premeditated since the perp knew to lock the front door (which she kept open for parishioners). It seems to me that he knew her habits and accounted for them.

Such a horrible crime. I hope they catch the perp soon. He needs to be off the street, fast.

 

[thulsalive]

I am leaning more towards thinking that the perp probably drove to and from the general area. The alleyway provides access and l.e. took the back door as has been pointed out. Plus the store next door had a surveillance photo of the Rev's car, which was how they knew when she arrived.

 

[Ruflossn]

I am leaning more towards thinking that the perp probably drove to and from the general area. The alleyway provides access and l.e. took the back door as has been pointed out. Plus the store next door had a surveillance photo of the Rev's car, which was how they knew when she arrived.

My thoughts exactly.

 

[Ruflossn]

Here is a snippet and link to the profile that was complied by Pat Brown ~


Criminal Profiler Pat Brown on the Carol Daniels Murder Case
http://blogs.discovery.com/criminal_report/2009/09/pat-brown-carol-daniels.html#more


In an effort to catch the killer, Brown says that it is of the utmost importance to look at the victim's lifestyle, personal and business relationships and her daily routine.

"Victimology must be done," Brown said. "Who is this pastor? Who does she know? What is her routine? Who came to her church? Did she carry money? Did she help drug users and homeless men? What kind of people were in the area and who did she serve?"


There is, however, one aspect of the crime that Brown finds of particular interest.

"The most outstanding detail of this crime is the liquid sprayed around the victim," she said. "Police said it was to destroy evidence. I don't know what that liquid was, but I would like to know if it was something found in the building or whether the killer had to bring it along or run out and get it and bring it back. If this is truly liquid that can be used for destroying evidence, some kind of solvent, or a liquid that can be used to start a fire, we are not talking about a homeless guy wandering off the street and fighting with the pastor for a dollar. That type doesn't usually remove clothing, display bodies in odd positions (if her body was staged) and try to destroy evidence."

 

[SeriouslySearching]

I think I will jump the gun on Pat and put up my take on the case that I did on the 30th.:

Something tells me that he is a stranger. I could be wrong, but it was my initial feeling when I saw this case. He went to great lengths to conceal his identity and to me it says he was confident about several things.

1) He took the time to rape (not saying it is certain as they have not said this), possibly torture, kill her, position her, and it would be my guess he staged the scene in other ways so he was comfortable about not getting caught. He even took time to lock the door meaning he was methodical.

2) His method of destroying DNA didn't come from watching CSI, imo. He researched it or had some prior knowledge. This isn't some homeless guy from the alley. (If he got the cleaning solution there...it took even more time to locate it.)

3) Leaving her nude body to be found was for humiliation, but it was also to send a message. Since she wore clothes specific to a Priest/Pastor, it means she was literally "defrocked" in her own church. The ultimate humiliation combined with the ultimate sacrifice.

4) I think this has less to do with religion and more to do with power. I don't see him as an anti-religious nut or angry with God type of thing. I see it as he wants people to be afraid which is why he struck in one of the most vulnerable places...a church. She was a woman in power and this was another reason, imo. I think she was gaining recognition in the community and could be how he became aware of her.

5) He must have known her schedule to be so confident about taking his time. If he had been watching her then it would indicate he had been in the area before on several occasions or lives within close range.

6) IMO, he was too comfortable in broad daylight with a limited way to escape which to me means this is may not be his first victim. It doesn't appear this guy was too concerned.

7) While taking the clothes could be for trophies, I believe it goes back to his knowledge of evidence. He took great pains to hide his identity. I would say he came prepared.

8) Not a random or opportunistic killing. She was targeted, but was not a Hate crime due to religion or race, imo.

 

[SeriouslySearching]

Welcome to WS, Thulsalive~ Thanks for the great input and the maps. I live in Oklahoma, but don't think I have ever been to Anadarko. It sure helps to have someone familiar with the area and the people here.

 

[Trino]

I think I will jump the gun on Pat and put up my take on the case that I did on the 30th.:

Something tells me that he is a stranger. I could be wrong, but it was my initial feeling when I saw this case. He went to great lengths to conceal his identity and to me it says he was confident about several things.

1) He took the time to rape (not saying it is certain as they have not said this), possibly torture, kill her, position her, and it would be my guess he staged the scene in other ways so he was comfortable about not getting caught. He even took time to lock the door meaning he was methodical.

2) His method of destroying DNA didn't come from watching CSI, imo. He researched it or had some prior knowledge. This isn't some homeless guy from the alley. (If he got the cleaning solution there...it took even more time to locate it.)

3) Leaving her nude body to be found was for humiliation, but it was also to send a message. Since she wore clothes specific to a Priest/Pastor, it means she was literally "defrocked" in her own church. The ultimate humiliation combined with the ultimate sacrifice.

4) I think this has less to do with religion and more to do with power. I don't see him as an anti-religious nut or angry with God type of thing. I see it as he wants people to be afraid which is why he struck in one of the most vulnerable places...a church. She was a woman in power and this was another reason, imo. I think she was gaining recognition in the community and could be how he became aware of her.

5) He must have known her schedule to be so confident about taking his time. If he had been watching her then it would indicate he had been in the area before on several occasions or lives within close range.

6) IMO, he was too comfortable in broad daylight with a limited way to escape which to me means this is may not be his first victim. It doesn't appear this guy was too concerned.

7) While taking the clothes could be for trophies, I believe it goes back to his knowledge of evidence. He took great pains to hide his identity. I would say he came prepared.

8) Not a random or opportunistic killing. She was targeted, but was not a Hate crime due to religion or race, imo.

I agree with everything you've posted. I wonder if he's out of the area and had been watching her for an extended time, maybe having prior contact with her in her home town.

 

[madeleine]

http://newsok.com/anadarko-inquiry-into-pastors-death-continues/article/3397788

ANADARKO — Investigators have searched the living quarters of a man who said he saw the Rev. Carol Daniels’ killer, interviewed at least one convicted felon and are looking to question another felon with Caddo County ties as the quest continues to make an arrest in the Aug. 23 homicide.

Robert Richardson — a local drifter who goes by the nickname "Florida Kid” — said he told police he saw the killer exit the Christ Holy Sanctified Church as he drank a beer across the street at a grungy car wash where he sometimes lives.

"Suddenly, I looked up and saw this man leaving the church all covered in blood,” said Richardson, who sometimes sleeps in the equipment room of the car wash and sometimes beds in a nearby garage. "I was shocked. He was a big guy ... black, bald head, and he was carrying a knife. He turned (north along Broadway Avenue), though, so I didn’t get a good look at his face. I think he was wearing some sort of overalls, but to be honest, I couldn’t really tell.”

 

[gaia227]

Hmmmm - I think LE needs to look in Robert Richardson pretty hard. He hangs out in the area, he sees the comings and goings at the church, he was drinking beer in the middle of the afternoon (nothing wrong with that but gives impression he might be a pretty bad drunk), and he waited to tell LE he just happened to see some guy walking around all covered in blood carrying a knife. The man he is describing is a black male with a bald head which just seems a little too stereotypical.

 

[thulsalive]

These are good observations from everyone.

The "florida kids" story is a bit suspicious to me.

If you look at Photo 2, you can see the car wash a little to the south of the church and on the opposite side of the street. It is bisected by Market Street and the highway number 281 is marked slightly below it.

On Photo 2, you can also see Washington Avewhich is the street immediately north of the Church. Across Washington Ave you can see the beginning of a parking lot. This is the parking lot for a large convenient store. It has a gas station and serves meals. There used to be another gas station directly across the street but I'm not sure if its still there. The point is, that store is the only source of gas and packaged food on that side of the tracks. In fact, it might be the only source of gas north of Central blvd (marked in yellow on Photo 1) As such, it is a very busy spot.

If a bald headed black man had walked out of the church and to the north, he would have walked directly into that parking lot, unless he slipped between the houses before hitting Washington Street.

Almost all of those in Anadarko deemed "homeless" are not technically homeless. They are adults who live with family members but are usually unemployed and suffer from alcoholism. They walk the streets panhandling or looking for others who might have alcohol on them. They usually drink in areas where they are not likely to be seen and arrested, as public intoxication is an arrestable offense.

The drifter in the article is the rare individual who seems to have no family in the town.

 

[SeriouslySearching]

http://newsok.com/anadarko-inquiry-into-pastors-death-continues/article/3397788

ANADARKO — Investigators have searched the living quarters of a man who said he saw the Rev. Carol Daniels’ killer, interviewed at least one convicted felon and are looking to question another felon with Caddo County ties as the quest continues to make an arrest in the Aug. 23 homicide.

Robert Richardson — a local drifter who goes by the nickname "Florida Kid” — said he told police he saw the killer exit the Christ Holy Sanctified Church as he drank a beer across the street at a grungy car wash where he sometimes lives.

"Suddenly, I looked up and saw this man leaving the church all covered in blood,” said Richardson, who sometimes sleeps in the equipment room of the car wash and sometimes beds in a nearby garage. "I was shocked. He was a big guy ... black, bald head, and he was carrying a knife. He turned (north along Broadway Avenue), though, so I didn’t get a good look at his face. I think he was wearing some sort of overalls, but to be honest, I couldn’t really tell.”

Hmmm...according to the map...Broadway runs E-W and is South of the church. (Would a car wash equipment room would have solvent?) My guess is he would drive North up NE 1st Street and out on Hiway 281 to avoid being seen by as many people as possible. This could put his car either on Washington or Kansas for a quick exit if he had a car because he could live very near the church and went home on foot.

I would believe the story of the overalls or some type of one piece jumpsuit. I think he came prepared and this would fit with him being able to toss the bloody clothes quickly. While the description seems stereotypical...it fits with what I am thinking, but I could be way off. Bald would fit with him not leaving evidence tho.

A drifter is not as inclined to go to LE with information because they realize cops may not believe them and have probably had some unfortunate run-ins with them from time to time for public intox. They will take a hard look at him because if they did not find a murder weapon it would be of great interest to them that he knew the information.

 

[JoeFromLB]

The description Richardson gave of the killer as a "big guy" makes sense. He would have had to be very strong in order to overpower Pastor Daniels, who was a rather large woman herself. There were signs of a fierce struggle, according to the ME. He inflicted many terrible wounds on her, deep gashes which would require considerable strength and endurance. A killing like this one is strenuous business, especially if the vicitim is desperately fighting back.

If Richardson happens to be slightly built, I would have a lot of doubt from a physical standpoint that he could have done this.

This doesn't seem like the work of an alcoholic drifter drinking beer on the street corner. This killer was a sober man in full control of his faculties, possessing tremendous strength and energy, and with a mission to destroy. A horrible and sadistic monster.

 

[Ruflossn]

The description Richardson gave of the killer as a "big guy" makes sense. He would have had to be very strong in order to overpower Pastor Daniels, who was a rather large woman herself. There were signs of a fierce struggle, according to the ME. He inflicted many terrible wounds on her, deep gashes which would require considerable strength and endurance. A killing like this one is strenuous business, especially if the vicitim is desperately fighting back.

If Richardson happens to be slightly built, I would have a lot of doubt from a physical standpoint that he could have done this.

This doesn't seem like the work of an alcoholic drifter drinking beer on the street corner. This killer was a sober man in full control of his faculties, possessing tremendous strength and energy, and with a mission to destroy. A horrible and sadistic monster.

The bolded area is by me. I agree with your statement. The person who committed this crime was not drunk.

The person I think deserves a closer look is the man referenced in the article, M. Hinton, Jr. His mother died in December, his mother was a very close friend of Ms. Daniels, his mother was a founding member of the church Mr. Hinton has a past conviction of a violent, sexual crime. There are some very strange twists that involve Mr. Hinton and this crime. Possibly just a strange coincidence but, at this point, who knows?

The person that killed Ms. Daniels was angry. Very angry. I would like to know exactly where Mr. Hinton was the day and time that Ms. Daniels was murdered. Did Ms. Daniels receieve any jewelry or anything of value when Mrs. Hinton passed away? Was Mr. Hinton angry that his mother (possibly) donated her estate to the church? The victimology surrounding Ms. Daniels is of the upmost importance. It will give LE a huge boost in this case. They just need time and perseverance to put all the puzzle pieces together.

 

[madeleine]

The bolded area is by me. I agree with your statement. The person who committed this crime was not drunk.

The person I think deserves a closer look is the man referenced in the article, M. Hinton, Jr. His mother died in December, his mother was a very close friend of Ms. Daniels, his mother was a founding member of the church Mr. Hinton has a past conviction of a violent, sexual crime. There are some very strange twists that involve Mr. Hinton and this crime. Possibly just a strange coincidence but, at this point, who knows?

The person that killed Ms. Daniels was angry. Very angry. I would like to know exactly where Mr. Hinton was the day and time that Ms. Daniels was murdered. Did Ms. Daniels receieve any jewelry or anything of value when Mrs. Hinton passed away? Was Mr. Hinton angry that his mother (possibly) donated her estate to the church? The victimology surrounding Ms. Daniels is of the upmost importance. It will give LE a huge boost in this case. They just need time and perseverance to put all the puzzle pieces together.

@bold
very interesting idea.Maybe he (and I am not saying Hinton yet,but whoever did this) thought that she as a pastor was even manipulating people into things like donating,etc.God knows......sick crime anyway and yeah I think it was a rage attack and it was something personal.

 

[thulsalive]

The 7 block square area behind the church--From Market Street north to Kansas and Ne 1st east to East 7th--has to be at least 90-95% African American.

 

[Ruflossn]

Below is a link to a video of the witness that claims to have seen a man leaving the church at the time of Pastor Daniel's death.

Notes of interest:
The witness states the man left out the front door.
The man was wearing a mask similiar to a ski mask.

If the man left out the front door ~ How did the front door get locked? IIRC, the couple that was going to Sunday school found the front door locked.

Ski mask ~ Would this indicate he knew Ms. Daniels? Maybe his intention was not to murder her? Why wear a mask if he was going with the intention of murdering her? Perhaps he was there to rob her? She fought back, he lost his temper and things escalated into murder? Disorganized offenders are known to "snap".

I have no idea if the above theories are any where near the truth, I am simply brain storming.

http://www.koco.com/video/20713520/index.html

 

[Trino]

The bolded area is by me. I agree with your statement. The person who committed this crime was not drunk.

The person I think deserves a closer look is the man referenced in the article, M. Hinton, Jr. His mother died in December, his mother was a very close friend of Ms. Daniels, his mother was a founding member of the church Mr. Hinton has a past conviction of a violent, sexual crime. There are some very strange twists that involve Mr. Hinton and this crime. Possibly just a strange coincidence but, at this point, who knows?

The person that killed Ms. Daniels was angry. Very angry. I would like to know exactly where Mr. Hinton was the day and time that Ms. Daniels was murdered. Did Ms. Daniels receieve any jewelry or anything of value when Mrs. Hinton passed away? Was Mr. Hinton angry that his mother (possibly) donated her estate to the church? The victimology surrounding Ms. Daniels is of the upmost importance. It will give LE a huge boost in this case. They just need time and perseverance to put all the puzzle pieces together.

Who is Mr. Hinton?

 

[Ruflossn]

Who is Mr. Hinton?

Sorry Trino.
Mr. Hinton is a man that is referenced in the article that is linked on page 2 of this thread. Here is a snippet of the article with the link.

http://newsok.com/anadarko-inquiry-into-pastors-death-continues/article/3397788

Neuman confirmed investigators are trying to find convicted felon Michael Hinton Jr., who grew up in the neighborhood where Danies was killed.

"He’s one of about 50 people we’re looking to talk to,” Neuman said. "I wouldn’t rank him any higher than anyone else.”

Hinton was charged along with Lawrence Nuckols Jr. in Caddo County in June 1980 with the first-degree rape of a female younger than 14, according to county court records. Hinton served nearly 14 years in prison for kidnapping the girl. Nuckols received 10 years on a conviction for the rape charge, county records show.

Hinton, 54, is the son of Mildred Hinton — a close friend of Daniels and a Christ Holy Sanctified Church founding member. Mildred Hinton died in December.

 

[colette]

I thought the guy in the car wash said he saw a "big bald guy" with blood on him holding a knife. Now I'm reading he says the man had a ski mask on. It really can be both unless he saw him take his mask off, but i haven't heard that one yet.

http://www.newson6.com/Global/story.asp?S=11044547