OK - Terence Crutcher, 40, fatally shot by Tulsa PD officer, 16 Sept 2016

[JeannaT]

If there's video available from the first minutes (and there should be, as it looked like there were several LEO's already on the scene and the helicopter had been there a while), the Tulsa PD should release it. They haven't.

I get the impression there isn't video until the helicopter and second cop car arrived. I don't know if all cop cars are equipped with them in Tulsa.

Considering they did release the very damning video (and audio) from the helicopter and second cop car, it seems if they had earlier video - that would surely be less damning since he wasn't tased and shot in it - they would release that also.

 

[JeannaT]

I can confirm what you said is possible when a vehicle stalls. When I was younger I had a Toyota that had recently received a new battery. The battery was held in place with a bungee cord. I guess whoever replaced the battery didn't put the bungee cord on correctly and one day when I was taking a turn the battery moved and the connection was lost. This caused everything on my car to turn off including power steering and I was able to sort of pull over but it was extremely difficult to steer. I could easily see somebody being confused when this happens and not being able to get their car off the road in time. If you lose power steering in an SUV (like TC's) I imagine it would be even harder to steer than my car was because of the heavier tires and vehicle on the SUV.

I wonder if forensics are being done on that drivability of the SUV.

 

[ZooSleuth]

Why did he deserve to be tasered? He was outnumbered, unarmed and unable to escape. I can't imagine what he might have done or said at that moment that justified what the officers did to him.

The video starts with him walking slowly on the road, surrounded, with his arms in the air. Obviously cooperative and doing exactly what we are told to do. He is visible doing this from the dashcam and from the helicopter.

IMO the taser may have been warranted IF he put his hands down before he was tased because they didn't know at that point that he was unarmed. It's hard to say what was warranted without knowing exactly what transpired before he started walking towards his vehicle with his hands up (and I'm not going to take the police's word for it on this one). That being said, shooting him was absolutely unwarranted.

 

[ZooSleuth]

I wonder if forensics are being done on that drivability of the SUV.

FWIW, his sister or another relative did mention that they were aware he was having vehicle issues prior to the incident. A thorough investigation would look into why his car ended up stopped in the middle of the road. The only reason not related to vehicle issues I can think of for why his car ended up there is that he was on drugs, and nothing about his behavior from the videos would lead me to believe that was the case.

 

[JeannaT]

FWIW, his sister or another relative did mention that they were aware he was having vehicle issues prior to the incident. A thorough investigation would look into why his car ended up stopped in the middle of the road. The only reason not related to vehicle issues I can think of for why his car ended up there is that he was on drugs, and nothing about his behavior from the videos would lead me to believe that was the case.

You only saw 20+ seconds of video, though. The earlier 911 call indicated he was behaving "erratically" and his behavior required a backup call from the arriving first crew of officers.

And although you can't tell necessarily, he was apparently still not compliant with the verbal commands. He was asked to get on the ground and kept walking around, and finally dropped his hands. It could easily have appeared he was going into the car although we know now the window was up.

 

[bluesneakers]

FWIW, his sister or another relative did mention that they were aware he was having vehicle issues prior to the incident. A thorough investigation would look into why his car ended up stopped in the middle of the road. The only reason not related to vehicle issues I can think of for why his car ended up there is that he was on drugs, and nothing about his behavior from the videos would lead me to believe that was the case.

I thought of drugs or a medical emergency as possibilities, but like you I saw nothing in the videos suggesting either.

 

[bluesneakers]

IMO the taser may have been warranted IF he put his hands down before he was tased because they didn't know at that point that he was unarmed. It's hard to say what was warranted without knowing exactly what transpired before he started walking towards his vehicle with his hands up (and I'm not going to take the police's word for it on this one). That being said, shooting him was absolutely unwarranted.

I see what you mean but I can't get past how many of them were surrounding him. Even if he had a weapon would he have been able to get to it?

JMO and of course, though a taser is painful he would have survived.

 

[ZooSleuth]

You only saw 20+ seconds of video, though. The earlier 911 call indicated he was behaving "erratically" and his behavior required a backup call from the arriving first crew of officers.

And although you can't tell necessarily, he was apparently still not compliant with the verbal commands. He was asked to get on the ground and kept walking around, and finally dropped his hands. It could easily have appeared he was going into the car although we know now the window was up.

Possible scenario: His "erratic" behavior could have been simply due to his car being stuck in the middle of the road and he didn't know what the heck to do since other cars were obviously traveling that road. So then a cop rolls up and starts barking orders at him (gun possibly drawn) and telling him to get on the ground and in his mind he was just having car troubles and should not be subject to being frisked and treated like a criminal from the point of first contact (which is reasonable IMO). Cop calls for backup and when it arrives the situation we saw on the video happens.

 

[ZooSleuth]

Terence Crutcher slaying: Police address concerns raised by chatter in chopper video

“Looks like a bad dude, too,” according to chatter between the two officers heard on the helicopter’s video. “Could be on something.”
Tuell said David Shelby wasn’t the officer who commented on Crutcher’s appearance. He also added that the remark wasn’t heard by Betty Shelby because it wasn’t uttered over radio communications.“I know (the officer) wasn’t saying it facetiously,” Tuell said. “(Crutcher) appeared from the helicopter to be much larger than (Betty Shelby).”

BBM I'm sorry but that explanation makes zero sense and is a weak attempt at deflecting an obviously racist statement. I don't know anybody, let alone a cop, that refers to people as a "bad dude" based on their size.

 

[popsicle]

[h=1][FONT=&quot]Police say PCP found in vehicle occupied by Terence Crutcher on Friday[/FONT][/h]
[FONT=&quot]Homicide Sgt. Dave Walker declined to say where in the vehicle investigators recovered the vial of PCP, nor did he say whether officers determined Crutcher, 40, used it Friday night, when he was fatally shot by Officer Betty Shelby at 36th Street North and Lewis Avenue at about 7:45 p.m.[/FONT]

 

[bluesneakers]

BBM I'm sorry but that explanation makes zero sense and is a weak attempt at deflecting an obviously racist statement. I don't know anybody, let alone a cop, that refers to people as a "bad dude" based on their size.

I know. It would have been better to not say anything at all than to tell us we didn't hear what we heard.

 

[Yvettea]

Deleted - already posted

 

[Betty P]

[h=1][FONT="]Police say PCP found in vehicle occupied by Terence Crutcher on Friday[/FONT][/COLOR][/URL][/h]
[FONT="]Homicide Sgt. Dave Walker declined to say where in the vehicle investigators recovered the vial of PCP, nor did he say whether officers determined Crutcher, 40, used it Friday night, when he was fatally shot by Officer Betty Shelby at 36th Street North and Lewis Avenue at about 7:45 p.m.[/FONT]

And they're just now bringing this information forward? The police have already lied about the details of this case. They're facing some legal challenges ahead and may lose income. I don't believe anything they say right now.

FBI and DOJ need to investigate. I'm glad the family has hired their own investigator for this case.

 

[animlzrule]

From ABC:

Before the video of the incident was made public on Monday, police spokeswoman Jeanne MacKenzie told reporters that Crutcher "refused to follow commands given by the officers."She added, "They continued to talk to him. He continued not to listen and follow any commands. As they got closer to the vehicle, he reached inside the vehicle, and at that time there was a Taser deployment, and a short time later there was one shot fired.

https://www.google.com/amp/abcnews....ulsa-oklahoma/story?id=42217812?client=safari

BBM "Police spokeswoman." Uh huh. HOW MANY kills is it going to take before it is acknowledged that the police cannot be trusted to police themselves or run their own investigations following police shootings of civilians??? This is INSANE that they're getting away with this time and time again. And for those who think the remedy lies in "improved police training", this is EXACTLY the outcome for which they are training! Police protect themselves first, at any cost--the days of accepting personal risk inherent in police work are over. The police know that first and foremost their job is to come back alive after a shift. Anything happening out in the field will be covered up to the officer's benefit. For anyone interested in this issue of policing in black America, I suggest you follow Gene Demby from NPR on Twitter, handle @GeeDee215. Extremely intelligent analysis of race in this country, including this latest murder of a civilian.

 

[JeannaT]

BBM I'm sorry but that explanation makes zero sense and is a weak attempt at deflecting an obviously racist statement. I don't know anybody, let alone a cop, that refers to people as a "bad dude" based on their size.

I don't see how that's "racist". It is certainly making a judgement based on the size and apparent refusal to cooperate - but I don't think calling someone a "bad dude" is something that indicates the person is Black. You can make snap judgement about a person by their appearance that don't involve the racial component of their appearance. And yes, to me, he DOES look like a "bad dude". He's not cooperating and he's a very large man.

 

[Betty P]

I know. It would have been better to not say anything at all than to tell us we didn't hear what we heard.

Tulsa has a long history of violent racism, going back to the 1921 riots in which white citizens burned and looted the black community of Greenwood, killing 300 people, mostly black. It destroyed over 35 blocks of homes and businesses through attacks from the ground and the air, leaving over 10,000 people homeless. Planes flew over the community and dropped flaming balls of turpentine on the buildings below. It was discovered later that the city had conspired with the white mob to destroy the town.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tulsa_race_riot

 

[bluesneakers]

And they're just now bringing this information forward? The police have already lied about the details of this case. They're facing some legal challenges ahead and may lose income. I don't believe anything they say right now.

FBI and DOJ need to investigate. I'm glad the family has hired their own investigator for this case.

I'm glad they did too, and they did it so quickly.

Also...

Federal prosecutors said Monday that the FBI and the Department of Justice's civil rights division will conduct separate investigations into Friday's shooting. Jordan, the police chief, had asked the Justice Department to help Tulsa police with the investigation.
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/cri...ooting-unarmed-oklahoma-man-article-1.2798435

 

[popsicle]

[h=1][FONT=&quot]Law enforcement shootings since 2007[/FONT][/h]http://www.tulsaworld.com/law-enfor...tml_0d65fd81-48d3-50f2-82c0-08703dbd8b3c.html

Tulsa has 1 black and 3 white for 2016
OK 4 -black 9 -white 1 -hisp 1 -nat amer

 

[animlzrule]

[h=1][FONT="]Police say PCP found in vehicle occupied by Terence Crutcher on Friday[/FONT][/COLOR][/URL][/h]
[FONT="]Homicide Sgt. Dave Walker declined to say where in the vehicle investigators recovered the vial of PCP, nor did he say whether officers determined Crutcher, 40, used it Friday night, when he was fatally shot by Officer Betty Shelby at 36th Street North and Lewis Avenue at about 7:45 p.m.[/FONT]

And, SO WHAT???? (Not directed at you personally, Popsicle) A) I don't believe anything about what they say they found or did not find in that car. B)It doesn't matter if he was standing there juggling bags of PCP right in front of their faces, it still doesn't provide a lawful explanation as to why they murdered this man! And here come the police apologists and the character assassinations of the victim, right on cue... And C. Kaepernick is the villain in his protest of the policing of black people. SMH.

 

[bluesneakers]

Tulsa has a long history of violent racism, going back to the 1921 riots in which white citizens burned and looted the black community of Greenwood, killing 300 people, mostly black. It destroyed over 35 blocks of homes and businesses through attacks from the ground and the air, leaving over 10,000 people homeless. Planes flew over the community and dropped flaming balls of turpentine on the buildings below. It was discovered later that the city had conspired with the white mob to destroy the town.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tulsa_race_riot

Tulsa is also where an officer was charged with manslaughter in the shooting death of an unarmed black man and the sheriff had to resign. That was only a year ago.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shooting_of_Eric_Courtney_Harris