OK - Valentino 'Tony' Verner, 27, shot to death, Tulsa, 28 Feb 2010

[Steely Dan]

I searched the site and didn't see this posted anywhere.

http://www.fox23.com/news/local/sto...-Witnesses-Silent/mPJSVm4H1k60wO3jghR4IQ.cspx

Crowd Watches Tulsa's 9th Murder, Witnesses Silent
Reported by: Lyndsay Levingston
Email: LLevingston@fox23.com
Last Update: 10:25 am

TULSA, OK - Tulsa Police are experiencing frustration as they investigate a crime in which none of the hundred-plus witnesses will come forward with information.

Officers responded to a shooting Saturday night at the Chicken Hut in the 1500 block of East Apache Street.

When they arrived, they victim, Valentino Verner, 27, had been shot several times.

He was transported to the hospital, where he later died from his injuries.

Verner was standing in front of the eatery when the gunman approached him.

"What we know is there were 100-150 people standing around, waiting for their food," Officer Jason Willingham, with the Tulsa Police Department said. "We know that there are people out there who knows who's responsible and saw who's responsible."

Willingham told FOX23 the crowd scattered when officers arrived. Police were able to interview only one witness.

"At this point, we have to start our investigation from the start, we don't even have a motive."

 

[Steely Dan]

Here's another news report;

http://www.newson6.com/Global/categ...default&clipId=4582111&flvUri=&partnerclipid=

I guess people are scared, it was probably gang related. Weird how people didn't run until the cops showed up. :banghead:

 

[Wise Old Owl]

Would be interesting to know the demographics of the crowd as well as the surrounding neighborhood. Illegals? Low socio-economic / "ghetto" / "gang activity" crowd?

Sure would help to know that to understand the why.

 

[kbl8201]

hey man, whats more important, identifying a murderer or eating dinner?

 

[Wise Old Owl]

how "big" was this eatery? 100 - 150 people standing around waiting for their food - that's a lot of chicken. I can only imagine the frustration of the family with no one coming forward.

 

[wfgodot]

Behavior at crime scene denounced
Witnesses to the shooting walked over the victim's body and yelled at first-responders.

By JARREL WADE World Staff Writer
Published: 3/2/2010 2:28 AM
Last Modified: 3/2/2010 4:42 AM

The actions of a crowd that hindered officials' efforts to investigate and help a shooting victim early Sunday were "unacceptable," an EMSA spokeswoman said Monday.

Valentino Verner, 27, was shot several times outside the Chicken Hut, 1500 E. Apache St., just before 3 a.m.

He died from his injuries.

About 100 patrons were at the late-night, walk-up restaurant, and some were walking over the man's body to get their food, EMSA spokeswoman Tina Wells said.

"It's very upsetting," Wells said Monday. "It's just absolutely unacceptable."

EMSA paramedics were impeded while attending to the patient and had to rush the patient away from the area for his protection and theirs, Wells said.

Paramedics were at the scene for only seven minutes before they had to leave, she said.

"There were many irate bystanders yelling at the (EMSA) crew, Tulsa police and Tulsa firefighters," Wells said.

Police Capt. Karen Tipler said Sunday that many of the patrons witnessed the shooting but were uncooperative with authorities.

She said witnesses were aggressive and angry toward the police when they tried to help Verner.

Verner was taken to St. John Medical Center, where he was pronounced dead, Tipler said.

No suspects have been arrested in connection with the homicide, and police have said they don't know a motive for the shooting.
---
http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/arti...leid=20100302_11_A12_Teatos599865&archive=yes

 

[Filly]

Would be interesting to know the demographics of the crowd as well as the surrounding neighborhood. Illegals? Low socio-economic / "ghetto" / "gang activity" crowd?

Sure would help to know that to understand the why.

"Snitches get stiches"?

The poor Po Po yo. The cops are lucky the mob didn't turn on them.

 

[domesticmess]

Would be interesting to know the demographics of the crowd as well as the surrounding neighborhood. Illegals? Low socio-economic / "ghetto" / "gang activity" crowd?

Sure would help to know that to understand the why.

I have lived in Tulsa my whole life and when I saw this on the news this weekend it almost made me cry. How embarrassing that this is how the North Tulsa community has represented itself.

This is a "gang ridden" side of town that is as brutal as Detroit. It is not uncommon to have muders everyday of the week there, but for no one to do anything as a man lay dying, stepping over him to get CHICKEN AT 3 in the MORNING!! that makes me sick and sad. They didn't have a grocery store for 3 years and this year they finally got one on the Northside and in it's first month of business the manager is held at gunpoint and forced to open the safe.
That is this neighborhood.

 

[wfgodot]

North Tulsa was also the scene of the infamous Race Riot of 1921, a.k.a. the Greenwood riots, during which, after racial oppression on a grand scale caused unrest in the black community, whites set fire to black-owned businesses and also attacked the area from airplanes - firing rifles and dropping firebombs from above. It still stands as the worst race riot in U.S. history. It is estimated that hundreds were killed.

[ame]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tulsa_race_riot[/ame]

 

[kbl8201]

i can actually understand them being scared and not wanting to talk.

but walking over a human body to get your supper is utterly sickenig

 

[wfgodot]

I'll also add that, in my career as a college teacher, I taught probably 30-40 kids from north Tulsa, all typical freshmen - some good, and some not quite so; some sweet, some ornery, and some a bit of both; some talkative, some shy, some funny, some serious, some spiritual, some worldly. There are no stereotypes: one really cannot say, Oh, north Tulsans? they'll step right over a dead body to get some take-out food. That some did is a bit disheartening. Everything, though, occurs in a context.

 

[domesticmess]

I'll also add that, in my career as a college teacher, I taught probably 30-40 kids from north Tulsa, all typical freshmen - some good, and some not quite so; some sweet, some ornery, and some a bit of both; some talkative, some shy, some funny, some serious, some spiritual, some worldly. There are no stereotypes: one really cannot say, Oh, north Tulsans? they'll step right over a dead body to get some take-out food. That some did is a bit disheartening. Everything, though, occurs in a context.

I totally agree with what you said, I was not trying to make a generalized stereotype of North Tulsans.

 

[wfgodot]

I totally agree with what you said, I was not trying to make a generalized stereotype of North Tulsans.

I know. I was about to write after quoting your piece above that I know what you mean - it made me sick and sad after reading that the new grocery got robbed, and now this.

 

[Filly]

North Tulsa was also the scene of the infamous Race Riot of 1921, a.k.a. the Greenwood riots, during which, after racial oppression on a grand scale caused unrest in the black community, whites set fire to black-owned businesses and also attacked the area from airplanes - firing rifles and dropping firebombs from above. It still stands as the worst race riot in U.S. history. It is estimated that hundreds were killed.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tulsa_race_riot

Wfgodot, thank you for this information. We didn't learn this in school. Typically all I knew of the race riots were the 60's.

DM, I'm so sorry you're heart is broken over seeing your home town represented in such a way. Wit that I can empathize. The frightening part is it actually at some point doesn't shock anymore. I don't want that to happen to anyone.

 

[SunnieRN]

Karna can be rough. I hope that none of those 150 witnesses never experience getting shot under the same set of circumstances. Truly sad. All I can figure out was that the shooter may have been there the entire time.

 

[Filly]

i can actually understand them being scared and not wanting to talk.

but walking over a human body to get your supper is utterly sickenig

Supper? Who says "supper"?:waitasec: My dad used to call it that. BTW, supper at 3:00AM?

In no way am I making light of this tradgedy. I just had to ask, K!

 

[kbl8201]

Supper? Who says "supper"?:waitasec: My dad used to call it that. BTW, supper at 3:00AM?

In no way am I making light of this tradgedy. I just had to ask, K!

sorry that's what my gramps used to call it, so thats what i call it.

boy i bet i made you feel even older now

 

[wfgodot]

Wfgodot, thank you for this information. We didn't learn this in school. Typically all I knew of the race riots were the 60's.

DM, I'm so sorry you're heart is broken over seeing your home town represented in such a way. Wit that I can empathize. The frightening part is it actually at some point doesn't shock anymore. I don't want that to happen to anyone.

You're welcome, Filly. Coincidentally, the air bombing during the Tulsa riots - there's little doubt that it was, at some level, officially sanctioned by authorities - was the only example of the U.S. government bombing its own citizens until the Philadelphia MOVE bombing in 1985.

 

[tk71texas]

i was reading my facebook updates today and this man that was killed is the brother of one of my old school mates. I grew up in Tulsa...lived and went to school on the nawth side.....I personally don't think it's as bad (or was as bad) as they say it is today. It saddens me there is so much violence in young people. The victim had a 9yr old son (

 

[wfgodot]

Excellent feature-length article and video about the evening in question and the silence that followed:
TOO SCARED TO 'SNITCH'
Witnesses' response to last month's fatal shooting at a fast-food stand is not surprising to police.

On the downhill stretch of a 12-hour shift, James Postoak was cruising the Broken Arrow Expressway in the light of a full moon.

"I know it sounds weird, but ask anybody," says Postoak, an EMSA field supervisor who was driving an official SUV. "The police, firefighters, EMTs — they will all tell you that the craziest things happen when the moon is full."

About 2:41 a.m. Feb. 28, dispatchers reported a shooting at 1500 E. Apache St., an old gas station that has been converted into the Chicken Hut, a fast-food stand that stays open late on the weekends and seems to get busiest after the dance clubs close at 2 a.m.
---
"That was an ugly, chaotic scene," he says. Bystanders were yelling insults at the police and paramedics. "Quite frankly, it was really frightening."

The victim, 27-year-old Valentino Verner, was still awake, lying on the sidewalk in front of the pick-up window.

As paramedics struggled to stabilize Verner, people in the crowd stepped over police tape and stood in pools of blood to pick up Styrofoam platters of fried chicken.
---
Talk to the police at a crime scene? The threat of retaliation isn't the figment of anyone's imagination.

"It's very real," says Marvin Blades Sr., a veteran of the Tulsa Police Department's gang unit who now serves as a Tulsa Public Schools officer. "It happens."

Detectives have said the Chicken Hut victim apparently wasn't involved in gang activity.

But the mere possibility of it being gang-related will make witnesses afraid to talk to the police, Blades says.
---

and much, much more, with video, at:
http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/article.aspx?subjectid=11&articleid=20100314_11_A1_JasonT355134