Omaha Double Murder #2

[waltzingmatilda]

In a heavily discussed case such as this, it sometimes is helpful to go back and re-read some of the early posts. Sometimes things get overlooked or did not seem important at the time that later are.
I was looking at the early posts in the original thread. There is a long article that was pasted I believe from the World Herald early right after the killings. In that article it is alleged that wittnesses saw the POI on the front porch of the Hunter home. It still doesnt say anyone saw him enter but this sounds at least like we may have been correct in thinking someone let him in via the front door. Given what we know from Shirlee's family this would fit with her not leaving the back door open or unlocked.
It would also lead me to think that the perp was there to see Tom, not Shirlee. Also the article refers to 'multiple' wounds to the victim's necks. This was a detail I'd not noted before. Sounds a bit less like the clinical crime scene some had spoken of.

Snick1946, I tend to agree with you. The murderer had the whole day to try and gain entry into the Hunter home but he waited until Tom returned home from school. Why? Did this person know somehow that Shirlee would not answer the door but Tom would?

What little evidence we have points toward Tom either being the intended target or.....his presence being used by the perp to gain entry into the home. but , since there was no burglary committed, what would be the point of that?

Thanks for noting the 'multiple wounds to the victims necks'. Thinking back to my teaching days, what is the difination of 'multiple'?......multiples of 2?
5?.....10? Sure wish we had more info.

My intentions of this post are in no way meant as disrepectful to Tom.

MOO

wm

 

[omaha]

Snick1946, I tend to agree with you. The murderer had the whole day to try and gain entry into the Hunter home but he waited until Tom returned home from school. Why? Did this person know somehow that Shirlee would not answer the door but Tom would?

What little evidence we have points toward Tom either being the intended target or.....his presence being used by the perp to gain entry into the home. but , since there was no burglary committed, what would be the point of that?

Thanks for noting the 'multiple wounds to the victims necks'. Thinking back to my teaching days, what is the difination of 'multiple'?......multiples of 2?
5?.....10? Sure wish we had more info.

My intentions of this post are in no way meant as disrepectful to Tom.

MOO

wm

I agree. One thing that really bugs me though. Why that day? Was it just bad luck that they were both there? If the killer was casing the house, why try to enter on the day that the housekeeper was there? And not a day that Tom was alone?

So frustrating. I find the rumor about people in cars with phones interesting. I hope the police are going back through all those early interviews at least once a week!

 

[waltzingmatilda]

I agree. One thing that really bugs me though. Why that day? Was it just bad luck that they were both there? If the killer was casing the house, why try to enter on the day that the housekeeper was there? And not a day that Tom was alone?

So frustrating. I find the rumor about people in cars with phones interesting. I hope the police are going back through all those early interviews at least once a week!

I hope so too Omaha. i also hope they go back and reconduct interviews with a new set of eyes. Sometimes, others will pick up on something that wasn't originally suspicious. (Thinking of a case in my area where an FBI secretary was murdered and it was solved a few years later, after a new set of eyes looked at it. Their perp was a neighbor who was interviewed in the beginning of the investigation)

I found a post on another forum here where a fellow sleuth shares an online gaming experience. I found it very insightful since I am not a gamer. chilling too!

It is post #140.

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=89163&page=6

OT my 'puter is still down so my time sleuthing/researching is limited. Hope all of you are doing well. Thanks to all for contributions and keeping the thread current.

wm

 

[omaha]

You know what's scary. I remember the Police saying pretty early on that the sketch was of a person of interest, who might be able to shed light on the murder. Not a suspect. Of course it could be, but there was that theory that maybe they were a witness. I wonder who else could have done it if not the "olive-skinned" man. Sorry, just another questions that gets us further away from solving this.

 

[waltzingmatilda]

You know what's scary. I remember the Police saying pretty early on that the sketch was of a person of interest, who might be able to shed light on the murder. Not a suspect. Of course it could be, but there was that theory that maybe they were a witness. I wonder who else could have done it if not the "olive-skinned" man. Sorry, just another questions that gets us further away from solving this.

Oh it is scary! The reason I feel this way is because I have been suspicious about the dark skinned man and his role in this crime. My suspicions lead me to consider various theories. First, I have considered the possibility that the dark skinned man arrived after the murders took place and could have aided and abetted after the fact. Perhaps a call from a friend to bring a change of clothes to such and such adress. Could the actual killer have answered the door when the dark skinned man came a knockin to 'help' his friend'?

If the D.S.M walked into the crime scene without knowledge of knowing what awaited, and has no priors, nor is criminally minded, he may never talk. He would rightfully be afraid. This may have not been any of his doing......yet he was sucked into this ugly mess while trying to help out a friend.

Hope this makes sense. Just additional questions/theories.......

I sure hope OPD hasn't given up....I haven't seen any news updates in awhile.

MOO......wm

 

[YellowDog]

That's an interesting theory WM. The killer could have even come into the house after the family left but before the housekeeper arrived.

Still there were no signs of burglary that we know about so that would seem to make it a premeditated crime. This could include a hired killer or even a serial killer.

 

[Snick1946]

Here is a snip from an article that appeared 3-18-08 on the WOWT website:

'A man fitting the description in the sketch, wearing a suit and carrying a briefcase, was seen walking up to the door of the home.'

Note that it says a SUIT, not a coat, trenchcoat or whatever. I am still not 100% sure about this but after research I'd say it's likely the guy was wearing a dark two piece suit. The day was unseasonably warm so I doubt a coat was being worn. This guy was either there on business of some kind or was - more likely- trying to appear as if he were. This would still suggest a hit to me.

I have done a little reading about serial killers. I think sometimes they are people who are stuck at some point in their mental past and keep repeating a pattern in their killings. I would wonder what LE has been able to find about similar killings of children Tom's age along with someone that the perp could be assuming was their mother? Maybe this is some tape this guy keeps playing in his head, who knows.

If this was a serial thing the crime probably makes perfect sense to the perp, he was able to justify it. To normal people his crime brands him as a coward.
If he was a hired killer, that's just as bad. From what I know a lot of hit men will not kill a child. He's a low life.

 

[Snick1946]

You know what's scary. I remember the Police saying pretty early on that the sketch was of a person of interest, who might be able to shed light on the murder. Not a suspect. Of course it could be, but there was that theory that maybe they were a witness. I wonder who else could have done it if not the "olive-skinned" man. Sorry, just another questions that gets us further away from solving this.

You mean that maybe the POI walked in on a murder either during or afterward? Then fled. The perp could have been there in the house when Shirlee arrived altho I think the attack came after she started cleaning and after Tom arrived as she evidently made him a snack. Just speculation.

 

[YellowDog]

I read somewhere that Tom was involved in extracurricular activities at school and one of them was a Geography Bee. Is that like a spelling bee where the student is asked a question about geography and must answer correctly to progress?

Does anyone know what other activities he was involved in? Soccer, swimming, art. slateboarding, gymnastics???? If we knew that we might be able to determine where he
could have hung out after school.

 

[Snick1946]

One of our other members has suggested there may be some interest for participants in this thread in reading about the Karen Jenkins disappearence here in Omaha:

http://www.omaha.com/article/20101021/NEWS97/710219836/0

Karen was involved in developing online courses for Creighton. No doubt no connection exists but it does raise a question of whether someone may possibly be targeting CU staff?

 

[omaha]

One of our other members has suggested there may be some interest for participants in this thread in reading about the Karen Jenkins disappearence here in Omaha:

http://www.omaha.com/article/20101021/NEWS97/710219836/0

Karen was involved in developing online courses for Creighton. No doubt no connection exists but it does raise a question of whether someone may possibly be targeting CU staff?

Thanks very much for sharing this! I somehow totally missed this in the paper.

On first read, my immediate thought was it being another North Omaha missing person. I hope she's OK. The Creighton connection seemed unimportant.

But the idea that everything could be tied to Creighton is very interesting. The Andersens didn't work at Creighton though, did they? I think he worked for the Workers Compensation Court for the state of Nebraska, which itself is pretty interesting.

I'd love to get someone inside the investigation's take on all of our open questions that we listed out. That will never happen, unfortunately…

Where did Shirlee live again?

 

[Snick1946]

Thanks very much for sharing this! I somehow totally missed this in the paper.

On first read, my immediate thought was it being another North Omaha missing person. I hope she's OK. The Creighton connection seemed unimportant.

But the idea that everything could be tied to Creighton is very interesting. The Andersens didn't work at Creighton though, did they? I think he worked for the Workers Compensation Court for the state of Nebraska, which itself is pretty interesting.

I'd love to get someone inside the investigation's take on all of our open questions that we listed out. That will never happen, unfortunately…

Where did Shirlee live again?

I am just speaking off the top of my head- but, I am pretty sure that Mrs Andersen worked at Clarkson Hospital. I did hear one report that one of the people of interest in the Hunter murder may also have worked for a time at Clarkson but I cannot confirm that.
Shirlee lived I think a bit east of 72 and Blondo.
I suspect the currently missing woman's case has nothing to do with this one, she owned a bar and robbery may have been a motive but it just does seem strange.

 

[omaha]

I am just speaking off the top of my head- but, I am pretty sure that Mrs Andersen worked at Clarkson Hospital. I did hear one report that one of the people of interest in the Hunter murder may also have worked for a time at Clarkson but I cannot confirm that.
Shirlee lived I think a bit east of 72 and Blondo.
I suspect the currently missing woman's case has nothing to do with this one, she owned a bar and robbery may have been a motive but it just does seem strange.

Thanks Snick!

Sorry for not being familiar, but where is Clarkson Hospital located?

Did we cover the people of interest in this thread? I think I missed this.

Is anyone living in Shirlee's home now? Is there a county assessor page for it like we had for the Hunter home?

Had Shirlee ever worked at a hospital, or been admitted to one as far as we know?

Did the Hunters ever work at Clarkson. Do doctors from one hospital work at other hospitals at the same time?

 

[omaha]

You mean that maybe the POI walked in on a murder either during or afterward? Then fled. The perp could have been there in the house when Shirlee arrived altho I think the attack came after she started cleaning and after Tom arrived as she evidently made him a snack. Just speculation.

Or the POI had nothing to do with it, and the real perp was never seen nor linked to the crime. Perhaps they left before Dr. Hunter showed up, or after, before the police arrived. Perhaps they left through other yards / houses. Scary to think there is literally no place to start, as opposed to the very vague POI.

 

[Snick1946]

Thanks Snick!

Sorry for not being familiar, but where is Clarkson Hospital located?

Did we cover the people of interest in this thread? I think I missed this.

Is anyone living in Shirlee's home now? Is there a county assessor page for it like we had for the Hunter home?

Had Shirlee ever worked at a hospital, or been admitted to one as far as we know?

Did the Hunters ever work at Clarkson. Do doctors from one hospital work at other hospitals at the same time?

Don't have an exact address, but Clarkson is located on 42d Street just south of Farnam, it would have been a short trip to work for Mrs Andersen.
No we didn't cover the POI's. OPD of course has not released anything on them and the POI's I had in mind were individuals that I have been made aware of through contacts. I don't want to mention names, etc in a public forum. If you are interested, send me a private message and I may be able to fill you in. Shirlee to my knowledge never worked at a hospital. Claire Hunter may have been certified to practice at Clarkson, if I can find out I will post that info.
Earlier in this discussion, perhaps in the first thread, I posted a copy from a comment an anonymous person left on 'True Crime Diary'. That person was wondering if Shirlee had ever taken dance lessons- they mentioned that the POI sketch strongly resembled an employee of a local dance studio who would have had access to a silver SUV. I sent a copy of that post via Crimestoppers to OPD and never heard back. Probably nothing to it, but...

 

[omaha]

Don't have an exact address, but Clarkson is located on 42d Street just south of Farnam, it would have been a short trip to work for Mrs Andersen.
No we didn't cover the POI's. OPD of course has not released anything on them and the POI's I had in mind were individuals that I have been made aware of through contacts. I don't want to mention names, etc in a public forum. If you are interested, send me a private message and I may be able to fill you in. Shirlee to my knowledge never worked at a hospital. Claire Hunter may have been certified to practice at Clarkson, if I can find out I will post that info.
Earlier in this discussion, perhaps in the first thread, I posted a copy from a comment an anonymous person left on 'True Crime Diary'. That person was wondering if Shirlee had ever taken dance lessons- they mentioned that the POI sketch strongly resembled an employee of a local dance studio who would have had access to a silver SUV. I sent a copy of that post via Crimestoppers to OPD and never heard back. Probably nothing to it, but...

Thanks Snick. I'll send in a copy of the True Crime Diary post to CS and OPD as well, just in case.

 

[Snick1946]

In case anyone missed it previously, here's a link to the comment on True Crime Diary from a poster back in January:

http://www.truecrimediary.com/index.cfm?page=cases&id=51&mode=comments#view

I posted this back on the first thread. It haunted me then and still does. although I am aware that most such leads come from people trying to be helpful but don't wind up going anywhere. The information this individual posted seems pretty specific and I could not coax more out of them. They seemed to have posted and then run away. I am not sure what the reference is to Primeamerica, the whole thing is strange. There cannot be too many dance studios in Omaha and LE could do worse than to check with them to see who they had employed back in March of 2008. If one of them left suddenly that might mean something.

 

[Salem]

Here's a link to Primerica Financial Services: http://www.primerica.com/public/

Maybe the look alike works at the Omaha office? I couldn't find a link to all the locations?

Salem

 

[YellowDog]

I was reading the True Crime Dary article again and this excerpt from the article stuck out at me. I know it's been discussed before.

It may be a coincidence, but the murders occurred exactly one week before Residency Match Day, the annual ritual on the third Thursday in March when graduating medical students learn at which hospitals they will train in their new specialties as residents.

It could be possible that one of the graduating medical students gained prior access to this list and discovered he was not on it so he sought revenge. And, like the article said, if he was a foreign student, he could have committed the crime just prior to leaving the country.

Since Karen Jenkins was involved in developing online courses for Creighton, could she have had access to the list through the computers at Creighton and been the source from whom a student obtained previous knowledge of the list? If this could be the case, the killer might be afraid of her divulging this information.

Just speculation on my part.

It's very interesting that she was employed by Creighton.

 

[Snick1946]

The Law and Order episode based on these murders will air on TNT next week on 10-28 at 5PM ET, 4PM CT. I plan to tape it. I don't know what times will be for those in other zones so you may need to check your local listings.
I have been looking for this for awhile and wanted to share this. I think others will be interested. From what I know of the plot I think the killer turned out to be an old friend of the family. Bear in mind, this is ficton.