Omaha Double Murder #2

[waltzingmatilda]

I think this is really interesting, and we should do some digging:

1. Someone told either Tom or Shirlee that a person was coming… told by whom? The Hunter family? Brothers or Parents. Shirlee's friends or colleagues. Would not have been hard to find the address for Hunters online, but much harder to target her there unless she had personally given the address to someone. That makes me wonder about her being the target at all.

2. The reward. My understanding is that the reward was half put up by "anonymous" donors, and half by Shirlee's family. Note that this is the Crimestoppers reward program, not the Police or Families. The family or families contribute to the Crimestoppers fund. Who were those anonymous donors. Would a reward really help if it was a hired killer? If it was some disgruntled medical professional or student? I guess it would if it were drug related, but does anyone believe that this was drug related? Perhaps drugs at Tom's school? Or with Shirlee? Don't quite fit for me, but you never know.

3. We haven't heard much about the clearing of anyone, unfortunately. I personally would like to hear more about the immediate family and those connections. Obviously the Police probably went there first, but perhaps it's taking longer to clear the immediate family. But two years?

Just my two cents.

~above BBM..respectfully~

thesaint, Your posts are thought provoking and I don't wish you to think your thoughts and contributions have gone unnoticed.

Omaha has a news article on his site (my apologies for not having the link readily available but Snick had it linked in a post 2, 3, or 4 pages back, or maybe Omaha will be kind enough to link for us as it is the most complete compilation of media articles that I have seen so far) which states that Dr. William Hunter is not a suspect. Sorry, I can't remember if this came directly from Le or is just a reporters perspective.

Regarding the reward....would the Freedom of Information Act assist us in learning the the identities of the anonymous donors or NO? I am curious why the Sherman family contributed to the reward fund but not the Hunter family. The Dr's Hunter, well I have no idea of their joint annual income, but I think it is probably more than most of us imagine. Why no contribution?

I don't really feel reward money would be an incentive for a hired killer to come forward. Nor do I expect the killer would confide in anyone if this is his 'job' for which he was hired. JMO.

Any ideas where to go from here?

wm

 

[omaha]

~above BBM..respectfully~

thesaint, Your posts are thought provoking and I don't wish you to think your thoughts and contributions have gone unnoticed.

Omaha has a news article on his site (my apologies for not having the link readily available but Snick had it linked in a post 2, 3, or 4 pages back, or maybe Omaha will be kind enough to link for us as it is the most complete compilation of media articles that I have seen so far) which states that Dr. William Hunter is not a suspect. Sorry, I can't remember if this came directly from Le or is just a reporters perspective.

Regarding the reward....would the Freedom of Information Act assist us in learning the the identities of the anonymous donors or NO? I am curious why the Sherman family contributed to the reward fund but not the Hunter family. The Dr's Hunter, well I have no idea of their joint annual income, but I think it is probably more than most of us imagine. Why no contribution?

I don't really feel reward money would be an incentive for a hired killer to come forward. Nor do I expect the killer would confide in anyone if this is his 'job' for which he was hired. JMO.

Any ideas where to go from here?

wm

I too would like to know who were the anonymous donors, though I don't think that would bear much weight in an investigation. Similarly, I agree about the donation not really having an effect, therefore I haven't read too much into the lack of contribution by the Hunters.

I'm more curious of who has been ruled out and who hasn't. And learning more about Tom's behavior and Shirlee's life. Notice we've heard very little about either of them... Aren't there usually big profiles about individuals at the time of death? This case there seemed to be a lot of the "everybody loved them" stuff, which is great, but we don't really know much about what either of them were into. We assume a lot about Tom just because of his age. What were Shirlee's hobbies? Where did she travel to? What about Tom's internet activity? Shirlee's? Just wish we had more info. I know everyone wants this solved, including Police.

Also curious. Could this have been a mistaken identity, as Snick noted, there a couple of similar looking houses on the few blocks around the Hunter home. Did the police look into neighbors?

For reference, I found the link about the father, Dr. Hunter on a local tv channel website, which quoted the lead detective shortly after the murders. But that doesn't necessarily mean Dr. Hunter has completely been ruled out. Because you can't really do that until you name a suspect. Right?

 

[waltzingmatilda]

I too would like to know who were the anonymous donors, though I don't think that would bear much weight in an investigation. Similarly, I agree about the donation not really having an effect, therefore I haven't read too much into the lack of contribution by the Hunters.

I'm more curious of who has been ruled out and who hasn't. And learning more about Tom's behavior and Shirlee's life. Notice we've heard very little about either of them... Aren't there usually big profiles about individuals at the time of death? This case there seemed to be a lot of the "everybody loved them" stuff, which is great, but we don't really know much about what either of them were into. We assume a lot about Tom just because of his age. What were Shirlee's hobbies? Where did she travel to? What about Tom's internet activity? Shirlee's? Just wish we had more info. I know everyone wants this solved, including Police.

Also curious. Could this have been a mistaken identity, as Snick noted, there a couple of similar looking houses on the few blocks around the Hunter home. Did the police look into neighbors?

For reference, I found the link about the father, Dr. Hunter on a local tv channel website, which quoted the lead detective shortly after the murders. But that doesn't necessarily mean Dr. Hunter has completely been ruled out. Because you can't really do that until you name a suspect. Right?

Omaha, I agree with your post.

I too would like to know more about both Shirlee and Tom. We do make alot of assumptions about Tom due to his age along with this tragedy. For instance, I assume he was a nice kid from what has been written but was he? (no disrespect intended) Assumptions have also been made about Shirlee due to some rumors regarding members of her family. (again, no disrespect intended) There is much that we just do not know here and it is odd with this case because in other cases it seems relatives and other associates of the victims are suspect. Not knowing facts about T & S 's personal lives makes it more difficult.

Maybe we can begin compiling a list of known facts in this case and fan out from there.?

wm

 

[omaha]

Omaha, I agree with your post.

I too would like to know more about both Shirlee and Tom. We do make alot of assumptions about Tom due to his age along with this tragedy. For instance, I assume he was a nice kid from what has been written but was he? (no disrespect intended) Assumptions have also been made about Shirlee due to some rumors regarding members of her family. (again, no disrespect intended) There is much that we just do not know here and it is odd with this case because in other cases it seems relatives and other associates of the victims are suspect. Not knowing facts about T & S 's personal lives makes it more difficult.

Maybe we can begin compiling a list of known facts in this case and fan out from there.?

wm

I completely agree.

Some things I would like to know which should be relatively easy for people to confirm, we know people are watching the forum, so private message someone if you don't want to post.

1. Did Tom have any trouble at school?
2. Did Tom suddenly stop or avoid his outside-school activities (Basketball)
3. What did Tom do in the Summertime when school was out? Summer camps?
4. Did Shirlee ever have any trouble with the law?
5. Did Shirlee's family have any trouble with the law.
6. Did any of Tom's brothers have any history of drugs or violence?
7. Was Shirlee romantically involved?
8. Did Shirlee always come to the Hunters' home on the same day at the same time?
9. How did Shirlee get introduced to the Hunters' house / job?
10. Did Shirlee have job security? Where else did she work? ( I remember seeing a post saying she hadn't worked there for more than a year or two. )

Hope this gets the ball rolling!

 

[YellowDog]

I've never felt like enough interest has been given to the immediate neighbors. Everyone assumes the man with the briefcase was the killer, but he could also have been a figment of someone's imagination particularly if they were trying to divert the attention away from themselves.

I, also, find it strange that Creighton University has not contributed to the reward fund in a show of support for the family since both parent were employed by them.

Could Tom have listed something on Craig's list for sale, without his parents knowing about it, and was expecting a visitor?

I don't know why, but I have this nagging feeling that this involves a blackmail attempt
by someone. Could Tom have been trying to blackmail someone or could someone have had information on Tom and they were trying to blackmail him knowing that he was from a prominent family? Did they come for the payoff and he double crossed them?

I've never really bought in to the "hired killer" theory. I think it's someone from right there in Omaha.

 

[waltzingmatilda]

My responses below in red....

I completely agree.

Some things I would like to know which should be relatively easy for people to confirm, we know people are watching the forum, so private message someone if you don't want to post.

1. Did Tom have any trouble at school?NO info
2. Did Tom suddenly stop or avoid his outside-school activities (Basketball)No info
3. What did Tom do in the Summertime when school was out? Summer camps?Do not know except for family vacation(s) mentioned in media
4. Did Shirlee ever have any trouble with the law?no info. However her home was allegedly burglarized in weeks/months prior to the murders. I don't recall if rumour or documented in news media
5. Did Shirlee's family have any trouble with the law. No info
6. Did any of Tom's brothers have any history of drugs or violence? No info
7. Was Shirlee romantically involved? NO. This was in documented news media, IIRC
8. Did Shirlee always come to the Hunters' home on the same day at the same time? A subtitle on your site asks this question and I inferred that she did from the wording but do not know for sure.
9. How did Shirlee get introduced to the Hunters' house / job?No info
10. Did Shirlee have job security? Where else did she work? ( I remember seeing a post saying she hadn't worked there for more than a year or two. )
Shirlee's son or son's gf posted on thread #1 that she was employeed by the Hunter's for 15 years
Hope this gets the ball rolling!

Posts # 928 & 929 from below ink are from Shrilee's son and his gf. Shirlee must have been cleaning for quite a few years because he mentions going along with her to clean when he was a young boy. Here's the link.

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=67963&page=38

 

[waltzingmatilda]

I've never felt like enough interest has been given to the immediate neighbors. Everyone assumes the man with the briefcase was the killer, but he could also have been a figment of someone's imagination particularly if they were trying to divert the attention away from themselves.

I, also, find it strange that Creighton University has not contributed to the reward fund in a show of support for the family since both parent were employed by them.

Could Tom have listed something on Craig's list for sale, without his parents knowing about it, and was expecting a visitor?

I don't know why, but I have this nagging feeling that this involves a blackmail attemptby someone. Could Tom have been trying to blackmail someone or could someone have had information on Tom and they were trying to blackmail him knowing that he was from a prominent family? Did they come for the payoff and he double crossed them?

I've never really bought in to the "hired killer" theory. I think it's someone from right there in Omaha.

~above respectfully BBM~

I have had the same nagging feeling lately, YD.

 

[Snick1946]

If I were investigating this case I would look in two areas: friends and neighbors of the Hunter family and Tom's school.
Clearly the perp knew when Tom was going to be there. This was someone who had access to information as to the familiy's schedule- I believe the perp knew Shirlee was going to be there and counted on conning her into letting him in.
I can easily envision a scenerio in which Tom became involved with an older man; a family friend, perhaps even a collegue of one of his parents, or perhaps someone living nearby. Remember Tom was alone for a couple hours most weekdays. That left lots of room for him to have developed a relationship. I am not saying this would have been sexual- perhaps a gaming friendship with an older teen in the area unknown to his family? I assume that all sexual offenders in the area were checked out.
I have been open to the idea that Shirlee may have been the target but this doesnt work on some levels IMO.
Tom's school has been discussed in the past and I assume staff was checked out. A faculty member would have known when he would have been there and would have been more easily let in by Tom.
I think there was a case in Texas a few years ago of two teenage girls found murdered in a house after school. That one was unsolved for a couple of years while all sorts of rumors circulated. In the end LE arrested their neighbor. He'd been cleared early on by the cops and in fact had been very helpful to LE. He'd gone over to ask them to turn down their music and things somehow escalated. The point being- sometimes it's more productive to look close to home and to keep it simple.

 

[waltzingmatilda]

If I were investigating this case I would look in two areas: friends and neighbors of the Hunter family and Tom's school.
Clearly the perp knew when Tom was going to be there. This was someone who had access to information as to the familiy's schedule- I believe the perp knew Shirlee was going to be there and counted on conning her into letting him in.
I can easily envision a scenerio in which Tom became involved with an older man; a family friend, perhaps even a collegue of one of his parents, or perhaps someone living nearby. Remember Tom was alone for a couple hours most weekdays. That left lots of room for him to have developed a relationship. I am not saying this would have been sexual- perhaps a gaming friendship with an older teen in the area unknown to his family? I assume that all sexual offenders in the area were checked out.
I have been open to the idea that Shirlee may have been the target but this doesnt work on some levels IMO.
Tom's school has been discussed in the past and I assume staff was checked out. A faculty member would have known when he would have been there and would have been more easily let in by Tom.
I think there was a case in Texas a few years ago of two teenage girls found murdered in a house after school. That one was unsolved for a couple of years while all sorts of rumors circulated. In the end LE arrested their neighbor. He'd been cleared early on by the cops and in fact had been very helpful to LE. He'd gone over to ask them to turn down their music and things somehow escalated. The point being- sometimes it's more productive to look close to home and to keep it simple.

Interesting observation regarding a faculty member of Tom's school knowing his schedule. Good thinking, Snick. I agree that we should begin close to home.

Speaking from a parent's perspective, I remember when my kids were in middle school. They went through many changes, suddenly clammed up and it seemed as though I was no longer privvy to details of their school day. There's alot of peer pressure in our public schools these days. All JMO.

wm

 

[YellowDog]

I wonder, too, was it trash pickup day? Did they receive bottled water or Swann's Foods by a delivery man? Did the newspaper send someone door to door to collect for subscriptions? Had they had any recent workers in the house for any reason? Had there been any recent breakins in the neighborhood? Any robberies?

 

[Snick1946]

For what it's worth, here's a link to an article that appeared on the local TV news site in 12-07:

http://www.wowt.com/home/headlines/12106636.html

There had been a rash of break ins in the area in the months preceding the murders. Nothing major and no apparent home invasion stuff, just someone apparently prowling the area during the days and taking targets of opportunity. I think some small cash amounts, a coin collection, etc were stolen.
I think I have mentioned earlier in the last thread- my inlaws live in this area, a short distance from the Hunter home. About a year or so earlier a couple young men burst into the house and found the cleaning lady alone- they put her in a closet while they ransacked part of the house, then left. So far as I know, they never were caught. I do not think this was directly related but it does speak to the fact that this area is seen as a hunting ground by some elements in Omaha- it's an island of affluence in the process of being encompassed by inner city neighborhoods.
I have since wondered if this could have been one of those things gone wrong. They would have started out not intending to kill anyone and maybe one of the victims said or did something to trigger violent rage.

 

[Snick1946]

I don't know why, but I have this nagging feeling that this involves a blackmail attempt
by someone. Could Tom have been trying to blackmail someone or could someone have had information on Tom and they were trying to blackmail him knowing that he was from a prominent family? Did they come for the payoff and he double crossed them?

I've never really bought in to the "hired killer" theory. I think it's someone from right there in Omaha.

OR- what about: an older sibling of someone in Tom's school who found out and got evidence from one of Tom's classmates that he had been involved in illicit activities- the visit was for the purpose of collecting blackmail or perhaps to muscle in on the activity.
I still often wonder if the students that rode Tom's school bus were vetted. I seem to recall a comment shortly after the killings to the effect that Tom was a 'leader' on the bus, whatever that meant. I took it to mean that he was outgoing and friendly but maybe someone on the bus perceived it as bullying and the perp was an older sibling or family member. The method of killing- knife to the throat- coupled with the drawing of the POI would make me want to research any student perhaps of middle eastern origin who rode the bus. Stabbling in this way is suggestive of an honor killing. Did any family take such a student out of the school soon after or at the end of that school year?

 

[YellowDog]

Most murders are committed over money, sex, drugs or revenge. I found the article about the burglaries in 2007 very interesting, Snick.

What is someone broke into the house after Tom and his father left that morning but before Shirlee arrived? When Shirlee arrived unexpectedly, the burglar decided to hide out in the house until she left. Tom comes home and perhaps opens a closet door and discovers the burglar and all hell breaks loose. Just throwing a new theory for thought out there.

 

[waltzingmatilda]

One theory that we have discussed but haven't really explored or researched is the possibility of a 'thrill killing'. This article was posted on another forum by a fellow WS poster and I thought it interesting. It discusses how easily knives are obtained on the internet, etc. Here's a link.......

http://www.boston.com/news/local/breaking_news/2009/10/ap_file_photos.html

wm

 

[Snick1946]

Tom could have been on line with some psychopath who was into gaming, etc. Either he invited him over or the guy traced him online.
There would be a way to track this by LE if they haven't waited too long already. I hope they have been on this angle long before they spoke publicly of it. I hate to think they just got started on it after two years. Some of us on this thread were saying this 18 months ago.

 

[waltzingmatilda]

I certainly hope that computer forensics were not an afterthought which only began being investigated recently. I do wonder why Kangar released this tidbit to the news media in the last interview?

Surely to goodness, LE profiled Tom, the victim in whose house the murders occured. What do latchkey kids do in the interim before their parents get home from work? They do homework, eat a snack, play video games or chat on the computer to pass the time. I do hope LE was investigating this aspect from the beginning.

wm

 

[Snick1946]

One theory that we have discussed but haven't really explored or researched is the possibility of a 'thrill killing'. This article was posted on another forum by a fellow WS poster and I thought it interesting. It discusses how easily knives are obtained on the internet, etc. Here's a link.......

http://www.boston.com/news/local/breaking_news/2009/10/ap_file_photos.html

wm

I don't know if anyone reading this thread has ever read about the Leopold-Loeb 'thrill' killing in 1924. Several books and at least one movie that I know of were based on it. This was a celebrated case that took place in Chicago involving two rich, brilliant young men from prominent families that picked out a victim from among their circle of friends, a 14 year old boy; they abuducted and killed him. The only motive was a deranged desire to accomplish the ultimate crime and get away with it. Being obsessed with their own brilliance they made stupid mistakes and got caught.
I sometimes wonder about the circle of friends, colleges and even family surrounding the Hunters and if anywhere in there could have been a well hidden derranged individual. Perhaps a young adult child of some friends or collegues. Maybe someone who resented Tom for the attention he got from his parents. Maybe even a neighbor; not someone who knew the Hunters but maybe someone who lived nearby and observed their comings and goings and hated them for what he perceived as their happiness. This guy could be still out there someplace thinking he got away with it. So far, he has.
If you think about it- nothing was taken from the house. Shirlees money was left in her purse, a valuable camera and equipment was left on a table in the living room. This guy wasn't after loot and from the crime scene as we know it, this doesnt suggest a professional hit, way too personal. This could have been someone who wanted to shock and also put on a display of his brilliance. In the process he murdered an 11 year old boy and a 57 year old woman- no comment.
Worth some thought.

 

[waltzingmatilda]

I don't know if anyone reading this thread has ever read about the Leopold-Loeb 'thrill' killing in 1924. Several books and at least one movie that I know of were based on it. This was a celebrated case that took place in Chicago involving two rich, brilliant young men from prominent families that picked out a victim from among their circle of friends, a 14 year old boy; they abuducted and killed him. The only motive was a deranged desire to accomplish the ultimate crime and get away with it. Being obsessed with their own brilliance they made stupid mistakes and got caught.
I sometimes wonder about the circle of friends, colleges and even family surrounding the Hunters and if anywhere in there could have been a well hidden derranged individual. Perhaps a young adult child of some friends or collegues. Maybe someone who resented Tom for the attention he got from his parents. Maybe even a neighbor; not someone who knew the Hunters but maybe someone who lived nearby and observed their comings and goings and hated them for what he perceived as their happiness. This guy could be still out there someplace thinking he got away with it. So far, he has.
If you think about it- nothing was taken from the house. Shirlees money was left in her purse, a valuable camera and equipment was left on a table in the living room. This guy wasn't after loot and from the crime scene as we know it, this doesnt suggest a professional hit, way too personal. This could have been someone who wanted to shock and also put on a display of his brilliance. In the process he murdered an 11 year old boy and a 57 year old woman- no comment.
Worth some thought.

Gosh this Crimes Forum moves at warp speed. This thread was on pg 3.


The fact that nothing was taken from the home is puzzling, Snick. Stab wounds to the neck seem to signify wishing to silence someone. It does seem personal and I plan to research 'knife murders' to see what I learn. If anyone has any links, please share. I would be very grateful.

Here is a scenario that I've considered since hearing Sgt. Kangar's interview concerning computer forensics.

We know Tom played video games online and his game was set on pause. I think this was Tom's daily routine when he returned home from school. If this was a thrill kill could it have been connected to online gaming?

We have discussed this before in the previous thread, I know. But wish to build upon this theory and what I have learned from my SIL.

Players tend to play with the same people on a regular basis. Players wear a headset which allows them to converse with other players whether they are locals or from a great distance. The 'game speak' (I believe it was Ryuzaki who termed it 'game speak') includes talking alot of smack between the players/teams. (I was shocked to hear my SIL's game speak when I heard him playing. He is very straight laced and doesn't use profanity in the 'real world' but he sure does when he's playing these games of the cyber world.)

Let's say Tom was a whiz at these games and he or his team won most times and Tom talked smack to the opposing team. The opposing team suspected Tom of cheating, not realizing that he is a really smart kid. The 'leader' of the opposing team is really riled, a sore loser and makes a statement to other members of his team that he would like to shut Tom's mouth of the 'game speak'. Another member of the team (who may be mentally imbalanced) decides to go and do exactly that in order to win favor of the team leader and team mates. (in his demented mind).

Not exactly a gang in the traditional sense but more so a cyber gang of bullies. I do beleive this perp is intelligent enough in IT to track Tom's address regardless if he's mentally imbalanced. I think this is an adult perp, not a member of Tom's 'real life' peer group. I just don't think a kid near Tom's age could take down a child and adult and leave authorities baffled. My opinion that this killer was organized and thought this through from beginning to end so as not to leave any evidence behind.

The only other options that would make sense to me is 1) completely random murders by someone who is mad at society and the world. or 2) someone with a vendetta against one of the Drs. Hunter.

These are just some of my thoughts for today and it will probably all change tomorrow. Just trying to think outside the proverbial 'box'.

All MOO

wm

ETA I don't know why but something about Tom's game being set to pause just haunts me.

 

[YellowDog]

http://www.wowt.com/home/headlines/93586419.html

Just read about this stabbing last night in the Dundee area. Do you think there could possibly be any connection?

 

[waltzingmatilda]

http://www.wowt.com/home/headlines/93586419.html

Just read about this stabbing last night in the Dundee area. Do you think there could possibly be any connection?

YD, thanks for the link. Let's keep our eyes open for further details in this case. It is a little too vague at this point (at least for me) to determine if there could be a connection. I hope we hear some updates on this.

Hope all is well with you these days.

wm