Omaha Double Murder #2

[YellowDog]

Well, it could have even been a family member of someone who thought they should have gotten the coveted fellowship.

Interesting. Definitely would like to know the dates. But I agree. I think it's a year-long process.

Wonder when the selection process is. If the deadline for submitting is Feb 1, and the interviews are a year prior in March or April, I would imagine that the selection happens around the same time as the interviews, perhaps just after or just before (my guess is after, but perhaps I'm completely wrong). It's in the range.

I've always assumed that the students / fellows / residents were the first people checked. I remember the rumor mill in the months after being very focused on the medical students of the Hunters (both of them). Briefly came up again after the first year anniversary, but nothing since. You'd think that if it had to do with residents or fellow (singular) that it would be very easy to track down, as opposed to 19 years of students.

 

[Snick1946]

I wonder if LE checked out the families of collegues of the Hunters? Following this train of thought couldn't this easily have been an unstable family member of someone on the CU staff? I'd like to know if any other faculty members close to either Hunter has someone, say, an adult child with mental issues living with them? Someone who might have been privy to his parents' anger over some issue with being passed over. Makes you think..

 

[omaha]

I wonder if LE checked out the families of collegues of the Hunters? Following this train of thought couldn't this easily have been an unstable family member of someone on the CU staff? I'd like to know if any other faculty members close to either Hunter has someone, say, an adult child with mental issues living with them? Someone who might have been privy to his parents' anger over some issue with being passed over. Makes you think..

Perhaps not even mentally ill. Perhaps a spouse who snapped.

It's hard for me to accept revenge for not getting a job, even a highly coveted one. Thought the kicked out of med school angle was more compelling. Wish there would be SOME press pushing this forward. So frustrating.

 

[waltzingmatilda]

Perhaps not even mentally ill. Perhaps a spouse who snapped.

It's hard for me to accept revenge for not getting a job, even a highly coveted one. Thought the kicked out of med school angle was more compelling. Wish there would be SOME press pushing this forward. So frustrating.

The medical field is very demanding. It would not be beyond my realm of comprehension if a spouse of a fellow or resident snapped and blamed either Dr. Hunter for the demise of a marriage. The reason could be as simple as insecurity regarding the large amout of time spent by their spouse in pursuit of a career in medicine.

One never really knows what is going on in the mind of their spouse. That is one fact that I have learned from following cases here at WS.

wm

 

[YellowDog]

I also wonder if the Hunter family had a regular yard man and, if so, what day of the week and what time of the day he came. Mid March would be about the time of year when they start their spring clean-up around here.

 

[Snick1946]

I also wonder if the Hunter family had a regular yard man and, if so, what day of the week and what time of the day he came. Mid March would be about the time of year when they start their spring clean-up around here.

I believe I mentioned in the first thread one of my early theories; that the man with the briefcase who looked possibly Hispanic was out soliciting business for yard work and may not have even had any connection with the killings. He either didnt get a response or was sent away and the killer who came along later or was possibly already in the home then struck. He never contacted Le to clear himself because he is illegal and feared deportation.

Or, he could have been someone Shirlee knew from one of her other cleaning jobs. Someone with whom she had some business or who was dropping off something he'd borrowed, again he could have gone on his way after contact or he could have been the killer; somethig could have gone wrong. It'd be nice to know if the knives were from the kitchen as rumored. If so that would tend to suggest the killer was someone who came there for a different purpose than to kill.

It just goes on and on...

 

[shan32]

I have always felt and still do that the target here was the Hunter family...but maybe not jsut Tom. I think the killer mistook Shirlee for Dr. Mrs. Hunter. I don't have links but if you compare photos of the two women, they are somewhat similar in apperance. Similar age, hair color, and perhaps build (only judging from photos). I think thats enough for someone to make a mistake if he did not know the family well or had only seen pictures.

Also to comment on some previous posts, I am a nurse and work in a hospital. Although I do not work at Creightson, I do have some insight in to the roles of doctors of different specialties and residents, fellows, etc.

I doubt Dr. Hunter frequently (if ever) perscribes controlled substances. Cardiologists do not perform heart surgery. That job is left for cardiothoracic surgeons which is an entirely different specialty. A cardiologist may specialize in heart disease, cardiac rhythms and pacemakers (electrophysiology) or might perfrom procedures in a cardiac cath lab among other things. Most see patients with heart disease both as outpatients and inpatients. I tried to look more into what Dr. Claire might specialize in. Her name is listed on several research articles. A few are realted to different medications used to trear heart conditions, one is about cardiac "ballooning" and one is about smoking cessation and heart disease. In her role as the cardiovascular fellowship program director, Dr. Hunter probably interviews candidates for the fellowship who are already doctors as they have completed four years of medical school and then a three year residency in internal medicine. Cardiology is a subspecilty of internal medicine. Creightons website states that they accept foreign trained doctors.

 

[Snick1946]

I have always felt and still do that the target here was the Hunter family...but maybe not jsut Tom. I think the killer mistook Shirlee for Dr. Mrs. Hunter. I don't have links but if you compare photos of the two women, they are somewhat similar in apperance. Similar age, hair color, and perhaps build (only judging from photos). I think thats enough for someone to make a mistake if he did not know the family well or had only seen pictures.

Also to comment on some previous posts, I am a nurse and work in a hospital. Although I do not work at Creightson, I do have some insight in to the roles of doctors of different specialties and residents, fellows, etc.

I doubt Dr. Hunter frequently (if ever) perscribes controlled substances. Cardiologists do not perform heart surgery. That job is left for cardiothoracic surgeons which is an entirely different specialty. A cardiologist may specialize in heart disease, cardiac rhythms and pacemakers (electrophysiology) or might perfrom procedures in a cardiac cath lab among other things. Most see patients with heart disease both as outpatients and inpatients. I tried to look more into what Dr. Claire might specialize in. Her name is listed on several research articles. A few are realted to different medications used to trear heart conditions, one is about cardiac "ballooning" and one is about smoking cessation and heart disease. In her role as the cardiovascular fellowship program director, Dr. Hunter probably interviews candidates for the fellowship who are already doctors as they have completed four years of medical school and then a three year residency in internal medicine. Cardiology is a subspecilty of internal medicine. Creightons website states that they accept foreign trained doctors.

Someone who failed to get a coveted fellowship could well have had the sort of motivation involved. Perhaps not the candidate themselves but maybe an angry spouse? There was a personal twist to these killings. Some medical skill was suggested by the method of killing, I wonder if LE ever checked out the applicants for these fellowships, going back a few years?

 

[YellowDog]

If someone had it in for Dr. Hunter (Mrs.) I could see where he might mistake Shirlee for her. Could it be the fellowship was given to someone with political pull instead of the person who felt he was the most deserving, perhaps a foreign Doctor?

 

[omaha]

I have always felt and still do that the target here was the Hunter family...but maybe not jsut Tom. I think the killer mistook Shirlee for Dr. Mrs. Hunter. I don't have links but if you compare photos of the two women, they are somewhat similar in apperance. Similar age, hair color, and perhaps build (only judging from photos). I think thats enough for someone to make a mistake if he did not know the family well or had only seen pictures.

Also to comment on some previous posts, I am a nurse and work in a hospital. Although I do not work at Creightson, I do have some insight in to the roles of doctors of different specialties and residents, fellows, etc.

I doubt Dr. Hunter frequently (if ever) perscribes controlled substances. Cardiologists do not perform heart surgery. That job is left for cardiothoracic surgeons which is an entirely different specialty. A cardiologist may specialize in heart disease, cardiac rhythms and pacemakers (electrophysiology) or might perfrom procedures in a cardiac cath lab among other things. Most see patients with heart disease both as outpatients and inpatients. I tried to look more into what Dr. Claire might specialize in. Her name is listed on several research articles. A few are realted to different medications used to trear heart conditions, one is about cardiac "ballooning" and one is about smoking cessation and heart disease. In her role as the cardiovascular fellowship program director, Dr. Hunter probably interviews candidates for the fellowship who are already doctors as they have completed four years of medical school and then a three year residency in internal medicine. Cardiology is a subspecilty of internal medicine. Creightons website states that they accept foreign trained doctors.

Very good perspective. Will keep digging on the Cardiology front.

From what I can tell, Shirlee was older than Dr. Mrs. Hunter, but that doesn't necessarily mean much. I think if the killer was familiar with the Hunters, and targeting them, it would be an odd time to "confuse" Shirlee for Dr. Hunter, as they would likely be familiar enough with the target to tell the difference. Also, it's worth noting that the time of the murder was way too early for either of the doctors (assuming they keep normal doctor hours, and that Dr. Hunter's comment in earlier stories that he came home at his normal time) to normally be home. That isn't to say that they couldn't have made a mistake.

 

[YellowDog]

But remember, Dr. (Mrs.) Hunter was out of town at the time. If the killer was someone's relative, he might not have know exactly what she looked like.

And maybe her car was in the drive indicating to him that she was home. Maybe someone else took her to the airport.

Or perhaps, when he saw Shirlee, he had already killed the boy, realized she was not Dr. Hunter and did not want a witness.

There are so many angles to this crazy case.

Very good perspective. Will keep digging on the Cardiology front.

From what I can tell, Shirlee was older than Dr. Mrs. Hunter, but that doesn't necessarily mean much. I think if the killer was familiar with the Hunters, and targeting them, it would be an odd time to "confuse" Shirlee for Dr. Hunter, as they would likely be familiar enough with the target to tell the difference. Also, it's worth noting that the time of the murder was way too early for either of the doctors (assuming they keep normal doctor hours, and that Dr. Hunter's comment in earlier stories that he came home at his normal time) to normally be home. That isn't to say that they couldn't have made a mistake.

 

[omaha]

But remember, Dr. (Mrs.) Hunter was out of town at the time. If the killer was someone's relative, he might not have know exactly what she looked like.

And maybe her car was in the drive indicating to him that she was home. Maybe someone else took her to the airport.

Or perhaps, when he saw Shirlee, he had already killed the boy, realized she was not Dr. Hunter and did not want a witness.

There are so many angles to this crazy case.

Totally agreed.

 

[YellowDog]

I'm also thinking that if the killer called Dr. Hunter's (Mrs.) office and was told she was out of the office, he might have just assumed that she would be home that day.

I hope they have checked the phone records at both of the doctors' offices on calls that came in that day.

 

[Snick1946]

I'm also thinking that if the killer called Dr. Hunter's (Mrs.) office and was told she was out of the office, he might have just assumed that she would be home that day.

I hope they have checked the phone records at both of the doctors' offices on calls that came in that day.

Well, I don't claim to be psychic, have visions or whatever. But after reading your post I had a flash- let's say as you said someone with a chip on their shoulder was trying to track down Claire Hunter. Calling her office he/she is told they are out. So they go to the house. We have been told by family that Shirlee would probably not have answered the door, but perhaps the side door was unlocked or maybe Tom went to the door while upstairs getting a snack. The perp pushes in and starts arguing with Shirlee, thinking it's Claire. She retreats into the kitchen, telling the intruder to leave, maybe picks up the phone to call 911. At that point the perp panics and either attacks her with a knife brought in originally just to threaten, or more likely, grabs one from the kitchen counter. This may well have been either a med student or someone with medical training. They quickly kill Shirlee then persue Tom into the dining room. He is killed as a wittness. The perp leaves, thinking they killed the doctor and her son.

I agree that LE should have checked all incoming calls that day or even earlier to Claire's office. The perp could well have been either someone denied a fellowhip or in my mind, more likely, the spouse or SO of such a medical student. I hope it's not too late to go back and do so if not already..

 

[omaha]

Well, I don't claim to be psychic, have visions or whatever. But after reading your post I had a flash- let's say as you said someone with a chip on their shoulder was trying to track down Claire Hunter. Calling her office he/she is told they are out. So they go to the house. We have been told by family that Shirlee would probably not have answered the door, but perhaps the side door was unlocked or maybe Tom went to the door while upstairs getting a snack. The perp pushes in and starts arguing with Shirlee, thinking it's Claire. She retreats into the kitchen, telling the intruder to leave, maybe picks up the phone to call 911. At that point the perp panics and either attacks her with a knife brought in originally just to threaten, or more likely, grabs one from the kitchen counter. This may well have been either a med student or someone with medical training. They quickly kill Shirlee then persue Tom into the dining room. He is killed as a wittness. The perp leaves, thinking they killed the doctor and her son.

I agree that LE should have checked all incoming calls that day or even earlier to Claire's office. The perp could well have been either someone denied a fellowhip or in my mind, more likely, the spouse or SO of such a medical student. I hope it's not too late to go back and do so if not already..

I can definitely follow this theory, and think it is highly likely. Only thing I think would be more likely, is that if someone came with the intent to kill (just MO based on how they were killed), I think someone with that much malice or phycopathy would plan everything, and would definitely not rely on knives happening to be available. Definitely think they brought their own to make it more personal. JMO.

 

[geojeffrey]

I know this has been discussed before, but to me the issue of the reward is significant.

What would motivate one family ($ and standing in the community) to add nothing to the reward, while another (lower income and ordinary--like most of us) does not?

I wonder if the Hunters have a general understanding that this was a targeted event, so why bother with the reward--and even worse--it could aggravate the murderer.

 

[thesaint]

I know this has been discussed before, but to me the issue of the reward is significant.

What would motivate one family ($ and standing in the community) to add nothing to the reward, while another (lower income and ordinary--like most of us) does not?

I wonder if the Hunters have a general understanding that this was a targeted event, so why bother with the reward--and even worse--it could aggravate the murderer.

there's an obvious/simple/awful possibility here that usually gets more attention in most murder investigations, in fact is the first line of inquiry in most murder investigations.

 

[geojeffrey]

Are you referring to the first tier of possible suspects being a family member?

 

[omaha]

Are you referring to the first tier of possible suspects being a family member?

Unfortunately we can't know how closely the immediate family were looked at. One presumes that was the first place to look. Even if they all had alibis, it would take a long time to look for motivation, checking financial records, etc. Especially if there was no motivation other than something directly between the victim and the killer – private argument, shared knowledge, etc. I think usually in crimes within families, the potential suspect is called out pretty quickly, or it's apparent. What'd odd here is the lack of evidence, or motive. Then there's the person who was seen. If they were hired by a member of the family, that'd stand out. But I agree, this should have been the first thing they look at, and continue to monitor for slip-ups.

Wonder if someone known only to the victim had been the killer, or hired the killer. I think that's probably what they were looking at through Thomas's online activity. Scary stuff.

 

[YellowDog]

It is strange that the Hunter family has not been more vocal about these murders and that they haven't (as far as we know) contributed to the reward fund.

I also think it would be very difficult to continue living in a house where two such gruesome murders occurred.