OR OR - David 'Dave' Lewis, 46, Ashland, 4 September 2008

[Red Clover]

The vicious murders of Dave Lewis and Troy Carney have a direct link.

RS&BBM
IME & IMOO-- The direct link is likely the gun(s) that the person who David "expected to just show up" brought with them from a state to the north that took approximately 49 hours-7-10 days to drive from.

 

[Sleuth2010]

Law enforcement confiscated guns a few miles from Dave's cabin, from a " former friend " of Dave's. An employee of the lake. His wife " hid out" during a 4th of July tent gathering.

There were 4 polygraphed.

Maybe facts and factors ? Not opinions and red herrings.

imo moo

 

[Red Clover]

Law enforcement confiscated guns a few miles from Dave's cabin, from a " former friend " of Dave's. An employee of the lake. His wife " hid out" during a 4th of July tent gathering.

There were 4 polygraphed.

Maybe facts and factors ? Not opinions and red herrings.

imo moo

Interesting, are you able to elaborate?

Are you aware of the results from these four polygraphs?

Do you know if anyone in Dave's family or extended family took polygraphs?

Edited to add: Were the guns ever connected to the murders of David or TDC?



JMO

 

[Red Clover]

I am wondering-- all statements are IMOO

DID the person who David expected "to just show up" have the means to travel to the Rogue Valley by vehicle and arrive by Labor Day weekend 2008? JMO

Did this person camp out along the way and utilize truck stops similar to the Plot Truck Stop? JMO

Did this person know Troy from his time he worked in the valley 10 years previously? JMO

Did this person encounter Troy at the Truck Stop? JMO

IIRC & AFAIK- Besides Troy's friend GG that he stayed with initially, his mom has told me that he mentioned seeing a woman he used to know while he was here, someone he had worked with at a place that made baklava. Possibly Harry & David's?? JMO

This person that David expected "to just show up" was in direct communication with LW IN THE DAYS FOLLOWING TROY & DAVE'S DEATHS, IIRC in one their first contacts with LW, this person stated that IF they were to travel to the Rogue Valley for Dave's memorial that their own family members (not entirely clear who exactly) WOULD THINK THEY DID IT (murdered Dave!) WHAAT??!! JMO

My question was and has been--
WHY would this person's family member(s) think that or say that unless this person had been in the valley at the time of Dave's death OR were known to be a danger or a menace to Dave? JMO

Why?

This is one of the more inexplicable "facts" in this case. JMO

Why would ANYONE say that??!! JMO

What factors were these family members aware of to think or say that? JMO

Why would the person that David was expecting to "just show up" say that to Troy's mom, LW? (LW is VERY CLEAR ON THIS FACT-this indeed was said and relayed to me in recent personal communications) JMO

IMOO- SPECULATION BASED ON PREVIOUS COMMENTS IN THIS THREAD--

Did this person give Troy a ride to Hyatt Lake or up the mountain to help David make a firewood delivery?
AFAIK, TDC did not have a vehicle. IMOO

What about TDC being witnessed at Hyatt Lake?
By whom?
When?
On Labor Day?
Another red herring? IMOO

AFAIK-- IF Troy was actually seen at Hyatt Lake he didn't speak with his mom about it. He last spoke with her on Labor Day in the afternoon/evening of 9/1. IMOO

IIRC-- Troy was murdered that night or in the early morning of 9/2/2008 per Troy's mom's WS posts and from what she has relayed to me in our recent personal communications. IMOO

IMOO-- Lots of facts that need to be followed up on and people that need to be interviewed or reinterviewed.

AS ALWAYS ALL STATEMENTS ARE IME & JMO & IMOO & AFAIK & IIRC

 

[Sleuth2010]

Lilibet:
Sounds like answers are elsewhere.
We have been pretty basic about Dave's death:

Who he was. Where he lived and how permanent he was in the community. How loved he is/was/ and always will be.
What he loved doing ( riding motorbikes, making art, talking, laughing, working hard ( and where)
and how he was concerned about being death threatened ( where, when, and who / all was witnessed) and his nickname!!!
Who he had a hateful, contentious relationship with, that they were constantly near his 3 sons (who, as their Dad, Dave was endlessly trying to gain full custody of)

and the facts. Just the facts.

We have stated clearly, all Dave's siblings and relatives have been cleared. Especially his sisters, brother, namesake and relatives. That Dave's parents, knew of his suffering from his divorce and the worrisome follow-up that ensued. That his mother ( who RC announced here, committed suicide) was worried daily about her beloved son. Rightfully so. Who defends a registered child CHILD molester. She knew her grandsons were being raised by them.

More clear facts, we brought forward:

That then-sheriff Michael Winters "effected" the investigation. That an expensive, neutral, outside review, heavily disparaged and factually stated his overall inabilities. That concerned many regarding David's murder case. Then and now.

It's 16 years cold case. It should never have "gone frigid" as we were told.

We have been quite clear on "some" of the facts we are familiar with. We the family ( sister, other sister, brother, Oregon kin, Alaska family and Delaware family) were told facts. By men and women, on-the-front-line, competent, boots and heels on the ground, investigators and detectives. Others too.

We want justice and arrests of all those knowledgeable, accomplice, involved, or gun man, for David Edwin Lewis. Who lit the match ?

Murderers walk free. The lit Dave Lewis' body on fire !!! It's called and charged as, "abuse of a corpse."

Beloved son, brother, father and friend.

JUSTICE 4 Dave E. Lewis

I am wondering-- all statements are IMOO

DID the person who David expected "to just show up" have the means to travel to the Rogue Valley by vehicle and arrive by Labor Day weekend 2008? JMO

Did this person camp out along the way and utilize truck stops similar to the Plot Truck Stop? JMO

Did this person know Troy from his time he worked in the valley 10 years previously? JMO

Did this person encounter Troy at the Truck Stop? JMO

IIRC & AFAIK- Besides Troy's friend GG that he stayed with initially, his mom has told me that he mentioned seeing a woman he used to know while he was here, someone he had worked with at a place that made baklava. Possibly Harry & David's?? JMO

This person that David expected "to just show up" was in direct communication with LW IN THE DAYS FOLLOWING TROY & DAVE'S DEATHS, IIRC in one their first contacts with LW, this person stated that IF they were to travel to the Rogue Valley for Dave's memorial that their own family members (not entirely clear who exactly) WOULD THINK THEY DID IT (murdered Dave!) WHAAT??!! JMO

My question was and has been--
WHY would this person's family member(s) think that or say that unless this person had been in the valley at the time of Dave's death OR were known to be a danger or a menace to Dave? JMO

Why?

This is one of the more inexplicable "facts" in this case. JMO

Why would ANYONE say that??!! JMO

What factors were these family members aware of to think or say that? JMO

Why would the person that David was expecting to "just show up" say that to Troy's mom, LW? (LW is VERY CLEAR ON THIS FACT-this indeed was said and relayed to me in recent personal communications) JMO

IMOO- SPECULATION BASED ON PREVIOUS COMMENTS IN THIS THREAD--

Did this person give Troy a ride to Hyatt Lake or up the mountain to help David make a firewood delivery?
AFAIK, TDC did not have a vehicle. IMOO

What about TDC being witnessed at Hyatt Lake?
By whom?
When?
On Labor Day?
Another red herring? IMOO

AFAIK-- IF Troy was actually seen at Hyatt Lake he didn't speak with his mom about it. He last spoke with her on Labor Day in the afternoon/evening of 9/1. IMOO

IIRC-- Troy was murdered that night or in the early morning of 9/2/2008 per Troy's mom's WS posts and from what she has relayed to me in our recent personal communications. IMOO

IMOO-- Lots of facts that need to be followed up on and people that need to be interviewed or reinterviewed.

AS ALWAYS ALL STATEMENTS ARE IME & JMO & IMOO & AFAIK & IIRC

imo moo

 

[Lilibet]

referencing Dave's sister: "just showing up." that's out. in left field.

Red Clover are you saying that Dave's sister murdered her brother, Troy, arsoned 4 (only 3 you are aware of) different locations ( including totally engulfing 2 cabins) misled the professional law enforcement investigators, (fyi: she didn't have a motive, means, opportunity or gain) then had weekly, monthly, yearly contact with Troy's mother ???

You're stating Dave's sister murdered him. Shame. Red Herrings. Read the handwriting on the wall.

BBM

@Sleuth2010 Please help me out here. Three times you’ve indicated that @Red Clover is implicating Dave’s sister (who ever that is) in Dave’s murder, (and now also Troy’s). I have reread @red Clover’s posts and I can’t find any reference to Dave’s sister. I guess I’m not seeing what you see, as I’m not an insider. But you seem to be “connecting the dots” in her posts to reach this conclusion. I’d be much obliged if you could clear up my confusion.

I’ve also asked previously about the fourth fire you’ve referred to and not received an answer. If Red Clover is accusing “Dave’s sister” of four fires, but is only aware of three (as you state), how can that be?

Thanks so much for your help!

JMO

 

[Red Clover]

DBM

 

[Gemmie]

Again, through recent personal communication I have become aware that the person that Dave "expected to just show up" asked Troy's mom if the person that offered Troy the firewood job could have been Dave.

OK. I just had a WTH moment times 2.

1) First of all, why would the person Dave expected "to just show up" (and may have done just that) talk to Troy's mom about the firewood job? That seems more than odd to me.

2) How would the person that was "expected to just show up" even know that Troy HAD that firewood delivering job???

What is the connection between those 3 individuals? (Dave, Troy and "person expected to just show up")?

Lastly, why would the "person expected to just show up" be trying to link Dave to Troy? What would that link even be? It would have to be more than firewood delivery the day of or just before their murders.

Any idea when that person asked Troy's mom about that? The day the news got out about the 2 deaths and fires? Days/weeks/months later? If immediately, it really sets off my hinky meter and makes me go Hmmmm...

I have also become aware that this same person also went to the Pilot Truck Stop at some point in the weeks following Troy & Dave's deaths and asked questions of the employees there and IMO and that of LE-- interfered in Troy's investigation.

More WTHs from me. Why would the "person expected to just show up" be snooping around asking Q's of truck stop employees about TROY? All these questions from the "person expected to just show up" is really puzzling as to motive. They wanted something, but what exactly? And more than what... WHY?

This same person said things to Troy's mom that were not only unhelpful and distressing but have been described to me as "cruel" including this person accusing Troy's mom of having enough time to travel from Florida to Oregon and back in order to kill her own son. Yes. This person said this to a grieving mother. I have no reason to lie about anything here. None. Zero. Zilch.

That's.... odd. But we're back to that this was the "person expected to just show up". WHY would the "person expected to just show up" at DAVE'S accuse Troy's mom of driving there from FL to kill her own son??? WHY would the "person expected to just show up" care more about Troy's murder, and who committed it, than DAVE'S murder???

Sign me Puzzled to the Nth degree. Something seems very off here.

 

[Gemmie]

RS&BBM

What if this person didn't "plan" to kill Dave but only planned to confront him about sharing his portion of his parent's inheritance money?

Maybe they were just trying to scare him or something. JMO

What if this person wasn't thinking about all the personal possessions and precious memories that would be destroyed but were only concerned that they get their own way in the moment?

It's VERY possible IMO, that this person did NOT intend to kill Dave OR set fire to his home but things got out of hand and once the fire started there was no going back.

ALL IMOO AND IME

+1

I too have thought that things might have just simply evolved into what transpired, with no thought to Dave's possessions and family mementos. I do not believe there was any thought into what might be destroyed that family might want to keep. IMO, any thought, since Dave was shot and then burned, was to destroy any evidence. All MOO

 

[Lilibet]

2) How would the person that was "expected to just show up" even know that Troy HAD that firewood delivering job???

I assume Troy’s Mom must have mentioned the offer of a firewood delivering job to the “person that was expected to just show up” at some point during their conversations.

The rest of your questions I can’t come up with any theories about without violating TOS.

JMO

 

[Red Clover]

OK. I just had a WTH moment times 2.

1) First of all, why would the person Dave expected "to just show up" (and may have done just that) talk to Troy's mom about the firewood job? That seems more than odd to me.

2) How would the person that was "expected to just show up" even know that Troy HAD that firewood delivering job???

What is the connection between those 3 individuals? (Dave, Troy and "person expected to just show up")?

Lastly, why would the "person expected to just show up" be trying to link Dave to Troy? What would that link even be? It would have to be more than firewood delivery the day of or just before their murders.

Any idea when that person asked Troy's mom about that? The day the news got out about the 2 deaths and fires? Days/weeks/months later? If immediately, it really sets off my hinky meter and makes me go Hmmmm...

More WTHs from me. Why would the "person expected to just show up" be snooping around asking Q's of truck stop employees about TROY? All these questions from the "person expected to just show up" is really puzzling as to motive. They wanted something, but what exactly? And more than what... WHY?

That's.... odd. But we're back to that this was the "person expected to just show up". WHY would the "person expected to just show up" at DAVE'S accuse Troy's mom of driving there from FL to kill her own son??? WHY would the "person expected to just show up" care more about Troy's murder, and who committed it, than DAVE'S murder???

Sign me Puzzled to the Nth degree. Something seems very off here.

Ding ️ Ding ️ Ding ️
These are the exact same questions and concerns that LW has relayed to me about this series of events.

I don't have exact dates in front of me but LW was contacted by "the person who Dave was expecting to just show up" shortly after my mom @dreamweaver had reached out to LW to help her set up emails and social media for Troy, probably between the 7th-11th of September 2008. LW told me that my mom got her email from someone at the Jackson County Sheriff's Office. LW has also told me that my mom @dreamweaver never spoke with her about Dave's case and that she (LW) never asked ANYONE about Dave's case, she only cared about her own son Troy and only tolerated the contact with "the person Dave expected to just show up" in order to glean any possible tidbit about what may have happened to Troy.

Like you are pointing out @Gemmie this person had what LW described as an "obsession" with Troy, and was always trying to make connections between Dave & Troy that were just not there (per my recent communication with LW).

The only possible connection, IMO, between Troy & Dave, AS FAR AS I CAN TELL, is the "person David expected to just show up"



JMO & IME

 

[Red Clover]

I assume Troy’s Mom must have mentioned the offer of a firewood delivering job to the “person that was expected to just show up” at some point during their conversations.

The rest of your questions I can’t come up with any theories about without violating TOS.

JMO

Yes. From what I understand, IIRC, Troy had told his mom that someone had offered him a partial days work delivering firewood (no details as to who made the offer or where the delivery was to) so that he could make some $$ to get out of the valley since he wasn't finding work. She (LW) told me that she offered to send Troy $100 so he could take the bus up to the Willamette Valley and not have to take what sounded like a sketchy firewood job, but she said he never picked up the money, she sent it that night he was killed.

Edited to add:
LW IS ADAMANT THAT TROY & DAVE DID NOT KNOW ONE ANOTHER


ALL JMO & IME

 

[Gemmie]

I assume Troy’s Mom must have mentioned the offer of a firewood delivering job to the “person that was expected to just show up” at some point during their conversations.

The rest of your questions I can’t come up with any theories about without violating TOS.

JMO

I don't know... the way @Red Clover put it in their post "through recent personal communication I have become aware that the person that Dave "expected to just show up" asked Troy's mom if the person that offered Troy the firewood job could have been Dave." makes me think the "person that was just "expected to show up" asked LW that Q, without LW telling some stranger that contacted her out of the blue asking Q's about her son, that her son had a firewood delivery job, that he cancelled due to LW wiring him some money.

I could be very wrong about that. I'm think @Red Clover might know the answer.

 

[Red Clover]

I don't know... the way @Red Clover put it in their post "through recent personal communication I have become aware that the person that Dave "expected to just show up" asked Troy's mom if the person that offered Troy the firewood job could have been Dave." makes me think the "person that was just "expected to show up" asked LW that Q, without LW telling some stranger that contacted her out of the blue asking Q's about her son, that her son had a firewood delivery job, that he cancelled due to LW wiring him some money.

I could be very wrong about that. I'm think @Red Clover might know the answer.

IIRC, there was a series of conversations between LW & this person and the subject of the firewood delivery job offer came up at some point (I'm not clear on exactly when) and "the person Dave expected to just show up" asked LW if the firewood person could have been Dave. From what I understand there were frequent attempts to connect Troy & Dave by this person on multiple occasions over time.

I hope that helps clarify.


Edited to add: IMOO & IME

 

[Lilibet]

I don't know... the way @Red Clover put it in their post "through recent personal communication I have become aware that the person that Dave "expected to just show up" asked Troy's mom if the person that offered Troy the firewood job could have been Dave." makes me think the "person that was just "expected to show up" asked LW that Q, without LW telling some stranger that contacted her out of the blue asking Q's about her son, that her son had a firewood delivery job, that he cancelled due to LW wiring him some money.

I could be very wrong about that. I'm think @Red Clover might know the answer.

I think we’re saying the same thing LOL, but I’m lost and I probably didn’t word it right.

 

[Gemmie]

@Sleuth2010 - I know how much you've been seeking justice for Dave since day 1, and all the research you've done, and you sure want and need answers. I'm curious if you've ever reached out to Troy's mom and shared info (both ways) since there were similarities in their murders? If not, why not? If so, anything learned that you can share here that hasn't already been discussed? People care and want to help solve your brothers murder. Information and understanding of facts helps us all do that. With our combined heads tackling this we might be able to come up with something that wasn't considered by the detectives, and perhaps get that ball rolling again. I'd hate to think this will become an unsolved cold case. I feel in my heart of hearts that it's very solvable.

 

[Sleuth2010]

BBM

@Sleuth2010 Please help me out here. Three times you’ve indicated that @Red Clover is implicating Dave’s sister (who ever that is) in Dave’s murder, (and now also Troy’s). I have reread @red Clover’s posts and I can’t find any reference to Dave’s sister. I guess I’m not seeing what you see, as I’m not an insider. But you seem to be “connecting the dots” in her posts to reach this conclusion. I’d be much obliged if you could clear up my confusion.

I’ve also asked previously about the fourth fire you’ve referred to and not received an answer. If Red Clover is accusing “Dave’s sister” of four fires, but is only aware of three (as you state), how can that be?

Thanks so much for your help!

JMO

There was a 4th fire. Emigrant Lake area " hay shack." Previously posted...

Maybe RC can clear up : just-show-up up?
etc etc etc etc etc etc etc just showing up. (thou doth protest too much).

Redherring. RCH repeatedly indicates (Dave's sister ) ... so RCH could explain.

post script: all of Dave's siblings were cleared, due to the truth and geographical location, plus, good law enforcement and great detectives have evidence and facts.

But, all the websleuths want to know RC

///

 

[Sleuth2010]

Dave Lewis memorial roc. Cemetery on Normal Street, Ashland Oregon.
Across from the ballpark that he loved.

 

[Lilibet]

There was a 4th fire. Emigrant Lake area " hay shack." Previously posted...

Maybe RC can clear up : just-show-up up?
etc etc etc etc etc etc etc just showing up. (thou doth protest too much).

Redherring. RCH repeatedly indicates (Dave's sister ) ... so RCH could explain.

post script: all of Dave's siblings were cleared, due to the truth and geographical location, plus, good law enforcement and great detectives have evidence and facts.

But, all the websleuths want to know RC

///

Thanks so much for clearing up the fourth fire @Sleuth2010. I don’t recall mention of a “hay shack” or I wouldn’t have kept asking about it. A link to the post would be helpful. I assume it was at the same time as the other fires or it wouldn’t be relevant.

I know RC is Red Clover, but I can’t think who RCH is. I have never seen anyone accuse Dave’s sister or any other family member and I’ve been here a long time. Are you reading between the lines or something? I recall that you mentioned Dave’s sibs have been cleared. And of course, we all need to abide by TOS, and can’t accuse anyone directly until LE mentions a POI or suspect. Sorry to be so dense, but I’m just trying to understand why you think Dave’s sister has been accused here. We all want Justice for Dave or we wouldn’t be here.

JMO

 

[Sleuth2010]

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