OR - 'Extreme Makeover' family accused of medical child abuse

[not_my_kids]

NMKs--Thank you for sharing that story. It must have been an awful experience and so confusing for a child. Your mother sounds like a textbook case. FWIW, I'm starting to think that one can't be diagnosed as it is not listed in the DSM-IV. I think that's why Oregon called it "medical abuse". Your mother, as so many others, took a very real medical issue and ran with it. I admire you greatly for having the objectivity to recognize her disorder and how it affected your life. I am so pleased that you were able to shut her down. Were you the only victim of this treatment or did she do this to others? Did she have a tendency to falsify or exaggerate her own ailments for attention? And just curious, do you happen to know if she was sexually abused or seriously traumatized as a child?

I highly recommend that you read the book, "Sickened", as it is your story to a T. Julie Gregory's mother raced from doctor to doctor looking for any possible diagnosis for her healthy daughter. Julie marginally went along with the plan as it was the only way she could get attention from her very mentally ill and physically violent mom. When she got a diagnosis and the medication or special diet to go with it, she reacted exactly as your mother did--she secretly contradicted it. When Julie was diagnosed with high blood sugar, she poured sweetened cereals and soda into her. When she was given psychotropics, they were only dispensed sporadically, which totally messed up Julie's mind and bloodwork. Julie was literally ordered to lie to doctors that the meds were taken as directed and diets followed scrupulously. On the way to every doctor's appt., Julie would be drilled as to what to say and then rewarded with sweets and attention. If she told the truth, she suffered her mother's wrath. When her father tried to step in, he was violently attacked. Julie's mom totally ruled the roost.

When I read Julie's book, I wanted to share it with every caseworker I know. If they didn't have a copy, I bought one for them. I was surprised to hear back from one man who is a certifier for DDS. He shared that while in social work classes in college, his class was shown videos from hospitals which clearly showed mothers injecting substances in IVs, etc. So, he was aware of the disease. However, I still think that most think of this disorder as one which only occurs in a hospital setting. They don't know about the abuse at home or the doctor "shopping" and the blatant lying.

There's a very disturbing twist at the end of Gregory's book. The upshot is that the disorder never goes away. The victim must remove herself or be removed or the cycle will begin again. Being that Terri Cerda's mother seems to have displayed some level of Munchausen Syndrome, I have to wonder if it can carry over to the victim. We haven't seen it at all in our child. He/she is totally healthy and rarely complains about ailments. Julie Gregory seems to have healed through her writing her stories.

I was under the impression that the disorder was primarily caused by a mother who suffered unresolved trauma and who desperately sought attention by projecting her pain on her children--typically a daughter with some mild and highly treatable illness. I'm starting to wonder if the cycle can continue if not caught and the victim treated and removed from the abusive situation.

Once again, I really appreciate you sharing your personal experience. I really wonder how many people are silent victims of this form of abuse. I'd love to see some sort of support group or forum for those who have lived through this unique type of hell. My guess is that victims/survivors could spot a case a mile off. I'm so sorry you had this experience and as always, I'm impressed with your tenacity and strength to rise above.

I have a suspicion that she also did the same to my grandmother, but I have no way to verify that. When I was 15, my grandmother perforated her bowel (I am not sure how) and required surgery for it. My mother was her next of kin. My grandmother was 88 years old and the doctors warned her that due to her advanced age, there was a good chance that she would have problems coming out from under the anesthetic. She did, and in fact, never woke up fully again after the surgery. My mother was advised that there was no significant brain activity and that my grandmother was being kept alive by the machines and that it was only her body that was alive. Her mind was gone. My mother, who has always been a bit utilitarian, did not disconnect the machines until the insurance refused to pay any longer. I have my suspicions that while she left my grandmother on those machines, she was not making her sicker, but was rather enjoying the attention and sympathy from those that say her as a dedicated daughter. I feel she used my grandmothers misfortune to make herself feel and look better to others.

She didn't exaggerate about her own health when she was running me to every doctor in town, but she does now. A tiny cyst on her ovary became a huge cancerous lump that might require a hysterectomy. A minor bout of bronchitis became emphysema. A rather nasty but routine bout of stomach flu became stomach cancer, yet she was never treated for any of the more serious conditions listed above.

I don't believe that she was sexually abused as a child, although I don't know for sure. She wouldn't tell me, even if I asked. She was traumatized. She was a rather difficult teenager, and at the age of 14, my grandmother pronounced her a lost cause and placed her in a girls home, where they were allowed to prescribe and test medications. I believe that had a large part of it. One of the few claims that she has been able to prove to me is that she was one of the first test cases for the drug now known as Ritalin, and if you ask me, that had a part in her later life nueroses and psychoses.

I haven't read thebook, but I will certainly look into getting it. Thank you, I hadn't even heard of it.

 

[Missizzy]

It's so tragic and pitiful and so terribly misunderstood. You really have to wonder if it could be stopped and turned around with the right therapy and medication, if caught in time. So your mother did have childhood trauma. I've always assumed that most women had some sort of sexual abuse as that was my experience with all three women I knew. However, when you think about it, any sort of loss of control could do it. And you have to wonder just why your mother was acting out to a degree that she would be sent to a treatment home. Not all mothers will disclose past abuse, that's for sure.

My mother didn't disclose her own sexual abuse to me until I was in my late 30s and it explained SO much. The moment she told me, I was able to forgive her for so many wrongs. She was also tremendously controlling and over-protective and I was her only child. Never abusive or attention seeking but had to control every little detail of my life. I know it sounds silly but I honestly did not truly think for myself until I was thirty years old and had five children!! Control is such an insidious factor and is never benign. Some have to have it. And some spend years crawling out from under it. Even now that my mother has Alzheimer's and doesn't know my voice, I'm still her daughter. You'd never catch me leaving a sock on the floor or a dish in the sink. Heck no. Momma might come in. It doesn't matter that she's 2000 miles away in a nursing home in Texas and I'm on a mountaintop in Oregon. Those things are forever imprinted. I never raised my voice, I never rebelled, I was as compliant as can be but it was never compliant enough. When I finally grew up, my husband and I moved across the country and it felt like we'd gone to shangri-la. We felt like we had so much freedom. LOL, we had 5 kids!! I love her but I had to learn to stand on my own two feet. I try not to ever complain about my mother because she was a saint compared to so many I read about and I have no doubt she made me strong. She did teach me acceptance and compassion. I think as time went on, she became proud of me. She simply never addressed and resolved her childhood abuse (at the hands of her Baptist minister father). When I finally found my voice, I never stopped speaking out. I guess I'm here on WS partly due to her abuse. To her credit, she was exceptionally kind and caring when our children were raped. She understood.

I really cannot overemphasize how much I learned from reading Julie's book. If I could, I'd send you a copy. It's that good. I liked it because Julie wasn't playing the victim "card". She came across as a struggling survivor from page one. I actually read it twice as I wanted to take notes the second time. I hope med and social work students are required to read it. In fact, I really wish they'd make a documentary about it. I have a feeling that there are multitudes of secret victims out there thinking they are alone.

If these two girls are as bright as they are portrayed by Terri (and I'm unsure about that), there's going to come a day that one or both might rebel. That's when things get really nasty.

I'm still incredulous that Oregon went with the one competent parent route and then Terri took off with the kids. That worries me.

The dynamics of the mother/daughter relationship is one of the most powerful forces in our world. Nobody comes out unscathed, do they?

 

[not_my_kids]

It's so tragic and pitiful and so terribly misunderstood. You really have to wonder if it could be stopped and turned around with the right therapy and medication, if caught in time. So your mother did have childhood trauma. I've always assumed that most women had some sort of sexual abuse as that was my experience with all three women I knew. However, when you think about it, any sort of loss of control could do it. And you have to wonder just why your mother was acting out to a degree that she would be sent to a treatment home. Not all mothers will disclose past abuse, that's for sure.

My mother didn't disclose her own sexual abuse to me until I was in my late 30s and it explained SO much. The moment she told me, I was able to forgive her for so many wrongs. She was also tremendously controlling and over-protective and I was her only child. Never abusive or attention seeking but had to control every little detail of my life. I know it sounds silly but I honestly did not truly think for myself until I was thirty years old and had five children!! Control is such an insidious factor and is never benign. Some have to have it. And some spend years crawling out from under it. Even now that my mother has Alzheimer's and doesn't know my voice, I'm still her daughter. You'd never catch me leaving a sock on the floor or a dish in the sink. Heck no. Momma might come in. It doesn't matter that she's 2000 miles away in a nursing home in Texas and I'm on a mountaintop in Oregon. Those things are forever imprinted. I never raised my voice, I never rebelled, I was as compliant as can be but it was never compliant enough. When I finally grew up, my husband and I moved across the country and it felt like we'd gone to shangri-la. We felt like we had so much freedom. LOL, we had 5 kids!! I love her but I had to learn to stand on my own two feet. I try not to ever complain about my mother because she was a saint compared to so many I read about and I have no doubt she made me strong. She did teach me acceptance and compassion. I think as time went on, she became proud of me. She simply never addressed and resolved her childhood abuse (at the hands of her Baptist minister father). When I finally found my voice, I never stopped speaking out. I guess I'm here on WS partly due to her abuse. To her credit, she was exceptionally kind and caring when our children were raped. She understood.

I really cannot overemphasize how much I learned from reading Julie's book. If I could, I'd send you a copy. It's that good. I liked it because Julie wasn't playing the victim "card". She came across as a struggling survivor from page one. I actually read it twice as I wanted to take notes the second time. I hope med and social work students are required to read it. In fact, I really wish they'd make a documentary about it. I have a feeling that there are multitudes of secret victims out there thinking they are alone.

If these two girls are as bright as they are portrayed by Terri (and I'm unsure about that), there's going to come a day that one or both might rebel. That's when things get really nasty.

I'm still incredulous that Oregon went with the one competent parent route and then Terri took off with the kids. That worries me.

The dynamics of the mother/daughter relationship is one of the most powerful forces in our world. Nobody comes out unscathed, do they?

I think the control was my mother's issue, and I see it in other MPB cases, but maybe because I'm looking for it. When my mom had me, she was 27, when the first real problem with my health was diagnosed, she was 29. She holds a bachelors degree in general education, and yet her highest paying job at that time had been delivering pizzas. We both lived with my grandmother, who was very controlling, my mother had to borrow the car from her mother to even go to work. Then my father disappeared when I was 2, he wouldn't return until I was five and then only to say bye to her, since he was going to prison. My mother had no control over anything in her life from a very young age. But when she was in the doctors office, she was the real expert, since she was the only one that saw all these terrible things going on with my health.

As I've said before, when I was 5, my mother had to get a babysitter for me, and that woman became my adopted mother. Not legally, but in every way that counts. She was able to tell me how sick my mother was without making me think less of her. That woman's youngest son literally saved my life more times than I can count, and I consider him my brother. Neither of them made my mother seem like a bad person, but thanks to them, I understood from the age of five that my mom was sick and that if I wasn't careful, it was the kind of sick that I could learn. I couldn't catch it, but I could learn it, and I was very careful not to do that. WIthout their influence, ord only knows where I'd be, or worse where my kids would be now.

 

[Missizzy]

"I couldn't catch it but I could learn it..."

I've never read more poignant words, NMKs. Isn't that so true of all forms of abuse? I was fortunate to have a dear aunt who "protected" me from my mother's "protection". Isn't it ironic that she was a survivor of the exact same abuse from the same man and yet her pain was resolved. She made the choice to be a survivor while my mother remained a victim. To this day, my aunt is a joy in my life. She taught me to love my mother just as she is and to have compassion for her pain. She's the one who guided me toward filling my life with children and animals and advocacy. I owe her a lot. My father was a loving and kind man but could not stand up to my mother. He and I had a very close relationship but my mother was so bitter that we had to rise above that. I lost my Daddy two years ago and still grieve. I'm a firm believer, though, that our struggles fine-tune our strengths. I'm sure that's why you and I and so many others are here on WS.



As to the Cerdas, I found another article. I feel so badly for all those who were lied to and duped into giving so much. Their hearts were surely in the right place:

http://www.ktnv.com/story/14674249/local-businesses-disappointed-at-extreme-home-makover-allegations

"Several local businesses feel betrayed after the family they helped, may have misrepresented their need. Hundreds in the community poured their heart, soul, and money into making the Cerda dream home a reality two years ago as part of ABC's hit show 'Extreme Makeover: Home Edition.'

"We were excited to be part of it," says PG, director of marketing for W Furniture. "We thought wow this is great." "We put forth thousands of dollars," says prominent Las Vegas bankruptcy attorney AD.

The Cerdas at the time, claimed their girls suffered from serious immune disorders, even having to wear masks to defend against germs. In March 2009, the Cerdas got their dream home. But new questions are surfacing about just how sick those girls were...."

more at link

 

[marycarney]

<"It takes away from other charitable organizations that are legitimate and families that really do need the help and it gives people a certain cynicism that might lead them to just say, I don't want to be involved," says Deluca.>

Snipped from the above referenced article. All the MPB aside - this is the OTHER tragedy in this whole affair IMHO.

 

[Missizzy]

Yes, it could easily cause generous givers to become jaded and that's awful. I sincerely hope that this debacle is a wake up call for the reality TV shows. There needs to be far more vetting, IMO. I have a hard time believing that the producers ever spoke to the girls' doctors, for instance. If these children truly were as sick as Terri claimed, there would have been a medical consultant on every detail. I didn't see that mentioned in any article. Even the neighbors really should have been listened to. If you are going to pull together such a massive project, it needs to be well deserved.

And I still rail against the opulence apparent in these "show homes". I don't think this is really what Americans want to see right now, given our economy and the recent damaging storms. So many people have absolutely nothing. The Cerdas had a home (which might have needed a serious cleaning) and Chuck has a great job and insurance. Surely, there is a far needier and more deserving family than this. I'm sure the community is as angry as can be and I don't blame them.

I'd sure like to hear what Terri has to say in defense of this mess.

 

[Sin City]

I cannot resist posting....I live in Las Vegas, and this is the first I've heard of this family. Mind you, I don't watch much tv, but as I read through all the information I just kept getting more angry at this mother. IMO, if her daughters were as sick as she believes she would be spending her time getting them treated by the best specialists in the country, and NOT posting on blogs!
IMO let her keep posting, and gaining attention at the moment, and then maybe NV CPS will be forced to get involved...rather than drop the ball.
From what I've read the mother moved back to Las Vegas with the girls. Will family courts be doing something about this? As, an Oregon judge placed the girls back with the family due to the father being a decent parent. Is the father in LV?
And, let me guess.....the children are home schooled? The schools would question the mother too much, CPS would get involved more often, Social workers at the school would question the girls, and possibly the mother believes she's the only one competent enough to teach her special girls.
I'm gonna stop here, before I get a time out from a mod.

 

[Missizzy]

Sin City--That's the question. Where is the "competent" parent--the father? Initial articles stated that the Terri and the girls moved back to Las Vegas and that the father "hoped to be transferred" there. More recent articles state they are all there. Being that the dad works for Homeland Security, I seriously doubt you can receive a transfer that quickly. I'd think that would take some time. My guess is that the mom and children are alone in Nevada and the father is still here in Oregon. I'm hoping that your DHS is checking that out. Oregon DHS has been given the go-ahead to send all records to your state.

Yes, the children are home-schooled. They actually were enrolled in a distance learning program out of another state. One of the components of the make-over of the home shows a special classroom with all sorts of high tech equipment for the children as they can't leave the house for school, you know. They might be exposed to germs and who knows what might happen......

I, too, could get angry at the mom but it wouldn't do any good. She can't stop herself at this point. MBP is not known to be curable. The victims of this perplexing disorder must be removed from the care of the offender permanently. Those children have been through far too much. They deserve a childhood.

 

[Missizzy]

IMO, this situation seems to be contrary to the judge's orders. Chuck Cerda has always seemed to defer to the Terri concerning the girls' medical issues even though he stated that he didn't see the illness (neither did the grandfather, Terri's father). Being that Chuck works as a "police officer" with Homeland Security (consider long hours) and Terri stays home with the girls and homeschools them, it would appear that there really is no "competent" parent on the scene. Add in the fact, we have no confirmation that Chuck is even in the home at all--or even the same state. I believe those girls have returned to the same cycle of maltreatment.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/enter.../05/20/AFBCZu7G_story.html?wprss=rss_national

Doctors: Daughters not as sick as claimed by family given new home on &#8216;Extreme Makeover&#8217;
May 20, 2011

".... A judge eventually decided to return the girls, ages 8 and 10, to their mother, who returned to Nevada in March. The girls&#8217; father is awaiting a transfer back to Nevada...."


And from a story on May 17th....

http://www.ktnv.com/story/14657917/...-home-edition-family-may?clienttype=printable

"....Judge Susie L. Norby didn't buy mom's argument either and claimed Terri Cerda was a danger to the children. Despite that, the girls were allowed to return home. "That's because the judge found that only the mother was a danger to the children and that the father was not a danger," says Miller. And as long as there is one competent parent, the girls can stay....."

more at links

 

[Missizzy]

FWIW, I've always assumed that the "one competent parent" rule was intended to address a situation when one parent is mentally incapacitated, chronically ill, or disabled. In this case, however, one parent has been ruled by a judge to be "a danger to the children". Those are strong words. That puts a huge burden on the other parent, IMO. They are expected to literally protect the children at all times from the dangerous parent, not merely step in to handle parenting chores that an incompetent or incapable parent might be unable to perform. That doesn't seem to bode well for the children or the family dynamics in any way, shape or form.

The ONLY way that I would feel more comfortable about these girls' safety is if the family has an open case with DHS with frequent home visits and an assignment to a specialized caseworker/case manager for any medical needs. If Terri is like the other mothers with MBP I've known, she's aggressive, off-putting, brash and difficult to deal with when anyone steps in her path. Those issues must be dealt with, though, in order to protect those children. It will take a strong, experienced and committed caseworker to handle this case.

I imagine Oregon breathed a sigh of relief when Terri left the state and I'm sure Nevada was none too happy when she showed back up.

 

[marycarney]

To backtrack a bit---- I would rather see these shows put up more basic homes, more the type that Habitat for Humanity erects. They could restore a whole block in Joplin or another tornado area and impact a lot more people. Just my opinion, of course......

 

[In da Middle]

To backtrack a bit---- I would rather see these shows put up more basic homes, more the type that Habitat for Humanity erects. They could restore a whole block in Joplin or another tornado area and impact a lot more people. Just my opinion, of course......

I soooo agree with this. Most of the families are barely eeking by as it is and then create them a gigantic house with higher everything attached with it (taxes, utilities, insurance, etc) and you have created a disaster in the making. I never have understood why they think this is even an answer.

Some of the families do need a bigger house, but not the kind they get with this program. Most just need better, not bigger.

 

[Missizzy]

I would still love to get a look at a city inspector's report of the mold present in this house. We're not talking about the damp northwest. We're talking about Las Vegas. Surely, there can be leaks and flooding but why weren't other homes similarly effected? And why would a title officer sign off on this sale (supposedly the Cerdas bought the home while a child was in the ICU and didn't check it out thoroughly). Why wouldn't insurance cover cleaning up the mold? A family has children who are that medically fragile and yet they don't carefully check out the condition of a house they are buying? There are many private inspectors who specialize in finding mold and that was almost certainly covered in the sale, IMO.

I still find it remarkable that the family headed to the Portland area after being clear that the girls had so much trouble with mold. Portland? I live in Southern Oregon which is much much drier but still mold and moss grows on everything. We have to constantly be on the look out for it.

ITA, about the short-sightedness of the "extreme" houses.

 

[Sin City]

The father is trying to transfer back to the Homeland Security office in LV. Cannot understand how his coworkers are able to trust him, if they actually do.

Plus, now that this is a high profile case in the media I wonder if the children's medical doctors in LV are going to be concerned with possible investigations of over prescribing meds, etc. Wonder if the girls' previous doctors have discharged them from their practices, as they would be too high risk for medical malpractice claims, etc?

 

[Missizzy]

You know, Sin City, I don't recall reading a single comment about the children being seen by doctors in NV. I wonder why? My guess is that Terri wore them all out long ago and moved on, shopping for a diagnosis. If you go back through the thread, I posted a clip from a forum where Terri is claiming that one child has had lung surgery and has been diagnosed with cystic fibrosis. It's sounded critical and then a neighbor reports that the girls are playing in the dirt and ingesting dog poop. You've got to wonder.

There are also these comments from the original article out of Oregon:

http://www.oregonlive.com/clackamascounty/index.ssf/2011/05/clackamas_county_a_case_of_med.html

"....In a letter dated June 6, 2007, a pediatrician with the David Geffen School of Medicine at UCLA, wrote: "Both children as well as their mother have Primary Immune Deficiency Disease...."

and this one:

"....Another physician, the medical director of the laboratory at Arkansas Children's Hospital in Little Rock, reviewed 2010 test results on both children. "M and M Cerda have evidence supporting "Specific Polysaccharide Antibody Deficiency," the director wrote. "Both may be at risk of autoimmune disorders...."


I'm not certain that the children were taken to Arkansas but I have seen posts and comments about UCLA. I have to wonder if she didn't just push and push and push until some doctor caved and gave her what she wanted....instead of reporting her. I hope this is being checked out.

My guess is that blood work and tests were merely sent to Arkansas. They possibly never actually saw the children. Remember, all reports were generated from the mother. I have a chronic illness and my bloodwork is sent periodically to the Mayo Clinic in Minnesota. That's common with difficult to diagnosis illnesses. I also know that lots of non-mainstream bloodwork is not covered by most insurance. That could have been how they ran up such a huge debt.

Let me see if I can run this down a bit.

 

[Missizzy]

There must have been physicians in NV as I can't imagine this "hospital in a home" being under the full control of the mother. There must have been a whole team of home health workers, visiting nurses, and a doctor to prescribe all the treatments and meds. Where are those people now?

Still searching.

 

[Missizzy]

This must be the doctor from Arkansas who reviewed the 2010 test results on the children. There's no way to know just where those tests were done. UCLA possibly? And note, I've seen nothing about the Arkansas physician examining the girls, only reviewing some tests. He was extremely conservative and cautious with his findings. He said, "M and M Cerda have evidence supporting SPADD". "Both may be at risk of autoimmune disorders."

https://primeinc.org/faculty/biography/628/Terry_Harville_MD_PhD

Terry Harville MD PhD
Medical Director, Special Immunology Laboratory
Medical Director, Histocompatibility Laboratory
Medical Director, Immunogenetics and Transplantation Laboratory
Specialist in Pediatric Immunology and Rheumatology
Departments of Pathology and Laboratory Services and Pediatrics
University of Arkansas for Medical Sciences
Little Rock, AR

Very impressive credentials there and I'm so happy to have this man working for sick children. However, I have to wonder how Terri located him and got him to review the test results for the girls. That's typically not an easy task. Someone signed off on the girls getting those highly specialized tests.

Another post by Terri from this last January, when the family would have been in Portland:

http://parent-2-parent.com/forums/archive/index.php/t-3633.html

"....When she crashed yesterday, we did our usual stuff and got her on O2, oxymetry, her nebulizer xopenex etc. But it comes on so fast that it is impossible to get on top of it. By the time the ambulance got her to the hospital, mom looked like a fool. Of course all the meds had kicked in by then and she was ok...."

Who ordered all these meds if the doctors in Portland were not on board? And I wonder what happened to the major lung surgery and the diagnosis of Cystic Fibrosis? Did they just disappear?

http://groups.google.com/group/prima...35762cb21380b4

Feb. 7, 2008
"....I just wanted to pop in and let everyone know how things went in CA for us. We went out for a 2 days trip and came home 14 days and a lung surgery later. M has been diagnosed with Cystic Fibrosis in addition to her PIDD and it is not good...."


SPAD seems to be diagnosed at a young age and is also often linked to dysmorphism and developmental delay. According to several posts by Terri, the girls are in the high gifted range and they certainly don't look dysmorphic to me.


From Wiki concerning PIDD:

"....Most primary immunodeficiencies are genetic disorders; the majority are diagnosed in children under the age of one, although milder forms may not be recognized until adulthood. About 1 in 500 people is born with a primary immunodeficiency....."



Bottom line is that I'm fairly certain these young girls have some sort of unusual immune response to typically harmless bacteria and infection. However, I cannot buy that masks and "a hospital setting" seemed to spring forth when the Make-over people were present. For heaven's sake, the family was sent to Hawaii for 1-2 weeks while the construction was completed. They were cleared to fly? Seriously immune compromised people often can't.

I, too, am anxious to hear from the two doctors that seem to agree that these children are tremendously ill and I'd like to know who is guiding the primary treating physician and pharmacist in Nevada.

As far as we know, Chuck is still in Oregon. Terri, a woman deemed a danger to her children, is alone with them in Nevada. This does not make me comfortable.

 

[marycarney]

Sadly, HIPAA will prevent this doctor verifying anything to a wondering public. I would add that is is VERY EASY these days to abotain/ manufacture hospital stationary and write whatever you wish upon it. Just sayin'........

 

[Missizzy]

Hmmm. I had not considered that. Interesting thought. I'm still floored that so much about these little girls' medical issues was made public. That is not typically the case in Oregon at all. We've not used their full names but every news source in the country has. This is a very unique case all around.

I'm going to be very interested in how Nevada handles this.

 

[marycarney]

I only know this because I have seen it - repeatedly.