OR OR - Kelly James (dead), Brian Hall, 37, Jerry Cooke, 36, Mt. Hood Climbers, Dec 2006

[Taximom]

Yes Taximom, but I know you well by now, and you would never put that exultation in front of the love and responsibility you have for your family.

I just wrote a post about this and lost it. That could mean I was wrong about what I was saying. I still feel that way though.

This extreme sport is a fantastic one. It is also a very selfish one, motivated by savoring every spark of the experience to beat defeat, and let the fear that could devestate you turn into your reason for living when you beat it and succeed in your climb. Living on the edge.

To be married, have 4 children, a life so blessed with a wife who adores you - or maybe she doesn't. I don't know. In that place in life why would you risk dying, when any wrong move on your part might send you to your death on the mountain.

And I am sorry he has died. I never thought he would, that he was somehow invincible to failure on the mountain. Such a great guy, and tried, tested and proofed on so many summits. Yes. But he did fail, tripped or whatever and broke his arm and was then a burden to the other climbers he was with. And this is what he chose in life, to satisfy his needs and feel closest to God when he was on the mountain.

I just hope his wife accepted him for what it was that she loved, and took her place as second and it didn't matter what place she was. Everyone does what they have to or want to do in living their life. I just think how unfair for the children he had.

Their children had no choice in choosing a father who loved the sport so much, but knew in a heartbeat that one wrong move and that could be it for this life on earth. And that happened.

If you want me to delete this I will. I just had to say something. Thank goodness I stopped, as I could have said a few more things.

Scandi, you know me well. I just saw this and I will admit feeling that I think this type of activity, especially when you have a wife and children, is just selfish. I'm really sorry one has perished. I hope for the others that they will be found, even though the news on Fox a few minutes ago indicated a scaled-back search.

I know they say Kelly died doing what he loved, but I seriously doubt that was his last sane thought. My heart is breaking.

This is far different than when Mr. Kim died trying to save his family, IMO.

I know there are others here that believe otherwise, and that's o.k. We all have our own opinions. I hope mine is respected as well.

 

[RoughlyCollie]

I've been thinking about this. The people I know who do dangerous things like skydiving and scuba diving have discussed the risks and rewards with their families, and their families support their endeavors. This sure enough doesn't make it much easier on the families when they die -- it's a small consolation, at best, to those left behind and deprived of the companionship of their loved ones. Dead is dead, no matter how one gets there.

We have to figure that these folks have made sure the hardship to their families is reduced, through life insurance and other avenues, should they die while doing one of these activities.

I also think that people who do these types of activities are different than the run of the mill person in some way. It may be that there is a special juxtaposition of personality traits, abilities, environment, intelligence, and the wherewithal to do these activities.

I am not one of these people, though in my imagination, I would like to be.

I find vicarious dangerous experiences to be quite enough for me. If I had the whatever-it-takes to enjoy them, I'd sure do it, figuring quality of life outranks quantity. If I had kids, though, I'd think long and hard about how whether to continue.

As for serving in the military, I know that people join up for different reasons. Putting one's country ahead of oneself and one's family is laudable, IMO, and different than participating in extreme sports.

So no one with a family should ever put themselves in a dangerous situation - be it climbing, skydiving, or serving in the military?

 

[RoughlyCollie]

I had high hopes, too. I am wondering when cynicism (or perhaps realistic thinking) is going to kick in for me. This is the second time lately that I have been positive the outcome would be a good one, and it has not been. I guess I identify too closely with the families of these men. Usually I do not get caught up emotionally in news stories. Sometimes I think the Elizabeth Smart case sent me over the edge into too much optimism when a story does catch at my heart.

I really had such high hopes that at least 1 of these men might make it. I guess it's not possible now.

 

[izzyB]

as you can imagine, a lot of local talk radio has been devoted to whether or not these men were selfish by pursuing their passion for a dangerous sport. i believe that we cannot alter the time and place of our death. that that is God's to decide. i also believe we should not be reckless with the life God has given us.

 

[Karole28]

I had high hopes too Karole.......Its been a very sad story.......

There is just something so lonely about the thought that these men (like James Kim) just laid down and died in the snow.

Not that we know yet, but..that's what I see.

I was inconsolable about Mr. Kim. And, I think that's why. It's just a lonely way to go.

 

[Karole28]

I had high hopes, too. I am wondering when cynicism (or perhaps realistic thinking) is going to kick in for me. This is the second time lately that I have been positive the outcome would be a good one, and it has not been. I guess I identify too closely with the families of these men. Usually I do not get caught up emotionally in news stories. Sometimes I think the Elizabeth Smart case sent me over the edge into too much optimism when a story does catch at my heart.

I'm the same way. This, James Kim, and Jon Benet. Those are the cases that drive me crazy and make me the saddest.

 

[Sassygerl]

If extreme sports are something someone enjoys I say go for it! We're all here only time around and I believe it's insane to hold back and not do the things you truly enjoy. After all, Kelly met his wife in the late 90's and she knew and loved him for who he was and accepted his love for climbing. Is it dangerous....YES! So many things are though! My hubby is a cyclist and while the level of danger is far less, cyclist get hit often and are killed. Had there not been an injury and they were all able to get off that mountain those men would be telling awesome stories with their incredible pictures. Sadly, it turned out differently than we all had hoped. I'm sure the adrenaline rush of climbing mountains is an incredible high! My thoughts and prayers are with the families. JMHO

 

[Lurker Steve]

I've been thinking about this. The people I know who do dangerous things like skydiving and scuba diving have discussed the risks and rewards with their families, and their families support their endeavors. This sure enough doesn't make it much easier on the families when they die -- it's a small consolation, at best, to those left behind and deprived of the companionship of their loved ones. Dead is dead, no matter how one gets there.

Well, if you don't want to risk having your wife/husband die doing something dangerous, than I would advise not marrying someone that does something dangerous.

 

[scandi]

Somewhere in the previous 4-5 pages of posts I linked a climbing accident history of Mt. Hood for the last 25 years, or so. Yes, bodies of climbers are often not found, or recovered. There's always a chance that they might be found in the spring when some of the snow melts away, but if they are at the bottom of a deep crevasse somewhere, they might never be found.

Hi Buzz, Reading this morning I learned that there are several climbers who have died climbing Mt Everest, and from the air many of their bodies can be seen. I think their families have elected to have that be their firnal resting place since they loved the mountain so much.

Marty Hoey, a climber from Seattle I think, was seen as she fell to her death on Mt Everest. One man with terminal cancer climbed Mt Hood and died there. So it is not so much a sport I think as great passion with these prople. We have to appreciate that, realizing everyone has their own passions in life.


I'm wondering about something. The Sheriff has said that from that temporary cave made by the 2 climbers near their anchor of webbing, he thinks they fell 2,500' to their deaths. Since they both have disappeared they must have been roped together, right? I'm wondering if they fell from that spot with the winds as they were on Sat, where would they most likely have ended up? Has anything been said about that?

Also, I don't know if everyone has seen the real anchor over at CC. It is not the rope Y we all thought it was, but is in the same location evidently. A poster there was on the climb and photographed it, and asked that it not be used anywhere without his permission so I didn't bring it over. It is very interesting. You can see one spot on it where the webbing has stretched out. Like where someone had a hold of it or where their body was suspended from it.

Also, on that ledge by the cave in the Y photo, do you see the disturbance in the snow out close to the front of the edge, close by where you see the snow blowing down over the edge of that platform? I'm wondering if that is what gives the Sheriff the idea that they fell. Could this be their last place they were before the fall? I know no one knows, but am wondering about anyone's thoughts on it.
Scandi

 

[scandi]

There is just something so lonely about the thought that these men (like James Kim) just laid down and died in the snow.

Not that we know yet, but..that's what I see.

I was inconsolable about Mr. Kim. And, I think that's why. It's just a lonely way to go.

Hi Karole, Buzz posted a link telling how they think a bear followed Mr Kim, and probably was why he left the road when he did. It also said they think the bear pushed Mr Kim into that water where he died. Evidently everywhere Mr Kim's foorprints were found, there were also bear tracks aside his.

Scandi

 

[Love_Mama]

Go here. Sign up for Dallas news.......

There is a tour of Kelly James house in Dallas. What a talented man he was.......

http://www.dallasnews.com/ then sign up and click on the story entitled.........."For better, worse, or remodeling". You'll be amazed!
What a gorgeous modern home. I think this will show you the kind of man Kelly was.

SCANDI....................check this out if you haven't already.

http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/features/housegarden2/072806ccwchgjameshouse.2e453b.html

xxxxxxxxxxxxooooo
mama :blowkiss: :blowkiss:

 

[Floh]

There is just something so lonely about the thought that these men (like James Kim) just laid down and died in the snow.

Not that we know yet, but..that's what I see.

I was inconsolable about Mr. Kim. And, I think that's why. It's just a lonely way to go.

I believe i will always think of the courage of James Kim. What a beautiful and strong man.

the three men for this thread, they are also, and not least, important in the extreme. as are, and almost most for, their families.

i do believe i must stay away from such threads on the future as my heart is truly broken and i'm not even a friend or family member.

my love goes to all the lost out there in the wide yonder.

 

[Karole28]

Hi Karole, Buzz posted a link telling how they think a bear followed Mr Kim, and probably was why he left the road when he did. It also said they think the bear pushed Mr Kim into that water where he died. Evidently everywhere Mr Kim's foorprints were found, there were also bear tracks aside his.

Scandi

that is just SOO sad. I read every word you guys posted here on that. I didn't thank you, but I want to now (all of you) for keeping everyone so up to date.

 

[scandi]

Go here. Sign up for Dallas news.......

There is a tour of Kelly James house in Dallas. What a talented man he was.......

http://www.dallasnews.com/ then sign up and click on the story entitled.........."For better, worse, or remodeling". You'll be amazed!
What a gorgeous modern home. I think this will show you the kind of man Kelly was.

SCANDI....................check this out if you haven't already.

http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/features/housegarden2/072806ccwchgjameshouse.2e453b.html

xxxxxxxxxxxxooooo
mama :blowkiss: :blowkiss:

Hi Mama, I really want to see it, but it won't show up on my screen. I sit and wait forever and then finally give up. I bet it has open beamed ceilings with a hig pitched roof going up to give the feeling of a mountain.

:blowkiss: Scandi

 

[Floh]

Go here. Sign up for Dallas news.......

There is a tour of Kelly James house in Dallas. What a talented man he was.......

http://www.dallasnews.com/ then sign up and click on the story entitled.........."For better, worse, or remodeling". You'll be amazed!
What a gorgeous modern home. I think this will show you the kind of man Kelly was.

SCANDI....................check this out if you haven't already.

http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/features/housegarden2/072806ccwchgjameshouse.2e453b.html

xxxxxxxxxxxxooooo
mama :blowkiss: :blowkiss:

I saw it. they had/have a beautiful home. i hope the family can continue to enjoy it in Kelly's absence.

it's sooo rotten he won't grow old in it with his beautiful wife.

 

[Sassygerl]

Go here. Sign up for Dallas news.......

There is a tour of Kelly James house in Dallas. What a talented man he was.......

http://www.dallasnews.com/ then sign up and click on the story entitled.........."For better, worse, or remodeling". You'll be amazed!
What a gorgeous modern home. I think this will show you the kind of man Kelly was.

SCANDI....................check this out if you haven't already.

http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/features/housegarden2/072806ccwchgjameshouse.2e453b.html

xxxxxxxxxxxxooooo
mama :blowkiss: :blowkiss:

If you don't want to sign up use [email protected] password 123456

I got this from bugmenot.com

What a beautiful home!

 

[scandi]

Floh, I so agree with you, and beautifully stated BTW.

It is not our place to judge, saying Mr Kim's death came during his selfless act of heroism and a mountain climbers death could be invariably expected at some point and is therefore selfish.

So I think your words explain that much better than I can. And yet my heart pains for Mr Kim's plight, especially now knowing that had there not been some negligence in the LE agency, he might still be with us.

Scandi

 

[emmcee]

. . . .
Also, I don't know if everyone has seen the real anchor over at CC. It is not the rope Y we all thought it was, but is in the same location evidently. A poster there was on the climb and photographed it, and asked that it not be used anywhere without his permission so I didn't bring it over. It is very interesting. You can see one spot on it where the webbing has stretched out. Like where someone had a hold of it or where their body was suspended from it.

Also, on that ledge by the cave in the Y photo, do you see the disturbance in the snow out close to the front of the edge, close by where you see the snow blowing down over the edge of that platform? I'm wondering if that is what gives the Sheriff the idea that they fell. Could this be their last place they were before the fall? I know no one knows, but am wondering about anyone's thoughts on it.

Can you please point me in the direction of these photos? There is so much coverage of this story but I haven't seen these photos yet. THANKS in advance.

 

[RoughlyCollie]

Well, if you don't want to risk having your wife/husband die doing something dangerous, than I would advise not marrying someone that does something dangerous.

Yeah. Luckily, I married Mr. Safety. Birds of a feather, you know. Although I do have a slight wild side, I've managed to rein it in for the sake of everyone's sanity. It was a sad day when I had to give up riding a motorcycle so I'd be a good example for my kids. A friend of mine who is a doctor was with me in a state which has no helmet law. I said, up here, I guess you'd be a brain surgeon, thinking of brain injuries. He said, nope, I'd be a mortician.

 

[scandi]

Hi Eemcee, Here is a link, and just scroll down past the first set of photos to iain's post:

http://www.cascadeclimbers.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/ubb/showflat/Number/620496/page/1/nt/11/fpart/3

BTW, that first photo showing the Y of rope is correct in this vertical position, as the Sheriff said in a news conf. that this is the way it is on the mountain. That Y supported or anchored a fire watch shack that was there for years on that ledge and is now gone. But I think the mesh anchor is very close to it. Just think, these forest rangers had to climb up to the shack to watch for fires! Of course in the summer there isn't as much snow there.

Scandi