OR OR - Kelly James (dead), Brian Hall, 37, Jerry Cooke, 36, Mt. Hood Climbers, Dec 2006

  • #981
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  • #983
  • #984
Hey RoughlyCollie, Thank you for posting the articles on Brian Hall & Kelly James. It confirms what we already thought... they were outstanding human beings. Really enjoyed reading them. :blowkiss: May they all RIP
 
  • #985
Lurker Steve said:
Oh, get off your high horse.

Or, to phrase it in a more "seasonal" way, judge not lest ye be judged.

Excuse me?

I have a right to my opinion as much as you do.

I think they were very selfish. They are closer to God, but their families now have to live without them, and for no good reason other than they were up there getting their "high." I feel part of growing up is to know when to take risks and when to not. Sometimes you have to put your desires on the back shelf for the greater good...which would be...to be alive and raise your children. These men were foolish, and they paid dearly for going up on that mountain in the dead of winter...and what did I hear last night...they didn't have the proper provisions to be spending the night, should something come up.

You can agree or disagree with me, but your comment is very rude. I must have hit a touchy spot with you. lol I can almost picture you stomping your foot and have a fit. lol You have your opinion...I have mine. They aren't the same. Deal with it.
 
  • #986
JDB said:
SO is skiing down a hill. So is swimming in the ocean. So is water sking. But people do it all the time.WHy because they love to. It is selfish for people to do what they want to do? I do not think so. Like I said before the familes did not oppose them doing it. They also knew the risk.

Climbing up that mountain, in the dead of winter, without the proper equipment, is not wise. And they died.

I'm not sure why you'd compare doing what they did to skiiing or swiming in the ocean. But those that think this behavior is okay seem to come up with any excuse to justify it. I don't agree with you, but you're certainly entitled to your opinion as much as I am.

Yes, I personally feel it was extremely selfish for these guys to have done what they did. It's as simple as that.

I have children and the last thing I'd do is something as risky as that. I love my kids too much. Yes, I know things can happen, and they do, but why put yourself in a risky situation when you don't need to? Just because they got their high from this.

I think these men were fools, and now their children are going to grow up without a father. They knew the risk, yet were still willing to do this for their own personal pleasure. I find that to be very selfish and sad.

If I was burying my husband because of something like this, I would be so very unhappy. It didn't have to happen. And too bad they weren't prepared to spend the night. Maybe that would have saved their lives. People do stuipd things all the time...sometimes they live to talk about it, sometimes they don't. Some are willing to take that risk, others are not. I fall into the latter catagory...as does my husband.

It's obvious that we don't agree on this issue.
 
  • #987
Scandi was wondering about the cost for a helicopter; I found this:

Kleinbaum did say that Black Hawk helicopters are estimated to cost $2,800 an hour to operate. At least two Black Hawks and a Nevada Air National Guard C-130 transport have been repeatedly used in the search.

Maj. James Wilson, spokesman for the Air Force Reserve speaking on behalf of the military effort, said the costs for the joint military have not been calculated.
 
  • #988
Good Morning,


This morning is the first time I realized they went up the mtn on Thursday morning. All I had heard was on Friday night they had to build a snow cave as the storm had come in a day early and it was such a doozy with white out and 100mph winds. Where did they spend Thursday night?

They had the very finest of equipment, but only what was a necessity, and their coats were not insulated. Jerry Cooke had written before on a forum that if you bring a bivy saq then your gonna have to bivy, and two of their cell phones did not have GPS capabilities.

Smart, successful and experienced in mountaineering, they all three had that philosophy about climbing that I have been reading over at Cascade Climbing for the last week and a half. The mountain macho one, where their climb was to test their abilities without the assistance of the high tech tools they could have included. And they were not prepared for an extra couple of days on the mtn as they evidently thought their skills would get them back to their car within the time frame they planned.

For Brian and Jerry I don't think it mattered, as I think they were wisked off a small plateau by a high wind on Saturday and tied together, both fell to a swift death sliding down the Left Gully.

For Kelly it might have made all the difference in his surviving. The rescuers found no stove in his cave, his food was gone and he was not insulated against the cold. He laid on his pack over a thin mat, and his feet were on the cold snow, only his shoes protecting his feet from the cold.

'The attitude of climbers is what needs to change IMHO. They as a whole do not want legal retrictions placed on their sport as it will take away from their sense of accomplishment. And to buy the finest ice axes and tools but not prepare for that possible 2 or 3 days if the weather turns, evidently tests the human body more that it is capable of enduring.
 
  • #989
  • #990
tuitsweet said:
This article for the Eugene register Guard relays another climber's perspective on Mt.Hood climbing...he too was caught 'off-guard' but did survive the ordeal.
Interesting read.

http://www.registerguard.com/news/2006/12/21/a1.climber.1221.p1.php?section=cityregion

From your link:

"One criticism I have of these guys is, did they know this mountain?" he said. While the three climbers were all veterans, the north-side ascent is one that should only be attempted in spring when the snow is stable, Flanagan said. "This is not the time of year to do the north face," he said.

He wondered if they understood the regularity with which storms roll in off the Pacific. You rarely get a window of good weather that lasts more than a few days, he said. Did they have enough gear to support them if they had to hunker down for several days?

He and Moon had a sleeping pad, a down sleeping bag, a cook stove, extra clothing, tea, candy bars and snacks that lasted them several days. The fuel in the stove permitted them to heat water for their first three days. A couple of small candles and matches gave them light in the snow cave, which buoyed their spirits, he said.

The questions he raises don't imply disrespect, Flanagan said.

"I really respect them," he said. "That doesn't mean you can't pick apart what they did." One of the ways we learn is through the experiences of others.
 
  • #991
scandi said:
Good Morning,


This morning is the first time I realized they went up the mtn on Thursday morning. All I had heard was on Friday night they had to build a snow cave as the storm had come in a day early and it was such a doozy with white out and 100mph winds. Where did they spend Thursday night?
They spent Thursday night in the Tilly Jane warming hut where they decided to spend the night instead of starting the ascent. That's where they left the message and $20. DonnV from CC wrote about this on the first page.
 
  • #992
scandi said:
Good Morning,


This morning is the first time I realized they went up the mtn on Thursday morning. All I had heard was on Friday night they had to build a snow cave as the storm had come in a day early and it was such a doozy with white out and 100mph winds. Where did they spend Thursday night?

SNIP

Scandi, Thursday night the climbers spent the night at the Tilly Jane warming hut/shelter/cabin at 7,000'; they hadn't planned on spending the night there, but were enticed into spending the night, by the warm fire they built. They had left their vehicle at the Tilly Jane Trailhead at 3900' on Wednesday.

Their decision to spend much of Thursday, and all of Thursday night, at the warming hut, was, in hindsight, a fatal decision. Had they pushed on towards the summit, chances are that they wouldn't have been caught in the storm that ended up claiming their lives.
 
  • #993
luvbeaches said:
Yes, I personally feel it was extremely selfish for these guys to have done what they did. It's as simple as that.

I think these men were fools, and now their children are going to grow up without a father. They knew the risk, yet were still willing to do this for their own personal pleasure. I find that to be very selfish and sad.
Kelly James has been climbing for 25 years. He loved it, it was his passion. His children are grown. The climb up Hood was in preparation for a future climb up Mt. Everest. If you get hurt climbing Mt. Everest, you will die because there is no way to be rescued. Helicopters can't fly at that altitude because the air is too thin and the choppers can't get lift. Other climbers can't bring you down due to the terrain - it is hard enough to get yourself down.

The three climbers did have the proper equipment, just not a lot of it since they only planned on spending 1 night on the mountain. The weather was supposed to be good. There was an accident, and we probably will never know for sure what happened.

Rather than sitting home day after day wishing they could do what they loved, they pursued their dreams and lived life to the fullest. Sure, they knew the risks, but most things in life aren't without risk.

As a teenager I lived for surfing. We cut school to surf when the waves were exceptional. My parents were always worried because they felt it wasn't safe, but didn't try too hard to stop me as it wouldn't have done any good anyway. For graduation they gave me a trip to Hawaii and a new surfboard. One of my close friends was killed surfing - I was surfing with him that day. It was a freak accident and we were all devastated. Heartbroken.


Was it foolish and selfish of us to want to surf? No. Not at all. But, accidents happen.
 
  • #994
Thanks Ca-Sun,

That's what I thought, so this timeline posted in the Summitpost is incorrect.
Surprising, as this online paper includes so much from the CascadeClimbers forum.

The photos in the article are taken by one of their posters, and with several of their posters having been SAR men in this search, so I am surprised. Two posters over there were the ones that discovered Kelly's body. And the true photo of the anchor they made was taken by one of these men.That forum goes back to 2000 and is a very interesting read all the way through.

Scandi
 
  • #995
Buzzm1 said:
Scandi, Thursday night the climbers spent the night at the Tilly Jane warming hut/shelter/cabin at 7,000'; they hadn't planned on spending the night there, but were enticed into spending the night, by the warm fire they built. They had left their vehicle at the Tilly Jane Trailhead at 3900' on Wednesday.

Their decision to spend much of Thursday, and all of Thursday night, at the warming hut, was, in hindsight, a fatal decision. Had they pushed on towards the summit, chances are that they wouldn't have been caught in the storm that ended up claiming their lives.

Wednesday, Dec. 6: Three climbers leave their car at the Tilly Jane trailhead, at 3900', near the Cooper Spur ski area, with plans to climb Mount Hood. Kelly James, 48, and Brian Hall, 37, both of Dallas, Texas; and Jerry "Nikko" Cooke, 36, of Brooklyn, N.Y., all have extensive experience climbing, including Mount Rainier and Denali. They intend to spend at least two nights on the mountain and meet friends at Timberline Lodge.

Thursday, Dec. 7: Climbers spend much of Thursday, and all of Thursday night in the Tilly Jane warming hut located at 7,000'.

Friday, Dec. 8: The climbers take the North Face route near Cooper Spur up Mount Hood.
 
  • #996
Thanks Buzz, I will be anxious to read the final report which they will post at CC. Do you think that will take until next Spring, or until they locate their bodies?

Off to work, but will check in from time to time. Scandi
 
  • #997
  • #998
scandi said:
Thanks Buzz, I will be anxious to read the final report which they will post at CC. Do you think that will take until next Spring, or until they locate their bodies?

Off to work, but will check in from time to time. Scandi
I am hoping that any final report will include a summary of the weather at Mt. Hood, for Thursday, Dec. 7th, and Friday, Dec. 8th. They only climbed from 3900' to 7000' on Thursday, Dec. 7th, before stopping at the Tilly Jane warming hut, and then they ended up spending Thursday night there.
 
  • #999
Buzzm1 said:
I am hoping that any final report will include a summary of the weather at Mt. Hood, for Thursday, Dec. 7th, and Friday, Dec. 8th. They only climbed from 3900' to 7000' on Thursday, Dec. 7th, before stopping at the Tilly Jane warming hut, and then they ended up spending Thursday night there.
Buzz, this isn't quite the information you are looking for, but I found it interesting. It was posted on CC.
"The last weather report I'd seen on Wednesday eve made it look like Thursday was the last decent day for some time." They didn't begin the ascent until Friday.
 
  • #1,000
Thanks Ca-Sun, Reading the last SAR post at CC, there is info that can not be made public at this time. Had they climbed Hood before it would have helped, Hood itself can turn very bad quickly aside from the fact climbing is a very dangerous sport and he questions why they decided to keep climbing when they had to know the ultimate dangers they faced.

He made these comments based on everything they found. I think it is a pretty good assesment of the situation. Scandi
 

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