OR - Kyron Horman, 7 yo Second grader, Portland, 4 June 2010 - Part #14

[oceanblueeyes]

Especially women.

I am coming in late so please forgive me but I found this interesting.

I just did a google search on "murdered bodies in waterways" and I went through 5 pages and didn't see one where a women was the murderer.

I do know that some mothers who murdered their children drowned their children in a bathtub.

Or occasionally if her male partner murdered the child the mother would assist the perpetrator in disposing of the child's body in a river.

I would think water disposal no matter the gender would be relatively small percent compared to buried or discarded some place or found in the home of the perpetrator.

IMO

 

[PDXMom]

Are they still looking into him for a connection to Kyron.A homeless guy would hang around AA type facilities,churches,ect....

It seems unlikely that he would have the means to get to the school (being homeless and stalking on foot along the highway) and then out to the island to dispose of evidence. Plus, I doubt, having seen his mugshot, that he'd be able to blend in very well at the school event. JMHO. But it's worth it to check, of course.

 

[SoCalSleuth]

Yes, they can subpeona the cell carrier to turn over the pings like they did in the Caylee case. If I had to place a swift bet they are going off pings. It's a very popular tool in investigations these days. I have not seen or heard any confirmation in this case of course, it's just my opinion in general.

Normally, in a criminal case, they execute a search warrant for the cell phone records. A subpoena is usually used to obtain those records in a civil matter.

 

[Kimster]

"Cameron stayed late at Lewis & Clark Elementary School Tuesday because he's a crossing guard. He was walking the four blocks home alone when he noticed a portly man following him. Cameron playfully tapped a stop sign as he walked beneath it, and the man did, too. When Cameron quickened his pace, the man did, too.

Then Cameron told his mom, the man -- whom police later identified as 36-year-old Tony Phipps -- grabbed his backpack from behind. Cameron told police he turned around, slapped away the man's hands and was able to break free. Cameron ran home."

Cameron was walking home from his school! http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2010/06/mother_of_st_helens_boy_who_fo.html

 

[pdx]

I FINALLY found it. Google WAS my friend.
<snip>
Sauvie Island is ON THE WAY to St. Helen's where they picked up this guy for an attempted abduction. Is this a clue???

It certainly looks weird.. except..
Residents/police in St Helens know Phipps, and say he lives in a tent outside of town/on the edge of town. It's too far for him to make it on foot.
It feels a lot more like a coincidence than anything else. I mean, it would be great and all, if they had The Guy, but his past history shows he plays for a different team (his offenses).

I think it's an unfortunate coincidence, being so close.
Unless you want a tin foil hat theory? Phipps was paid to go grab another little boy kid for Kyron's perp. And failed. (nope, don't like it all myself)

 

[human]

here is info on cell phone pings from Yahoo answers. It is 4 years old, however, so I am sure that technology has gotten even more sophisticated

Big Brother is ALWAYS watching

Pinging a cell phone is finding out what cell tower their phone is in. This can be used to locate a person that you know has the cell phone. This is used by law enforcement on a regular basis.
Usually the information is provided by the cellular provider and you have to have an account with them. In 911 systems the location is broadcast with the call.
If a bad guy is carrying a cell phone the phone is constantly sending signals to the closest cell tower, even if the phone isn't in use. The location of the cell tower will tell you that the person is within a certain range. When the person moves they can be tracked by which cell towers the signal is bouncing to.
Now cell phones come with GPS so your exact location can be traced. Even when your phone is turned off!! Also, the phones can be used as a listening device. It can be activated via a cell phone tower and law enforcement can listen to everything said within range of the cell phone. The phone doesn't even have to be turned on. It's like you are carrying around a microphone. Many ways of listening to people are being developed and put to use right under our noses. ONstar has been used to listen in on criminals by law enforcement. the microphone for ONSTAR in your car can be activated remotely so your conversation in the car can be listened to. If you want to remain anonymous with a cell phone use a prepaid phone and don't send in your information for a mail in rebate. Because the phone will then be registered to your name. If nobody knows your phone number or ESN number then they can't trace your phone by cell towers.
And definitely not by GPS. As for the ONSTAR, well, most people in the know disconnect it.
Cable boxes are also being used to listen in on people in their homes. The signal is sent over the same coax cable to the head-end where a server records you conversations if you have been targeted.
But, back to Pinging a phone, it's finding out what cell tower grid the phone is in so a person can be located. The ESN or phone number of the cell phone needs to be known. The cell phone provider can provide this information but you have to be allowed to have it. I think bail bondsmen are. YOu need to call a cell phone provider and ask them.

* 4 years ago

 

[hotmomma35]

Hi everyone, Iam a member of websleuth, but I rarely speak in forums. I do a whole lot of listening and thinking though.. Anyway, I live in a very small town in Louisiana and its right on the outskirts of a city. I pass by a trailor house about 5 blocks from my house to get to the city and there is a little boy that lives there and he looks like Kyron. I have passed by there a few times in the last few days and I have seen him outside twice.He looks 7 and he has the same little glasses and hair cut and color. The first time I seen him , I automatically thought KYRON.. He was roller skating across from his house at a little park and he was alone. I saw him go back across to the trailor as I was driving down the road. The next time I passed and he was coming out just as I went by. I just kept going cause I didn't wanna creep the boy out. He had bag of trash and went to put it in the trash can by the road. when I got to end of road, I pulled in a driveway and turned around. he was watching me and ran in the house. I was gonna try to take a pictrure of him, but I didn't wanna scare him. I did see a women come out the front door one time when I was passing, but she just picked up a rug and went back in. couldn't see her face, she had short curly dark hair. He seems to be the only child there . I don't really know how to go about finding out who they are with out freaking the people out. what would you guys suggest.

 

[Kimster]

I'm starting to wonder if they called off the search and told the parents that their kids are safe because they think they have the perp in custody.

Yes, we are allowed to sleuth this guy: http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=91068&highlight=locals+posting

 

[SoCalSleuth]

This may be a dumb question, but do they need to subpeona pings from a SPECIFIC cell phone during a period? Or can they ask for all pings from a particular tower in a particular time range?

No such thing as a dumb question! They have to ask for cell phone records for a specific cell phone--otherwise they would be violating the privacy rights of everyone else whose phone pinged at the tower.

 

[Kimster]

It certainly looks weird.. except..
Residents/police in St Helens know Phipps, and say he lives in a tent outside of town/on the edge of town. It's too far for him to make it on foot.
It feels a lot more like a coincidence than anything else. I mean, it would be great and all, if they had The Guy, but his past history shows he plays for a different team (his offenses).

I think it's an unfortunate coincidence, being so close.
Unless you want a tin foil hat theory? Phipps was paid to go grab another little boy kid for Kyron's perp. And failed. (nope, don't like it all myself)

Yeah, the only part is the lack of transportation. But how much do they know about this guy? Was he able to borrow a car from a family member?

 

[cluciano63]

Speaking of cell phones, I read an article today that says that missing persons cases present special problems to LE; they can't ask for search warrants if not declared a crime, which is why they sometimes don't pull cell records on a missing adult if they have no reason to believe foul play has occurred. So maybe LE in this case decided to call it a criminal investigation in order to be able to obtain search warrants, and really did this a few days ago, instead of just yesterday, and have since obtained info from someone's phone that placed them out here by this river.

 

[human]

I have posted the info a couple of times on here. LE can get cell phone ping info easily in the case of a kidnapping. I am too lazy to look it up again.

It's because of a girl that was kidnapped in Kansas. If anyone else wants to look, go ahead. Otherwise, you will have to take my word for it.

 

[human]

Hi everyone, Iam a member of websleuth, but I rarely speak in forums. I do a whole lot of listening and thinking though.. Anyway, I live in a very small town in Louisiana and its right on the outskirts of a city. I pass by a trailor house about 5 blocks from my house to get to the city and there is a little boy that lives there and he looks like Kyron. I have passed by there a few times in the last few days and I have seen him outside twice.He looks 7 and he has the same little glasses and hair cut and color. The first time I seen him , I automatically thought KYRON.. He was roller skating across from his house at a little park and he was alone. I saw him go back across to the trailor as I was driving down the road. The next time I passed and he was coming out just as I went by. I just kept going cause I didn't wanna creep the boy out. He had bag of trash and went to put it in the trash can by the road. when I got to end of road, I pulled in a driveway and turned around. he was watching me and ran in the house. I was gonna try to take a pictrure of him, but I didn't wanna scare him. I did see a women come out the front door one time when I was passing, but she just picked up a rug and went back in. couldn't see her face, she had short curly dark hair. He seems to be the only child there . I don't really know how to go about finding out who they are with out freaking the people out. what would you guys suggest.

Call LE. They can find out easily.

 

[Claudette]

The "ping" being talked about is the "ping" your phone sends out to nearby towers to stay properly connected to the network. The phone does need to be on to send pings.

I'm curious about the origin of all this cell phone ping talk - are we assuming that the police are following pings, or have the LE actually said they are using cell phone pings to investigate? Also, it was my understanding that subpoenas need to be issued for those records if they are not given voluntarily.

Yes, the ping talk is only a "hypothesis" if you will. Nothing has been said by anyone involved in the case, we are only guessing.

And you are right about the subpoena for the ping info as well, however someone can feel free to correct me if I'm wrong. I vaguely recall this being discussed on Morgan Harrington's website.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

Okay, why would LE not want anyone to know who saw Kyron at 9:00? Theories? Protecting someone? From whom?

Example: If it's a youngster and they say I saw Kyron with Coach Billybob at 9:00. So they question Coach Billybob and Billybob says oh no I was at xyz doing abc. BUT, Billybob has no alibi. Wouldn't they take Billybob and arrest him based on just the eye witness, or would they have to find some sort of other evidence first? And maybe they want to do that to protect the child? I don't know, I'm just thinking out loud and trying to figure out why they wouldn't say who saw him at 9:00? Theories?

I think it is standard procedure. The last eye witness to see Kyron will possibly be one of the key witnesses in the criminal case if they find the person who did this and if it doesn't turnout that the last to see him becomes the suspect.

LE is never going to reveal who they are for their own safety and privacy. They certainly don't need to reveal who this person is and have the media beating down their door.

No they wouldn't be able to arrest him just because he couldn't verify his alibi. They have to have probable cause to make an arrest and that means they have to have something pointing to him that he is involved in Kyron's disappearance.

IMO

 

[cluciano63]

Yeah, the only part is the lack of transportation. But how much do they know about this guy? Was he able to borrow a car from a family member?

I know he is an RSO, but I wonder in this case, if he wasn't really making a grab for the backpack...he gave up so easily and witnesses say he did not try to run away, IIRC...

 

[JBean]

Okay, why would LE not want anyone to know who saw Kyron at 9:00? Theories? Protecting someone? From whom?

Example: If it's a youngster and they say I saw Kyron with Coach Billybob at 9:00. So they question Coach Billybob and Billybob says oh no I was at xyz doing abc. BUT, Billybob has no alibi. Wouldn't they take Billybob and arrest him based on just the eye witness, or would they have to find some sort of other evidence first? And maybe they want to do that to protect the child? I don't know, I'm just thinking out loud and trying to figure out why they wouldn't say who saw him at 9:00? Theories?

Because people wil mercilessly accuse the last person to have seen a missing person. Ask Roy kronk what happens when you try to help an investigation.
IMO, they are trying to save a person some misery.

 

[sofia76]

It seems unlikely that he would have the means to get to the school (being homeless and stalking on foot along the highway) and then out to the island to dispose of evidence. Plus, I doubt, having seen his mugshot, that he'd be able to blend in very well at the school event. JMHO. But it's worth it to check, of course.

Not to mention, he doesn't seem too bright (the way he tried to grab this other kid and got caught), and he's been in custody for several days with no word from LE about him being a POI ....

 

[TXHOPE]

I am coming in late so please forgive me but I found this interesting.

I just did a google search on "murdered bodies in waterways" and I went through 5 pages and didn't see one where a women was the murderer.

I do know that some mothers who murdered their children drowned their children in a bathtub.

Or occasionally if her male partner murdered the child the mother would assist the perpetrator in disposing of the child's body in a river.

I would think water disposal no matter the gender would be relatively small percent compared to buried or discarded some place or found in the home of the perpetrator.

IMO

Melissa Huckaby who murderered Sandra Cantu desposed of her body in water. I keep thinking of that case because she was close to Kyron's age. Little Sandra trusted a parent of friend .

 

[Salem]

Please continue here: [ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?p=5292051#post5292051"]OR OR - Kyron Horman, 7 yo Second grader, Portland, 4 June 2010 - Part #15 - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community[/ame]

Thanks,

Salem