OR - Kyron Horman, 7 yo Second grader, Portland, 4 June 2010 - Part #15

[gibby207]

Your not talking to yourself. I'm listening to you LOL.

You, me and Laughing! We should play cards or watch Shirley Valentine! lol

 

[raeann]

Have they had cadaver dogs in the school yet? I hate to say it but the way he just disappears makes me concerned that he was investigating or hiding somewhere and his body just hasn't been found yet.

The case that happened in the lab at the university, how long was it before they found her body hidden in the wall? This case reminds me of that one, the victim goes into the building and there is not a shred of evidence that they left the building.

This was actually my theory at first, but after 11 days, to say it gently, it would be obvious by now that a body was there in the building. Barring that it would be in a refrigerator or freezer, and while that is possible, I am sure they would have been checked and rechecked.
That being said, if someone had wanted to hide him there until the students and most staff had left the building, it could have been possible. There are storage sheds in back, and in the sky view pictures, there were some type of rolling carts similar to sports equipment carts parked out by that storage shed.

jmoo

 

[SoCalSleuth]

I've thought about that. If it really happened that way I really think a phone call from the school would have stopped it.

Maybe would have only started things rolling earlier.

 

[Wise Old Owl]

This article is from tonight:

Officials defend search efforts, dive teams search Sauvie Island
By Meghan Kalkstein KATU News and KATU.com Staff
Story Published: Jun 14, 2010 at 6:36 PM PDT
Story Updated: Jun 14, 2010 at 8:21 PM PDT

Divers were spotted from the air in waist-deep and chest-deep water in the afternoon at Sauvie Island, and authorities confirmed late in the afternoon that it was part of the search for Kyron. They said tips led them to search the area but would not elaborate.

The Multnomah County Dive Team moved methodically along the Multnomah Channel and checked the water and debris along the river bank. A short time later they packed into vehicles and moved to another area a short distance away. One searcher was spotted using a metal probe to poke into the water and through the waist-high grass of a marshy area

**more at link**

http://www.katu.com/news/local/96341619.html



So, what kind of "tips" are we talking here? Could be someone "saw" someone or something - could be the rumored cell phone pings. But it was a TIP. At least its something from LE. As first they weren't even confirming this search was for Kyron.

 

[CharlestonGal]

I've thought about that. If it really happened that way I really think a phone call from the school would have stopped it.

Yes, I do too. But I also think it was known that call was not going to be made.

 

[DairyGirl]

While I tend to think that pings have led them to where they are searching for all we know it could have been a tip or even a psychic. I have heard weirder things. Especially in Portland.

 

[Deeemdee]

IF the search of the water today was from 'pings' (rumor) would it have taken 10 days for LE to get that info?

This was their fourth day already over at Sauvie Island.

 

[SleuthyGal]

For Kyron to just vanish like that it must mean he was with someone at that school who would not cause other people to think, "hmmmm....what's going on here; why is Kyron with him/her/them?" So it's someone who blends in because they had reason to be at the school and they are not a complete stranger to the school. And Kyron being with them didn't raise any red flags if anyone saw them.

I have no idea what any of that means, but those are my current thoughts on this case. Blending into the crowd as a tactic of then disappearing with a child is the way this seems most plausible to me.

 

[GrainneDhu]

Searchers have good hearts. I don't think that they're resentful at all.

I want to clarify. My friend K, who helped with the search effort, has had nothing but praise for the people she worked with.

 

[ralph_wiggum]

here's an article that came out about an hour ago for those who have missed it:

http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2010/06/kyron_hormans_disappearance_ca.html

enlarge the article's main picture, it is so somber and telling...

 

[CharlestonGal]

This article is from tonight:

Officials defend search efforts, dive teams search Sauvie Island
By Meghan Kalkstein KATU News and KATU.com Staff
Story Published: Jun 14, 2010 at 6:36 PM PDT
Story Updated: Jun 14, 2010 at 8:21 PM PDT

Divers were spotted from the air in waist-deep and chest-deep water in the afternoon at Sauvie Island, and authorities confirmed late in the afternoon that it was part of the search for Kyron. They said tips led them to search the area but would not elaborate.

The Multnomah County Dive Team moved methodically along the Multnomah Channel and checked the water and debris along the river bank. A short time later they packed into vehicles and moved to another area a short distance away. One searcher was spotted using a metal probe to poke into the water and through the waist-high grass of a marshy area

**more at link**

http://www.katu.com/news/local/96341619.html



So, what kind of "tips" are we talking here? Could be someone "saw" someone or something - could be the rumored cell phone pings. But it was a TIP. At least its something from LE. As first they weren't even confirming this search was for Kyron.

Maybe the tip came from a confession? I think a confession might be a 50/50 chance in this situation. I can't make up my mind on that point. Anonymous call to the tipline from someone too freaked out to say anything before? Someone they interviewed today slipped and said something incriminating?

Must have been a good tip if they went out there, I think.

 

[impatientredhead]

This was actually my theory at first, but after 11 days, to say it gently, it would be obvious by now that a body was there in the building. Barring that it would be in a refrigerator or freezer, and while that is possible, I am sure they would have been checked and rechecked.
That being said, if someone had wanted to hide him there until the students and most staff had left the building, it could have been possible. There are storage sheds in back, and in the sky view pictures, there were some type of rolling carts similar to sports equipment carts parked out by that storage shed.

jmoo

http://www.komonews.com/news/84748397.html

This body wasn't found for seven weeks in close quarters.
Someone else had a link to a body that was in a hotel room for weeks.
I agree it is not likely, but it is not out of the question yet that his body is in the school somewhere.

 

[Deeemdee]

The only thing is - LE need 'probable cause' to get a warrant for cell phone pings - unless the records were given to them. That's my understanding. So, if they do have pings, they must have a suspect and a probable cause or the judge would never sign the warrant. moo

Might depend whose name is on the phone account. Ours is in my husband's name.

 

[Astrella613]

For Kyron to just vanish like that it must mean he was with someone at that school who would not cause other people to think, "hmmmm....what's going on here; why is Kyron with him/her/them?" So it's someone who blends in because they had reason to be at the school and they are not a complete stranger to the school. And Kyron being with them didn't raise any red flags if anyone saw them.

I have no idea what any of that means, but those are my current thoughts on this case. Blending into the crowd as a tactic of then disappearing with a child is the way this seems most plausible to me.

Yes, such a small school. Everybody knows everybody, someone had to see something, not making any sense. Do we know if the openhouse was until 8:45 or 10. Were visitors still in the school when classes were viewing the projects?

 

[gibby207]

I think it all boils down to research and what you read, how you research, and like SuziQ said, read the things and tuck it in your mind (I used to write them down early on at WS), but people ought to know what are verifiable facts and what are rumors based on where they read it. It's hard to jump in a forum and decide what's fact and rumor, and the mods try hard to fix that and not create a frenzy. It's appreciated! Research into facts not only is pertinent to Kyron's case, but in ALL aspects of life, say government, etc. lol That being said, you can't always discount what locals say, only tuck away and see if it pans out.

 

[gibby207]

I want to clarify. My friend K, who helped with the search effort, has had nothing but praise for the people she worked with.

Your friend, K, deserves a gold star... blessings to K!!

 

[SoCalSleuth]

EXACTLY.....LE would have taken a completely different direction from day one if this RUMOR was remotely true. They would never risk the time, the safety, and the cost of tramping people from all over the state through woods and ponds if they had a reason to KNOW that the child never wandered away. Anyone who would imply that they did this frivolously when they had witnesses that proved it was unnecessary would be beyond unreasonable.

jmoo

Have to strongly disagree. Ask any prosecutor and they will tell you that this is exactly what they would want or direct LE to do. Remember that absent an eyewitness to a murder--which is uncommon in these types of cases-the case will be proved with circumstantial evidence, i.e. cell phone pings, perp giving wrong story of whereabouts, etc. If they did not search where they knew he was not, the defense could very well convince a jury that there was a rush to judgment, that he could have wandered off, that a million other things happened--but they didn't look. etc. LE's job is not only to gather evidence to obtain a conviction but also to rule out potential defenses.

 

[raeann]

bbm. You can't really do that if your witnesses say, "Oh, we thought they left together." It's not enough.

I believe that is what the witnesses were supposed to think. I do not believe the witnesses were intended to see the actual leaving.

You are correct, but then they aren't really witnesses at all if they just THINK something. So there would be/are no witnesses, just as LE has said repeatedly.

Anyway.....the rumor madness seems to have settled here. I don't know why that is really, as I gave myself a "time out" for a very long hot shower and some fresh clean jammies. Oh, and made sure my hubby got the dinner that I so thoughtfully left out for him.....he really doesn't deserve me....at least that's what I keep telling him. :angel:

Thanks to all who are so passionate about their beliefs...I know that everyone just wants for Kyron to come home again.

 

[raeann]

Have to strongly disagree. Ask any prosecutor and they will tell you that this is exactly what they would want or direct LE to do. Remember that absent an eyewitness to a murder--which is uncommon in these types of cases-the case will be proved with circumstantial evidence, i.e. cell phone pings, perp giving wrong story of whereabouts, etc. If they did not search where they knew he was not, the defense could very well convince a jury that there was a rush to judgment, that he could have wandered off, that a million other things happened--but they didn't look. etc. LE's job is not only to gather evidence to obtain a conviction but also to rule out potential defenses.

OH, they should and would have still searched for him. But a twice corroborated witness statement changes where the center of the grid search begins.

 

[CharlestonGal]

I think it all boils down to research and what you read, how you research, and like SuziQ said, read the things and tuck it in your mind (I used to write them down early on at WS), but people ought to know what are verifiable facts and what are rumors based on where they read it. It's hard to jump in a forum and decide what's fact and rumor, and the mods try hard to fix that and not create a frenzy. It's appreciated! Research into facts not only is pertinent to Kyron's case, but in ALL aspects of life, say government, etc. lol That being said, you can't always discount what locals say, only tuck away and see if it pans out.

I don't dismiss anything either, especially when it's impossible to yet know what to keep and what to throw away. I say keep it until there's valid reason to throw it away.