OR - Kyron Horman, 7 yo Second grader, Portland, 4 June 2010 - Part #8

[Emma Peel]

Okay, I am going to throw it out there - no laughing at me, k?

Animals. I mean if Kyron left the building for whatever reason and got into a wooded area - and there are ALOT of wooded areas, we know that. Or if he got lost trying to walk home - kids do that, we know that as well. I was walking my own property the other day and I turned around and someone's pitbull was staring me in the face. And my cousin just took a photo of a baby bear on her front porch that was very interested in her little granddaughter that was playing there. And where there is a baby bear, mama bear is sure to follow. She lives in the Portland area as well.

Okay, I asked you not to laugh at me. I might cry if you do - LOL

Hey Lotsalatte, no problem!
We need local flavor to help us think locally. I think that's as valid a thing to wonder as any theory about a nature loving wood-wandering little Kyron. You could probably find stats on what sort of serious trouble you can run into in the Oregon woods; animal or insect or poison dangers would surely be on that list. Maybe even above kidnappers.

 

[Amster]

Seems to me that Oregon needs to revise their "protocol". Makes no sense to wait this long for a massive search concerning a lost child.

 

[becksterb]

How would saying that Kyron wandered off on his own (or even along with a few other students) jeopardize any of the other students? Not questioning you...just trying to follow .

Or are you saying that he could have wandered off with other students and LE is protecting those students from media scrutiny (which is exactly what they should do if that's the case)?

Hi mom_of_five - Yes, I should have clarified that. I think LE is protecting the other students while trying to figure all this out. Whether it was just innocent fun or something with ill intent, it involves minors who need to be protected. I think that it may have taken several days to get all the info from the students and that's why SAR was increased later in the week when it all came out that he is definitely in the woods. JMO

 

[amandab]

JBean - that's one of my favorite stories that I used to read to my daughter - thank you for the reminder. It's quite fitting here & now.

 

[mom_of_five]

It is odd that they are so focused on the woods. LE has a definate reason for this IMO The only thing I can think of is that someone has him in the woods,they called either the family or LE, and LE traced the pings of the cell. ***Or that Kyron himself went into the woods that morning. He got lost,tried to get out,and got deeper into the woods. Gave up and called his family. LE traced the pings of his cell phone. Actually, I like the second scenario a lot. No crime was committed, it's unusual because the child has a cell phone, no reward because LE basically knows where he is. All efforts going into locating Kyron in those woods. No help needed from the public. It's a race against time. Yep, that's the one I like for this.***

If only we knew he had a cell phone.....

I would LOVE for this to be the case, but I just don't see LE being so hushhush and 'no commenting' if they KNOW Kyron is out in the woods of his own free will.

 

[Wendy101]

I guess that's true...my youngest has some "spy stuff." I guess "CSI" doesn't always have to involve something gruesome. I probably just spend too much time watching 48 hours and reading Websleuths! :innocent:

Just bouncihng off this CSI converstation (not really responding to your post in particular)

My son is one month younger than Kyron...

Watches CSI, ER, Dr. G Medical Examiner & Discovery Channel. His fav is Dr. G Medical Examiner.

I personally see nothing wrong with Kyrons shirt - or Kyron watching CSI.. I can only hope he applies some of what he learned from the program, in the situation he is currently in.

My son told me if a bad man (he always says man) takes him, he will scratch him so that when the LE finds him he will have the bad guys DNA under his nails!! Is that a bad thing?

He also told me he will try to bite the bad man too - to that his teeth marks are on the bad guy, however, he stresses he will scratch first....Is that a bad thing?

All I can say is thank you to CSI producers!!

 

[Emma Peel]

Hi everyone,
I'm new to the boards! I live just a few miles south of the school (in a much more populated area).

Like all of you, I'm beyond puzzled by this case. I can almost buy into the kidnap/ransom/threat theory because it would explain the family's silence, LE continuing to hold PCs even when they refuse to say anything, an officer stationed at the house, etc. The part where I get stuck is that I don't think they would have all those searchers out there at risk of getting injured and at a high cost, and then increase the amount of searchers, just to make it look like they don't have any clues.

So that leaves me with either a) they *think* they have a kidnap case and are hot on its trail, but they are not 100% certain, so they need to continue the search on the chance that Kyron is still lost in the woods and they might find him alive; b) they think it's a kidnap case and he has been hidden in the woods by his abductor; c) the worst outcome which I don't even want to type; or d) they really are as without a clue as they seem to be with their answers.

One question I have - they keep wanting to talk to the media off camera. If they are asking them to report or not report certain aspects of the story, is the media obligated to follow their wishes? Or is there maybe a media "code of ethics" that would make them do so? I ask because it seems like they have been somewhat less vulturous than usual with various aspects of this story (like how someone mentioned today they didn't ask any questions about the family), and it's surprising to me.

Well, if they want to get future interviews, on all sorts of other LE matters, yes, they'd abide by the "code" - maybe call it cooperation and good working relationship with LE sources. I would think most news persons hope to be a go-to trusted reporter for LE sources.

Welcome dorothyz! It's great to see some Portland regional folks posting! Your input helps us process & think - in ways you might not realize!

 

[Calliope]

Hi everyone,
I'm new to the boards! I live just a few miles south of the school (in a much more populated area).

Like all of you, I'm beyond puzzled by this case. I can almost buy into the kidnap/ransom/threat theory because it would explain the family's silence, LE continuing to hold PCs even when they refuse to say anything, an officer stationed at the house, etc. The part where I get stuck is that I don't think they would have all those searchers out there at risk of getting injured and at a high cost, and then increase the amount of searchers, just to make it look like they don't have any clues.

So that leaves me with either a) they *think* they have a kidnap case and are hot on its trail, but they are not 100% certain, so they need to continue the search on the chance that Kyron is still lost in the woods and they might find him alive; b) they think it's a kidnap case and he has been hidden in the woods by his abductor; c) the worst outcome which I don't even want to type; or d) they really are as without a clue as they seem to be with their answers.

One question I have - they keep wanting to talk to the media off camera. If they are asking them to report or not report certain aspects of the story, is the media obligated to follow their wishes? Or is there maybe a media "code of ethics" that would make them do so? I ask because it seems like they have been somewhat less vulturous than usual with various aspects of this story (like how someone mentioned today they didn't ask any questions about the family), and it's surprising to me.

Welcome!

I don't suppose they're obligated per se, but if they ever want another single morsel of information from LE again, they'd best go along with what's being asked of them.

This press conference was considerably different from yesterday's---before Gates asked to speak to press in private. I noticed they didn't ask the same sort of questions as they had been on previous days, questions they knew would get a "no comment". I suspect he told them why he's being 'cagy' with his answers. Not in specifics, of course, but I think he impressed upon them the importance of keeping such details under wraps.

 

[pufnstuf]

How does the weather and lighting conditions and terrain (such a thick canopy of brush and trees) affect the efficacy of the infrared? That might be why it's not being used?

The ANG used infrared/heat detection earlier in the search. They aren't using it at present.

The most modern infrared can "see" up to 12 miles and isn't as affected by foliage as earlier infrared was. (source - Wired Magazine, Nov 2009)

I think that the most telling comment to come out of the conference today was the admission that they are no longer using infrared in the search.

 

[mom_of_five]

Hi mom_of_five - Yes, I should have clarified that. I think LE is protecting the other students while trying to figure all this out. Whether it was just innocent fun or something with ill intent, it involves minors who need to be protected. I think that it may have taken several days to get all the info from the students and that's why SAR was increased later in the week when it all came out that he is definitely in the woods. JMO

Thanks . I think this is a very plausible theory, but LE could say their evidence points to his having wandered off with a few other students...they would never have to identify those students. I don't know. My brain hurts. LOL.

 

[Kimberlyd125]

Speaking of CSI and kids...

We live in a small town with our own community school system. It's seperate from the Parish (county to y'all) school system.

Our middle school teaches forensics as an elective in grade 6.

The world is a changin!!!

 

[4BB]

Another reason for no "civilian" volunteers could be that there may be an abduction theory and they are searching for Kyron and his perp in the woods. This could be a dangerous situation to stumble upon by an untrained volunteer.

OR

They are giving out a little more information to the trained SAR and it is information they are not comfortable with "civilian" volunteers knowing yet

 

[scandi]

Hi Scandi,
Perhaps the most out of the box thing I can think of is if it's a kidnapping which somehow involves Intel. Never heard of anything like that happening here in the USA,but,it does happen in other countries. Please understand, I'm delberately looking at exotic, far out things. Things that might be unique.... On the other hand,the Fbi agent could simply have meant uniqure because a child was taken from inside an elementary school..... Who knows ?

Thanks Liz, I don't think your idea is that far out of the box since his dad works there. Someone who Kyron might recognize as a person of authority {older}, maybe someone who had assisted the student who did the electrical project who works there, etc. So many Intel workers live in that area.

I woke up this morning thinking 'targeted'. It would go right along with that if someone was jealous of his dad, felt threatened in some way related to Kyron or his family. Just sayin'

The last words out of Kyron's mouth were to his friend that he was going to see the electrical project and I have a strong feeling the person was in that area who lured him out. IMO

 

[cluciano63]

Does that new search protocol say to wait until the 6-7th day to call in more searchers? That hardly makes sense to me...

 

[theissueathand]

Just bouncihng off this CSI converstation (not really responding to your post in particular)

My son is one month younger than Kyron...

Watches CSI, ER, Dr. G Medical Examiner & Discovery Channel. His fav is Dr. G Medical Examiner.

I personally see nothing wrong with Kyrons shirt - or Kyron watching CSI.. I can only hope he does some of the things he has learned on the programs.

My son told me if a bad man (he always says man) takes him, he will sctatch him so that when the LE finds him he will have the bad guys DNA under his nails!! Is that a bad thing?

He also told me he will try to bite the bad man too - to that his teeth marks are on the bad guy, however, he stresses he will scratch first....Is that a bad thing?

All I can say is thank you to CSI producers!!

My son is also around Kyron's age and he loves the CSI shows. He has watched pretty much every episode of Bones with me, and he is smarter for it. I know we want to preserve our kids innocence, but in the world we live in it's not always possible. I hope that Kyron wherever he is, is able to use some of the things he may have learned from CSI to lead searchers to him.

 

[pufnstuf]

Neat article about thermal imaging from Wired:

http://www.wired.com/magazine/2009/10/st_tool_thermal_imager/

 

[Emma Peel]

Here's something to give you a chuckle

:rolling:
how true, but seriously, there are at least 4 of those elephant people in my head at once arguing with each other while the 5th one looks in the medicine cabinet for more Excedrin. :crazy:

 

[watchful_eye]

Hi raeann,

It is great advice for kids: A mommy (with a carriage or children with her), a cashier, or a police officer. My 6 year old neice somehow got separated from my sister, (her mother), at the mall last year and my neice did exactly what she was taught by my sister---she found a cashier lady and told her she lost her mommy. The cashier called the mall security, they both took her the security office, and although I forgot how, my sister and my neice reunited without any issue other than Allison and my sis being shaken up.

My neice also knows her address, phone number, and even as a very little girl, knew her full name and how to spell it. As for knowing how to dial 911, I think she may have learned that in school??? Unsure. There are so many other tactics and tricks to watch for are so important for kids to know. Just look at the recent case this week where the little boy slipped out of his backpack---he said he learned that in school to avoid strangers. Saved his life.

 

[Calliope]

Another reason for no "civilian" volunteers could be that there may be an abduction theory and they are searching for Kyron and his perp in the woods. This could be a dangerous situation to stumble upon by an untrained volunteer.

OR

They are giving out a little more information to the trained SAR and it is information they are not comfortable with "civilian" volunteers knowing yet

or the perp might just volunteer for a search, and destroy or move evidence?

 

[pdx]

One question I have - they keep wanting to talk to the media off camera. If they are asking them to report or not report certain aspects of the story, is the media obligated to follow their wishes? Or is there maybe a media "code of ethics" that would make them do so? I ask because it seems like they have been somewhat less vulturous than usual with various aspects of this story (like how someone mentioned today they didn't ask any questions about the family), and it's surprising to me.

Hi neighbor
There was some discussion in yesterday's thread about whether or not the media is required to back off at LE request (they used to, in the good old days)... IMO, and you know what a small town it is here, if they want to keep good access for the future, they play ball appropriately when requested. Obviously, there is journalistic interest in the case, mostly caused by our own curiosity about what on earth could have happened here, but if there is nothing to tell that will *help the case*.. maybe the newsiesare using common sense.

You probably noticed, as I did again this morning, that the Oregonian hasn't run a single letter to the editor on this. With all the discussion about this case, that's.. interesting, to me.

Seems to me that Oregon needs to revise their "protocol". Makes no sense to wait this long for a massive search concerning a lost child.

Um, this *is* the new search protocol, and it's a vast improvement.. the Mult Co Sheriff is positively moved by the outpouring of support and coordination under this new protocol.
Due to the terrain, I believe it would have been pointless to have too many bodies on the ground. It's not flat, and there were limited areas that are even possible to search/get to within the 2 mile radius.
IMO, the search *has* been massive; now it's more massive.