OR - Public health emergency declared over measles anti-vax hotspot near Portland and NY, Jan 2019

[Simply Southern]

Are people who smoke denied insurance coverage because second-hand smoke harms others? I don't know. Or anything similar?

In the US, insurance premiums are almost double for those that smoke. We have several physicians that refuse to treat patients that smoke, employers are now pre-employment testing for tobacco and will not hire, if positive, cities have passed laws preventing indoor and outdoor smoking, all to prevent risk to others.

If folks don't want to vaccinate their children, it may be their right (legally). What is my legal right to protection from exposure?

Should there be a penalty/laws for exposing another person, someone that is unable to be vaccinated due to health condition or a child under the age of certain vaccinations to a life threatening event?

Many cases of HIV/STD exposure have resulted in damage lawsuits and jail time.
Should we expect the same for those that choose to frequent public venues knowing they are creating risk?

 

[gitana1]

Nope. Tri-care has to approve doctors first. I live in a city with a military post and only about half the doctors will work with Tri-care and most of the pharmacies no longer will accept Tri-Care. So while I can just take my kids to the urgent-care clinic as needed, the military folks pretty much have to make an appointment with on base clinic (which is usually a week or so wait) or go to the emergency room at the hospital. Tri-care is a dumpster fire.

Medicare is pretty great though. Top level care in California at least. And that's government. I have seen it firsthand because my mother in law is on it and her sons who I had to help raise. 100% government care. They had the very same level of care that my parents had with the best health care available. Same hospitals, specialist access, etc.

Not allowing kids access to medical care would just make things worse, IMO.

 

[gitana1]

Measles accelerates to 2nd-highest level in US in 25 years

555 cases diagnosed so far in 2019

Geez. Meanwhile, only one confirmed in Mexico for a whole year.

Here's a link to the cases worldwide. It's amazing how this is spreading. European countries have quire a bit too considering how small they are:

Worldwide Measles Spotlight: March 10, 2019

Also, per the link, the cost to treat one patient in the US is pretty bad.

"Additionally, a new study published on March 5, 2019, clarified the average cost to provide care for a measles case during 2017. This study reported the negative economic impact was approximately $78,356 USD per patient."

 

[gitana1]

The problem is when you live in more rural areas, doctors can choose which insurance companies to be on, so, they pick the ones with the highest return.

In places with more providers and competition, doctors, especially new ones, are more flexible with who they will take.

Here in Montana, just recently, a law was passed that a pharmcist can give immunizations to children. That is significant. So, just take the kids to the CVS or whatever pharmacy, get shots. No expense for medical appointment. Reduce barriers to getting immunizations.

We have that in CA.

 

[gitana1]

Yes.

I mentioned upthread that I knew moms in my "playground crowd" who were anti-vax or delay vaxers, but when they changed their minds or when they wanted to get their kids up-to-date, they worried about being ridiculed by medical staff. This was a concern (whether it's warranted or not, I don't know).

Scoffing at and judging parents will only push them away or delay compliance more. If they could go to a drug store and get up-to-date with no questions asked, I think that would be great. Everyone would benefit.

jmo

I have never heard of medical staff scoffing at people coming in to do the right thing in terms of healthcare. These people feels shame because they know they did the wrong thing.

 

[Inthedetails]

Not allowing kids access to medical care would just make things worse, IMO.

Snipped.

I don't understand the idea of deny health insurance coverage to children. It's not their decision to be un-vaccinated. And, yes, I think it would make things worse.

jmo

 

[Inthedetails]

I have never heard of medical staff scoffing at people coming in to do the right thing in terms of healthcare. These people feels shame because they know they did the wrong thing.

I agree! But the concern is real for some parents. It would cost little to reassure parents they are WELCOME to get their kids vaccinated.

I know I'm repeating myself - but make it easy and reassure parents it will be easy. We want compliance, after all. Woo 'em not boo 'em.

jmo

 

[nightowl1975]

And so if a family refuses to vaccinate and my child dies because of it, then what? They are choosing for my child

Well, I would assume your child is vaccinated, as are mine. So I don’t live in fear that my child is going to die from measles. Because they’re vaccinated and all.

 

[nightowl1975]

I am confused. I know people with Tri Care and they get to go to doctors of their choice.

In the early 2000’s, pregnant women stationed where we were at the time were not allowed to disenroll from Tricare Prime and see civilian doctors. I don’t know if it was like that everywhere. By the mid-2000’s, when I had my fourth, we were allowed to disenroll and have civilian doctors. I cannot tell you how thankful I was for that change.

 

[nightowl1975]

Medicare is pretty great though. Top level care in California at least. And that's government. I have seen it firsthand because my mother in law is on it and her sons who I had to help raise. 100% government care. They had the very same level of care that my parents had with the best health care available. Same hospitals, specialist access, etc.

Not allowing kids access to medical care would just make things worse, IMO.

Medicare is drastically different than universal health care. It’s a payer source. Not a universal system. It’s really no different than having group insurance through your job at the end of the day.

A better comparison for universal health care would be some of the closed HMO’s, but even those pale in comparison to my experience with military medicine. The average US citizen seems to think if we had universal health care, that their care would be basically comparable to what they currently have but it would be “free”. That’s just not how universal health care works.

 

[Alyciamarie]

Well, I would assume your child is vaccinated, as are mine. So I don’t live in fear that my child is going to die from measles. Because they’re vaccinated and all.

what about babies under a year? My 7 month old cannot have the vaccine yet and I’m absolutely terrified of her getting measles after recent outbreaks where we live. The vaccines are also meant to protect those who cannot have them.

 

[nightowl1975]

what about babies under a year? My 7 month old cannot have the vaccine yet and I’m absolutely terrified of her getting measles after recent outbreaks where we live. The vaccines are also meant to protect those who cannot have them.

Well, I would look at the actual risk of my infant dying of measles if they were to become infected before I decided how afraid I should be. The risk of death or permanent debilitating injury from measles is about 1 in 8000. I’m not saying I would take my infant to a measles party, but I wouldn’t hide in my house during an outbreak either. I would be far more afraid of polio because the risks there are much more significant.

Of course, it’s all relative. I live with odds of 1 in 7 that my child will die of a brain tumor. So 1 in 8000 seems.... very, very low. YMMV.

 

[mickey2942]

I agree! But the concern is real for some parents. It would cost little to reassure parents they are WELCOME to get their kids vaccinated.

I know I'm repeating myself - but make it easy and reassure parents it will be easy. We want compliance, after all. Woo 'em not boo 'em.

jmo

I hate, loathe and dispise "medical shaming".

 

[gitana1]

Medicare is drastically different than universal health care. It’s a payer source. Not a universal system. It’s really no different than having group insurance through your job at the end of the day.

A better comparison for universal health care would be some of the closed HMO’s, but even those pale in comparison to my experience with military medicine. The average US citizen seems to think if we had universal health care, that their care would be basically comparable to what they currently have but it would be “free”. That’s just not how universal health care works.

Medicare is government health care. And in CA it's amazing. Universal health care is not like military care in most nations.

Most of my family lives in Europe (Holland and Spain) and I have close friends in New Zealand and Australia. I'm very familiar with those systems. I still get treatment in Spain because it's superior for certain things, like my skin condition which was never adequately treated here, my whole childhood until age 21.

My aunt in Spain had the same cancer as my dad here in the states, who had the best insurance ever. My aunt was diagnosed and began chemo within TWO WEEKS. She was able to move from Madrid to Sevilla and continue chemo, when she wanted to be closer to the rest of our family. No gaps in care.

My dad didn't receive treatment for two months after he first got the bad x Ray.

I'm super familiar with the difference in systems. Most Americans are not- having not revived treatment in those systems and/or not knowing anyone or maybe only one or two people in a universal health care nation.

The fact is our relative health is poorer than comparable nations (western democratic nations) with universal healthcare. That's fact:

How does U.S. life expectancy compare to other countries? - Peterson-Kaiser Health System Tracker

We rank last in health compared to those nations:

A group that bashes U.S. health care every year has a new zinger

Unfortauntely, even though Europeans are smarter than us when it comes to health care systems, they're matching us now with anti-vaxxer conspiracy nonsense and it's leading to a boom in measles cases over there.

 

[BetteDavisEyes]

This nurse is on a mission to dispel anti-vaccine myths

Melody Butler, founder of Nurses Who Vaccinate, says it's important for medical professionals to spread the word that vaccine are safe and effective.

 

[BetteDavisEyes]

Michigan measles outbreak linked to New York

DETROIT - Michigan health officials confirm the measles outbreak in Oakland County is linked to the ongoing outbreak in New York.

Lynn Sutfin, public information officer for the Michigan Department of Health and Human Services, told CNN that a male individual from New York traveled to southeast Michigan by vehicle...

 

[Inthedetails]

Michigan measles outbreak linked to New York

DETROIT - Michigan health officials confirm the measles outbreak in Oakland County is linked to the ongoing outbreak in New York.

Lynn Sutfin, public information officer for the Michigan Department of Health and Human Services, told CNN that a male individual from New York traveled to southeast Michigan by vehicle...

Interesting!

Interesting in that sleuthy-mystery kind of way - to figure out what happened by examining the details and making connections.

jmo

 

[FrostOwl]

Geez. Meanwhile, only one confirmed in Mexico for a whole year.

Here's a link to the cases worldwide. It's amazing how this is spreading. European countries have quire a bit too considering how small they are:

Worldwide Measles Spotlight: March 10, 2019

In Sweden there have been 4 cases of measles in 2019 this far, it's 0.04 cases on 100.000 individuals/year. In 2018 there were 43 cases, making it 0.43 cases on 100.000 individuals/year, and the highest number of cases were in 2013, 51 cases and 0.52 per 100.000 individuals/year. The numbers are from a Swedish healthcare statistics site: Mässling – sjukdomsstatistik — Folkhälsomyndigheten
Most of the cases have happened in the three largest cities in Sweden. The best way to compare numbers is to see how many cases there are in 100.000 individuals/year, as it's difficult to know how common a disease is in a population if you just have a number of how many cases there are, if you don't know how large the population in a specific area is.

 

[Inthedetails]

"New York City closed a preschool program at a yeshiva in Brooklyn on Monday for violating a Health Department order that required it to provide medical and attendance records amid a measles outbreak."

The article also states 329 cases since the fall, which in a city the size of NYC may seem small, but the cases are mostly within a smaller community and in specific areas, not spread throughout the entire population of about 8 million. The cases also are not coming from immigrants (as has been suggested upthread, it seems), but from unvaccinated citizens returning from overseas travels and then spreading here.

"The outbreak began after unvaccinated individuals returned from celebrating Sukkot, a Jewish harvest festival, in Israel."

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/04/15/nyregion/measles-nyc-yeshiva-closing.htm

 

[gitana1]

Well, I would look at the actual risk of my infant dying of measles if they were to become infected before I decided how afraid I should be. The risk of death or permanent debilitating injury from measles is about 1 in 8000. I’m not saying I would take my infant to a measles party, but I wouldn’t hide in my house during an outbreak either. I would be far more afraid of polio because the risks there are much more significant.

Of course, it’s all relative. I live with odds of 1 in 7 that my child will die of a brain tumor. So 1 in 8000 seems.... very, very low. YMMV.

I'm not sure where you're getting your stats from? They seem a bit off.

1 in 20 kids suffers pneumonia as a complication from measles, which is the leading cause of death in kids who contract measles.

1 in 1,000 develops encephalitis that can lead to permanent disability and 1 in 1,000 who contract the measles dies from it:

Measles | Complications | CDC

Pediatric deaths from all cancers is about 2.28 children per 100,000, and 29.9% of those deaths is from brain cancers. Not sure where 1 in 7 comes from!

Brain cancer is now the leading cancer killer of kids

But the risk of being injured in a conpensable manner by a vaccine is about 1 per one million. And that very, very, very rarely includes death:

https://www.hrsa.gov/sites/default/files/hrsa/vaccine-compensation/data/monthly-stats-may-2018.pdf

Well, I would assume your child is vaccinated, as are mine. So I don’t live in fear that my child is going to die from measles. Because they’re vaccinated and all.

While the measles vaccine is very, very effective, it's not 100%. So occasionally children who have been vaccinated can still contract the measles.

You could get the measles, even if you're vaccinated

Thus, we rely on herd immunity. It was herd immunity that essentially eradicated measles in the US. Until now.