OR OR - Stephanie Warner, 43, Ruch, 4 Jul 2013 - #2

[Lilibet]

Just a little bit of info that may help - these guys are really pushed for time, because they are so often out searching, and bringing our missing home. If you ask them to read through an entire thread they probably won't be able to do it.

It is hard work, but if anyone can make a short summary of the case in a single post, especially highlighting any SAR issues, then direct our SAR people to that, then they are more likely to be able to help. If that post is then also linked into someone's signature, it makes it easier to find for everyone else too.

There are examples in mine, for Bob. He has his own SAR thread and you can maybe pick up some tips there? You'll often find Grainne and Oriah there. They are lovely.

It will be a good day when Stephanie comes home.

Thanks so much for chiming in with this advice, Zweibel. Before getting SAR WSers involved, and taking up their time, I would be curious to know exactly how they could or would help in this case. I'd be happy to write up a summary, but I'm not sure what we are asking the SAR people. I did do a bit of reading where you suggested, but maybe not enough to understand. While I await your guidance, I'll keep reading.

Both SAR and a cadaver dogs were used within a week of Stephanie's disappearance on July 10-11, as well as a grid search and helicopter search of the Applegate River. It was determined by the dogs that she had not left the area on foot. Her car was used from late at night July 4 (the date she was last seen) into early morning July 5, but we don't know the exact time frame. It was found parked at her house.

In late August dogs were also used in the national forest in the area around where POI Lennie Ames had camped (on his mining claim). We don't know what they were looking for or what they found. Evidence was seized from the mining claim.

POI and his son have extensive knowledge of the national forest. The national forest is vast and stretches down into northern CA. There are caves. There are illegal marijuana gardens. Both Neptune and Sasquatch have done a lot with Google Earth up in that area.

So far, LE has said Stephanie disappeared under suspicious circumstances, but they have not called this a homicide investigation, to my knowledge.

Given this info, if you could give us some guidance as to what we would be asking the SAR WSers, I would be happy to write up something for them to get their teeth into (sorry, couldn't resist). Thanks again!

 

[Lilibet]

While cruising around over on a thread connected with SAR, I ran across this amazing, miraculous story about a missing young woman who was reunited with her family. She had seen the FB page her sil set up and the thread on WS about her that her brother participated in. She decided to go to the police station. I'll let you read the rest of the story.

Although we would love for this happy outcome for Stephanie, it is my hope that the efforts made by WS and on FB may touch hearts and move someone who knows something to come forward.

Read and cry.

http://members.jacksonville.com/new...y-disappearance-camden-woman-home-her-parents

 

[OUOTP]

while cruising around over on a thread connected with sar, i ran across this amazing, miraculous story about a missing young woman who was reunited with her family. She had seen the fb page her sil set up and the thread on ws about her that her brother participated in. She decided to go to the police station. I'll let you read the rest of the story.

Although we would love for this happy outcome for stephanie, it is my hope that the efforts made by ws and on fb may touch hearts and move someone who knows something to come forward.

Read and cry.

http://members.jacksonville.com/new...y-disappearance-camden-woman-home-her-parents

wow!!!

 

[Lilibet]

I'm still looking around on the Bob Harrod SAR thread. Someone there started a FB page aimed specifically at hikers, backpackers, geocachers. I'm wondering if that focus (especially hunters) could be incorporated into Stephanie's page while the weather is still pretty good. I don't see the need for a new page, necessarily, but maybe a new linkable poster and a heading along those lines and a series of posts. Maybe links to some of the Google Earth spots Neptune and Sasquatch have posted? Local outdoor stores and gun stores could be sent the link to a printable poster.

I'm not volunteering, just throwing out ideas.

https://www.facebook.com/FindRobertHarrod

 

[elmomom]

While cruising around over on a thread connected with SAR, I ran across this amazing, miraculous story about a missing young woman who was reunited with her family. She had seen the FB page her sil set up and the thread on WS about her that her brother participated in. She decided to go to the police station. I'll let you read the rest of the story.

Although we would love for this happy outcome for Stephanie, it is my hope that the efforts made by WS and on FB may touch hearts and move someone who knows something to come forward.

Read and cry.

http://members.jacksonville.com/new...y-disappearance-camden-woman-home-her-parents

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=184657&highlight=Ivy+merck

This was ivy's WS thread. (One of them anyhow). I still get very emotional when I think of that case. I was so worried for her, I was sure she was off on a suicidal journey.
Stephanie is a beautiful soul as well, but I fear the outcome is going to be quite different. Justice and a homecoming, of sorts, it is what she deserves at the very least.

 

[Lilibet]

As I read the Bob Harrod SAR thread, I'm just going to throw ideas out here. Maybe let us know if you want to follow up and take on a task.

One thing they have done is look at areas on Google Earth, specifically searching for areas along a road where someone could easily make a three-point turn. Apparently, it's common for someone dumping a body to choose a spot like that. Since the roads in the national forest are narrow, this would narrow the focus.

Unfortunately, this is a vast area, very familiar to POI and son. It wouldn't necessarily have to be near his mine(s). In fact, as Neptune posted on the last thread, it's possible, and even likely that Stephanie never made it home (She would have called her Mom and Dicentra right away). The car (an off-road SUV) could have stopped in an isolated area late at night, the deed done outside the car, covered up, and the car brought to Stephanie's early in the morning. (Apologies to Steph's friends and family reading here).

We don't know how many times the car was started and stopped and started after leaving Ashland. If she did make it home, that would take slightly less than an hour. POI's claim that they parted company at the Ruch Market around 5:00 pm has never been verified.

I'm not sure how much info these alcohol devices record. LE has only told us that it was used for several hours(?) late at night July 4 into early morning July 5. The implication was that the car was driven somewhere from Stephanie's home, but that was never stated specifically. I hope whoever has specific info on this with LE has done some serious mapping.

 

[Sasquatch]

As I read the Bob Harrod SAR thread, I'm just going to throw ideas out here. Maybe let us know if you want to follow up and take on a task.

One thing they have done is look at areas on Google Earth, specifically searching for areas along a road where someone could easily make a three-point turn. Apparently, it's common for someone dumping a body to choose a spot like that. Since the roads in the national forest are narrow, this would narrow the focus........"

Thank you Lilibet for sharing all of this information, and starting a brainstorm session. It is great to see you zwiebel! Thank you for the wonderful tips and for sharing my Google Maps Sleuthing Guide last May, on the Bob Harod Thread! Lilibet was kind enough to share it on this thread! I am going to share some of the SAR Guides that I found and had posted on the Google Maps Sleuthing thread. The SAR Guides might be great references for working on this case, as well as on others.


Cut and pasted from my post in the Google Maps Sleuthing Thread:
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=197262

Here is a useful guide from The Search and Rescue Tracking Institute out of Virginia. It explains what their people are trained to look for when searching for a person or deceased individual. It includes some statistics, things to look for in disturbed soil and vegetation, body decomposition and different animals that might be around because of the body.


(The Search for Human Remains in the SAR Environment 33 Pages PDF Format (SARTI-Mark Gleason) 3-08
www.sarti.us/sarti/files/SearchForHumanRemains.pdf

Excerpt from the PDF file:
"Citing FBI statistics, Vass indicates that clandestine graves are typically no deeper than
2.5 feet, are “close” to water or “near” a poorly traveled road, are 10 feet away from the nearest large tree, and contain a clothed or wrapped corpse which will be face down"....
"Recovery sites are largely rural (51%). The geographical profile for the recovery sites includes:
1. Remote areas with vehicle/road access
2. Near or in water
3. Within ½ mile of an intersection
4. Dirt roads are favored over paved roads
5. Body often within 150 feet of access road
6. Body located to downhill side if sloped ground is present."

Here is a link to the SARTI site, with other search and rescue PDF guides:
http://sarti.us/sarti/reference.php

The Search for Human Remains in the Search and Rescue Environment,
Analysis of Fading in Soda Cans, Observations re: Children's Foot & Shoe Sizes, Following Blood Trails updated August 2007

 

[Sad Eyes]

While cruising around over on a thread connected with SAR, I ran across this amazing, miraculous story about a missing young woman who was reunited with her family. She had seen the FB page her sil set up and the thread on WS about her that her brother participated in. She decided to go to the police station. I'll let you read the rest of the story.

Although we would love for this happy outcome for Stephanie, it is my hope that the efforts made by WS and on FB may touch hearts and move someone who knows something to come forward.

Read and cry.

http://members.jacksonville.com/new...y-disappearance-camden-woman-home-her-parents[/QUOTE

Lilibet I can always count on you to give me hope! What a wonderful story! I love happy endings! :loveyou:

 

[Sad Eyes]

Another funny Stephanie Story to make Sad Eyes Smile!

I am holding Lily - or rather she is holding me! Lil's is purring like a mad-cat, rubbing up against me and I dare not put her down due to her destructive nature! She's a black and white DSH, with an adorable question-mark tail, whom Stephanie referred to as "My devil child." (Make sure you "hear" this story with a touch of a New Orleans accent).

Steph was at my house doing laundry and she was out working in the garden when it was ready to come out of the dryer, so I took out the laundry and put it on our "laundry chair" and started folding. That's when I noticed the small, rat-chewed holes in her cotton undies. Try as I might, I couldn't figure out HOW so many small holes had been made; the undergarments didn't appear to be especially old or worn, just full of small holes! When Sissy came in to take a break, I asked her HOW in God's name she'd gotten those holes in her clothes. She started laughing and said, "That's thanks to my Devil Child, Lily! She LOVES to chew holes in natural fibers, especially cotton!" Then she picked up a fitted sheet and displayed the holes Lil's had made in them. Lily had ruined most of Steph's good clothes before she understood the level of commitment Lily has to chewing.

Many people would have given up and gotten rid of Lily, but NOT Steph! She hung on to that cat for 9 years. When I started looking for friends that might adopt Stephanie's "babies" I knew where Lily would go; she is with me, and I'm sure Stephanie, wherever she is, is laughing at the fact that I've inherited her most beloved, destructive baby, Lily!

P.S. Lily has two lovely beds; one in a chair in the Mud room and one in a warm corner of the water-tower (that is attached to my house). My son brings in Lily for lovies every morning and we both bring her in (supervised and kept far from the laundry chair) at night for some extra TLC.

My heart and prayers are with you, Sad Eyes.

Thank you Dicentra! I'm glad you shared this story. Yes, you made me smile! Sending you hugs & wishing you a peaceful weekend!

 

[Sad Eyes]

Unfortunately, this is a vast area, very familiar to POI and son. It wouldn't necessarily have to be near his mine(s). In fact, as Neptune posted on the last thread, it's possible, and even likely that Stephanie never made it home (She would have called her Mom and Dicentra right away). The car (an off-road SUV) could have stopped in an isolated area late at night, the deed done outside the car, covered up, and the car brought to Stephanie's early in the morning. (Apologies to Steph's friends and family reading here).

Quote snipped by me. Lilibet I agree with you & Neptune. I don't think she made it home after the parade either. Which means she could be anywhere betwee Ashland & Ruch. And that's if they were headed to Ruch! Who's to say they weren't going somewhere else before heading home to Ruch!
This is totally off the subject but no one has ever mentioned GAS. Does anyone know when was the last TIME & PLACE Stephanie put gas in her SUV? Did she stop anywhere that day (July 4th) to put gas in the SUV? Just wondering.

 

[Sad Eyes]

Where is everybody???

 

[Sad Eyes]

Thank you Lilibet for sharing all of this information, and starting a brainstorm session. It is great to see you zwiebel! Thank you for the wonderful tips and for sharing my Google Maps Sleuthing Guide last May, on the Bob Harod Thread! Lilibet was kind enough to share it on this thread! I am going to share some of the SAR Guides that I found and had posted on the Google Maps Sleuthing thread. The SAR Guides might be great references for working on this case, as well as on others.


Cut and pasted from my post in the Google Maps Sleuthing Thread:
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=197262

Here is a useful guide from The Search and Rescue Tracking Institute out of Virginia. It explains what their people are trained to look for when searching for a person or deceased individual. It includes some statistics, things to look for in disturbed soil and vegetation, body decomposition and different animals that might be around because of the body.


(The Search for Human Remains in the SAR Environment 33 Pages PDF Format (SARTI-Mark Gleason) 3-08
www.sarti.us/sarti/files/SearchForHumanRemains.pdf

Excerpt from the PDF file:
"Citing FBI statistics, Vass indicates that clandestine graves are typically no deeper than
2.5 feet, are “close” to water or “near” a poorly traveled road, are 10 feet away from the nearest large tree, and contain a clothed or wrapped corpse which will be face down"....
"Recovery sites are largely rural (51%). The geographical profile for the recovery sites includes:
1. Remote areas with vehicle/road access
2. Near or in water
3. Within ½ mile of an intersection
4. Dirt roads are favored over paved roads
5. Body often within 150 feet of access road
6. Body located to downhill side if sloped ground is present."

Here is a link to the SARTI site, with other search and rescue PDF guides:
http://sarti.us/sarti/reference.php

The Search for Human Remains in the Search and Rescue Environment,
Analysis of Fading in Soda Cans, Observations re: Children's Foot & Shoe Sizes, Following Blood Trails updated August 2007

Very good info Sasquatch! I will take my time tmrw to read the 33 page report. My eyes can't handle that many pages at night! Thank you for posting it for us to be able to understand what is being discussed on here. Participating on this thread has become a very big learning experience for me. Unfortunately, the more I am learning the more complicating this case is becoming!

 

[Lilibet]

Where is everybody???

We're baaaaaaack! :seeya:

WS was down from late last night until early this evening. :tantrum:

I can't say I had a very productive day though. Oh well. fftobed:

Now I need to go find what I was in the process of posting when it went down. :lookingitup:

 

[Dicentra]

I don't know about Gas, but we did GPS Stephanie's last known whereabouts, starting from the parade route: we GPS'ed the Store she stopped at first (spoke with the owner who said LE had previously been there and watched taped footage), she also said she remembered Stephanie being at the store and that she did purchase some items, but couldn't recall what specific items were purchased, due to the fact the 4th was so busy. The owner stated she thought Stephanie had been there late in the afternoon, but she couldn't give me an exact time. We also GPS'd Steph's house, the Ruch store and several other locations we were told might be helpful in finding Stephanie.

 

[Dicentra]

I agree with you all. My heart and the information we've gathered tell me that Sissy never made it home the night of the 4th. My evidence for this is two-fold. 1) She would have called me and her Mama to tell us all about the parade. 2) She never played that on-line poker "Hold 'em" game when we were on the phone together; I'd hang up! She KNEW it drove me crazy when she called me in the PM before she went to sleep and was trying to talk with me and play that game at the same time. Our agreement was that she call me BEFORE she started playing that game so she wasn't distracted. When I heard it had been played the night of the 4th, I KNEW it wasn't by HER!

I am hoping that her laptop (a macbook pro) is actually being worked on by the crime lab by now. There's GOT to be a REASON the POI dumped an entire glass of Pepsi on that laptop two weeks before Stephanie was abducted.

I see new people on Sissy's thread. THANK YOU for helping us find Stephanie!

Lilbet, I am grateful that you are being so forthright about the circumstances. I don't want my hope to muddy the waters of truth. Stephanie deserves to be found.

For years I led a Hospice bereavement group. Losing a loved one is always difficult, especially around the holidays, but it is FAR more difficult to have someone "missing" and not know where they are. You lay awake wondering and hoping and knowing that what you think must have happened, can't possibly be what really happened...

 

[Lilibet]

I found the stuff I was about to post last night when WS went down.

In reference to the excellent info Sasquatch posted about the most likely places people hide bodies in the woods, I've gone back to the first thread to find some info and coordinates Neptune posted (edited for space by me). If anyone want to start cruising around on Google Earth, pinpointing possibilities, go for it and post your ideas. They may come in handy at some point. Also, keep an eye out for places on narrow roads where a three-point turn would be possible, per Bob Harrod's SAR thread.

#341
08-29-2013, 11:27 PM
Neptune
Registered User

Ames' claim is named Bobcat Placer. Placer claims appear to usually be located near water -- confluence of two streams with deposits of unconsolidated materials, such as sand and gravel, containing free gold or other minerals.

Document indicating location of one of Ames' placer claims (Steamboat mining district/Carberry creek): http://plp2.org/forums/archive/index.php/t-126.html

An old goldmine and caves in the mountains between Jacksonville and Ruch (using back roads): 42°16'38.50"N 123° 3'34.67"W


#587
09-09-2013, 12:42 PM
Neptune
Registered User

Note to Lilibet: Thanks for the Sasquatch post on Google Earth! Such good information and, as you know, I am a huge Google Earth fan. I have not read the posts entirely yet, and maybe they mention this.... if you look at Google Earth from far up -- note changes in the topography. If you're looking at forests, search for clearings. If there is human activity, it is often evident in clearings. Tire marks (logging trucks, SUVs, dirt bikes). If you look beyond the clearings and into the woods and you see clear right-angles, these could be structures. It seemed to me that Lonnie had attempted to cover up his truck in branches, but aerial photos are still pretty good at revealing shapes in spite of the subterfuge.

In Lonnie's case, he knows placer mining. Placer claims are usually found near water, often the confluence of two streams. So if he "knows" areas, it may be areas near streams.

Here are the geopoints reposted again. I've included a new one in red. This is an RV trailer in the woods -- note the ventilation. Does it belong to Lonnie Ames, or is this the camp the media has photos of? I don't know. But, it is a trailer in the middle of woods. Note the dirt bike area near by -- a video created by Lonnie Ames has someone dirt biking in it. SO, any area that has circle 8s in it like someone riding around the same path a bajillion times is an area of interest to me. There are more areas in the hills North of Ruch, but this area is up the road from the LA known address at the mobile home park (Bolder City). I believe that address is used for POI to pick up mail.

Ruch Area:
Ruch Country Store (Jul 4 ~5pm) 42°14'23.67"N 123° 2'11.71"W
Magnolia Grill LLC 42°14'22.77"N 123° 2'14.14"W
Stephanie Warner's property 42°14'23.12"N 123° 4'21.14"W

Applegate Lake Region:
Bolder City Mobile Home Park 42° 6'2.43"N 123° 5'10.30"W
Nearest “community” to Applegate Lake

Applegate Forest Ranger District 42° 9'0.58"N 123° 3'33.28"W

Applegate Lake North End 42° 3'21.17"N 123° 6'54.70"W South End 42° 1'10.51"N 123° 9'34.98"W (Note: This is where the young men in the green truck with extra cab were going)

Applegate area, following Beaver Creek Road: RV in Woods 42° 6'9.43"N 122°59'13.59"W

Carberry Creek Campground 42° 1'30.51"N 123° 9'52.98"W

Steamboat Mining District (per Mapquest) aka “Steamboat Pocket” on Carberry Creek 42° 4'53.00"N 123°11'53.00"W Note: this info was likely obtained from almost 100-year old maps.

These areas appear to be well-traversed (possible logging activity, indicates access) 42° 4'54.35"N 123°11'46.70"W Access roads converge at 42° 4'53.53"N 123°11'41.78"W

Cell Structures in Ruch/Applegate Area (all owned by United States Cellular Corp) – only 3
Cell Tower 42°14'42.79"N 123° 2'33.86"W
Cell Tower 42°15'7.00"N 123°10'20.01"W
Cell Antenna 42° 7'13.36"N 123° 4'56.17"W

 

[Lilibet]

I don't know about Gas, but we did GPS Stephanie's last known whereabouts, starting from the parade route: we GPS'ed the Store she stopped at first (spoke with the owner who said LE had previously been there and watched taped footage), she also said she remembered Stephanie being at the store and that she did purchase some items, but couldn't recall what specific items were purchased, due to the fact the 4th was so busy. The owner stated she thought Stephanie had been there late in the afternoon, but she couldn't give me an exact time. We also GPS'd Steph's house, the Ruch store and several other locations we were told might be helpful in finding Stephanie.

Based on where the store was, Dicentra, what route were they taking back to Ruch? If we know that, we can see what side roads they might have taken. Was the store in Ashland, Talent, Phoenix or Medford? Can you be specific?

Do you know what time they left Ashland? I thought it was close to noonish when the parade was over. But that leaves a lot of time if they were at the store in the late afternoon. Could they have gone to see the new puppy where son and dil were living in Ashland at the time? Probably not likely if they were fighting.

And then we still have to account for the time the car started late at night and got home early in the morning (several hours?). I wish we had the start and stop times for that whole day. I don't know why that hasn't been made public.

 

[Lilibet]

A few days ago on this thread we were talking about a possible motive being that POI was trying to acquire Stephanie's property. When it first came to light in September that he was squatting there, just before he left, scmom and I had the following exchange on the first thread. It's so interesting how things we've discussed before circle back around again. IMO scmom nailed it!

Whether Stephanie's disappearance was premeditated or the impulsive result of a horrible argument gone very wrong, I still agree with scmom that POI's end game was to be able to live on that property one way or another for as long as possible. JMO

BBM and color by me

#564
09-06-2013, 08:23 PM
Lilibet

Quote:
Originally Posted by scmom
I think it may be easier to get them out of Stephanie's house since one of these squatters is a POI. I'm sure someone's end game here is to take Stephanie's property. Bold.

A chilling thought, and very bold, but this makes more sense as a motive than the radical political stuff IMO. I do think that his beliefs give a lot of insight into what he is capable of, but there would need to be a more tangible motive. I'm wondering if the argument July 4 was a break up that would cut him off from what he wanted. Follow the money...

 

[zwiebel]

I'm guessing the computer accident happened because:

Searches had been conducted on it for property law and/or missing people, declaration of death, etc - even crime and forensic sites.

Or

Someone was afraid of what might have been said in emails etc.

There are more than a few pleas for help out there, from people who have spilt coke or soda on their laptops. Seems that coke is one of the worst, so it's interesting coke was the beverage involved in Stephanie's particular accident. I wouldn't be surprised if there are searches for 'help I've spilled liquid on my laptop' on her computer too.

http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20110819193512AAyMYbt

I know we can't post what was said or anything, but did anybody manage to capture any interesting social media, before the inevitable deletions came? Especially any that talked about hunting, fishing, trailing, favored places, etc?

 

[for ashley]

I think you're right, Lilibet and scmom. A beautiful house on beautiful land, (land that could possibly make him some money) close enough to his camp, at no cost to him. The perfect place for him!
It is my understanding that POI and Steph went through lots of ups and downs and he just kept coming back with his tail between his legs and her kind heart would take him back in. But maybe this time was the last, maybe she was done with him, for good! It also seems like the entire situation with son, dil, POI, and Steph was extremely volatile. Those 4 were not a good combination.
Also, just curious, is he getting government assistance? Wouldn't surprise me but it would show his true colors, using whatever means necessary to benefit himself even that which he hates! Sickens me, all of it!!

Thanks to everyone here, big hugs!!
WHO DAT!! (had to add that in, it's been 2 weeks, I'm needing some Saints football! Stephanie would love it!)