GUILTY OR - Whitney Heichel, 21, Gresham, 16 Oct 2012 #5

[westsidefox64]

JoeFriday would there be a chance you could get pictures of the front seats console area windshield and floor boards of the vehicle? Im sorry to ask but I dont know anyone with this make and model of car. Your pictures have really helped me get a visual TIA

 

[Xavier]

I can't get my head around why, how Holt goes from casual obsessor, love/crush, to pervert/stalker, to enraged brutal killer of Whitney...Here are my Theories, all thoughts welcomed...As far as we know Holt had no "serious" criminal record. He was, according to a friend, ""high school football star and could've had any woman he wanted"...It sounds like Holt had a "big ego" and maybe thought of himself as "God's Gift to Women" so to speak.

#1 Holt simply "snapped". He had obvious, documented situations of mental breakdowns, etc and he needed that "sense of conquering his obessesion of Whitney" because maybe his recent marital romance was non existent and he needed to satisfy his sex urges. Then Whitney resisted Holt's advances and Holt "lost his cool, mind" and shot her.

#2 Holt's marriage has been noted by posters as having some problems. Maybe, Holt's wife was ignoring him, maybe the loss of the needed affection he craved. Add to this, maybe Whitney started to sense Holt's obsessions and "backed away" from Holt and ignored him. So the two closest women in Holt's life are "backing off and away from him". So Holt, who believed Whitney maybe "liked" him as a casual friend and he adored her, now he sees her ignoring him and he goes ballistic.

#3 Maybe Whitney had some "dirt" on Holt per his , child , possibly even pedofile rumors. Whitney, Holt belonged to same residential complex, same church, they likely saw each other around the neighborhood often. So Whitney avoids, ignores Holt and Holt suspects Whitney knowing Holt's "secrets". Holt does'nt want any more rumors spreading or his wife knowing his secrets, so he murders Whitney to keep his "secrets" hushed. Holt's twisted mind now looks at Whitney as evil, it torments him and all the romantic fantasies of Whitney that he had before, now turn into a hatred, disgust of her. Whitney's possible knowledge of Holt's "secrets" made Holt into a monster. He could'nt stomach her thinking of him as a perverted, sick guy with real, degrading issues.<modsnip> http://www.watchtowerlies.com/watchtowerlies_022.htm

 

[PoirotryInMotion]

That would be true UNLESS the body was there first, and then the back seats lowered. The seats wouldn't be able to slide as far forward if that was the case.

Then there was a gap, so he put some of the linens and the cargo cover/carpet on top of the folded down back seats. That would keep anything on the floor hidden.

Thinking about this in so much detail is making me feel ill.

This makes excellent sense (those pictures really helped, Joe Friday--thank you again for taking the time to photograph them). It's possible she slumped over in the front seat when first shot (accounting for the long red drip down the console area/driver's seat belt receptacle)...but then I think she was likely moved pretty quickly to a somewhat stable position on the floor of the back seat, where most of the bleeding then happened. If I were a killer gassing up with a broken window at a couple gas stations, I'd prefer to try to hide a victim this way--with the seats sliding forward and lowered over her to the extent possible then covering the remainder of the crack with the linens. Less noticeable than trying to hide a body on top of the folded down seats, covered with linens.

 

[Xavier]

<modsnipped>

My heart goes out to all of the victims in this case...Whitney, Clint,, Amanda and their friends and families and yes even the Judd's who most likely saw things that day that will give them nightmares for years to come, I can't even imagine looking for my friend and finding her bloodied SUV and then inadvertently picking up her killer.

<modsnipped>

This is so true, thanks for the comments...

 

[Joe Friday]

I can't get my head around why, how Holt goes from casual obsessor, love/crush, to pervert/stalker, to enraged brutal killer of Whitney...Here are my Theories, all thoughts welcomed...As far as we know Holt had no "serious" criminal record. He was, according to a friend, ""high school football star and could've had any woman he wanted"...It sounds like Holt had a "big ego" and maybe thought of himself as "God's Gift to Women" so to speak.

#1 Holt simply "snapped". He had obvious, documented situations of mental breakdowns, etc and he needed that "sense of conquering his obessesion of Whitney" because maybe his recent marital romance was non existent and he needed to satisfy his sex urges. Then Whitney resisted Holt's advances and Holt "lost his cool, mind" and shot her.

#2 Holt's marriage has been noted by posters as having some problems. Maybe, Holt's wife was ignoring him, maybe the loss of the needed affection he craved. Add to this, maybe Whitney started to sense Holt's obsessions and "backed away" from Holt and ignored him. So the two closest women in Holt's life are "backing off and away from him". So Holt, who believed Whitney maybe "liked" him as a casual friend and he adored her, now he sees her ignoring him and he goes ballistic.

#3 Maybe Whitney had some "dirt" on Holt per his , child , possibly even pedofile rumors. Whitney, Holt belonged to same residential complex, same church, they likely saw each other around the neighborhood often. So Whitney avoids, ignores Holt and Holt suspects Whitney knowing Holt's "secrets". Holt does'nt want any more rumors spreading or his wife knowing his secrets, so he murders Whitney to keep his "secrets" hushed. Holt's twisted mind now looks at Whitney as evil, it torments him and all the romantic fantasies of Whitney that he had before, now turn into a hatred, disgust of her. Whitney's possible knowledge of Holt's "secrets" made Holt into a monster. He could'nt stomach her thinking of him as a perverted, sick guy with real, degrading issues. <modsnip>

For #2: If Whitney was avoiding him or backing away I doubt she would have given JH a ride if it all went down according to JH. He could have very well forced her into the vehicle at gun point too. I guess we will never know.

For #3: If he was planning on murdering her because she had some dirt on him, I would think he would have driven to a remote location and made her walk off into the woods somewhere and shot her there. No mess, no lugging or dragging a body out of the vehicle and who knows how far off the road.

JMO

 

[PoirotryInMotion]

Originally Posted by PoirotryInMotion View Post
I think it's rather an unusual coincidence that the Judds:

found/reported the van,
picked him up near that Shell station
also live in Troutdale

They live (on 10th at Beaverdale) in close proximity to where the cell phone was dropped at the Troutdale apts; also near the Walmart and the gas station.

's very suspicious how the Judds were right around all of the places where Holt was. Something fishy could be going on with a connection between Holt & Judds.

I think it's odd. Not 'accusing' anyone by noticing this coincidence, but it's something that would make me want to dig a little deeper in looking at this case. JMO

BTW, I was going off of memory on the addy--it's 10th at SE Beaver Crk Ln., not 'Beaverdale.'

 

[Xavier]

Yeah...I was first thinking that the shot was fired from inside the car. But I've since been considering that perhaps Whitney outsmarted her assailant for a bit, and locked him out. Because it's extremely difficult to break a car window. (I bought special tools for this for family cars one year for Christmas gifts after reading how hard it'd be if trapped in a vehicle.)

I then started thinking, well, a bullet could start the break-web that forms in safety glass, and then the window could be punched out. Here's a thought about the bullet casings...say the gun was pressed up against the glass of the window, then fired. Gun experts out there--any chance that casing would end up inside the car??

Hard to say really, why would Holt get out of the SUV at Dodge Park anyway?

LE, to my knowledge, has said they found only 4 bullet casings and all were under Holt's driver seat floor. So assume all the shooting was done in the SUV at very close range. I makes me cringe that he shot her 4 times. That's a red flag of someone incredibly deranged, angry, ballistic. It sounds more like a "hate crime" and I'm wondering how did Holt go from having romantic fantasies of Whitney to wanting to explode and shoot her 4 times.

 

[Xavier]

Yeah...I was first thinking that the shot was fired from inside the car. But I've since been considering that perhaps Whitney outsmarted her assailant for a bit, and locked him out. Because it's extremely difficult to break a car window. (I bought special tools for this for family cars one year for Christmas gifts after reading how hard it'd be if trapped in a vehicle.)

I then started thinking, well, a bullet could start the break-web that forms in safety glass, and then the window could be punched out. Here's a thought about the bullet casings...say the gun was pressed up against the glass of the window, then fired. Gun experts out there--any chance that casing would end up inside the car??

PoirotryInMotion----- to my knowledge, LE never found bullet casings at Dodge Park. All 4 casings were right under the driver side floor. So it rules out in my mind, that Holt shot Whitney outside of the SUV.

 

[Xavier]

I think it's odd. Not 'accusing' anyone by noticing this coincidence, but it's something that would make me want to dig a little deeper in looking at this case. JMO

BTW, I was going off of memory on the addy--it's 10th at SE Beaver Crk Ln., not 'Beaverdale.'

It is a little unusual to see the Judds show up at all the obvious "right" places in this case, search for Whitney. Not saying or implicating the Judds, but it just sounds unusual, especially in such a short time frame in a rather large area to cover.

 

[PoirotryInMotion]

Sasquatch, thanks so much for that video post showing the 9mm shooting and casings. I strained to see the casings, but had a little difficulty actually seeing them.

But then I found this 2005 article, and I guess where casings land are now determined to be highly unpredictable. After a study in LA involving officers shooting various weapons using various hand positions, the study concluded it's pretty random. (The study was also used to successfully defend a federal agent against a charge of intentional murder.)

Findings are now firm: Ejected shell casings can't reliably tell much about a shooter's location (June 27, 2005)

“Nearly 8,000 rounds fired by Los Angeles County (CA) sheriff’s deputies have now conclusively proved what the Force Science Research Center first asserted more than 2 years ago: The single greatest influence on where spent shell casings land when ejected from a semiautomatic handgun is how the pistol is physically manipulated by the shooter, not any rigid, intrinsic mechanical factor.”

<snipped>

“With each type of gun, shells landed at varying distances to the shooter’s right rear, 90 degrees to his right, directly in front of him, 90 degrees to his left and to his left rear--in short, everywhere! In some cases, even with the same gun held in the identical position by the same shooter, the places to which spent shells were ejected were as much as 10 feet apart. That’s with grip, ammo, everything the same.”

http://www.policeone.com/columnists...reliably-tell-much-about-a-shooters-location/

But I still have a question (for those who are more familiar with guns than I)...IF a 9mm (or other) gun was held against a car window and fired, is it possible that the casing from that shot could end up in the car?

 

[caffeinejean]

I personally applaud the Judd's for becoming so involved to help find their friend. I imagine that because they live, probably work and go to school in the area and knew the Heichels, they were first to start looking after the calls went out. They were very instrumental to the search because of their knowledge of that end of Gresham, Fairview, and Troutdale (geographically speaking these communities have very blurred lines). We must remember that most of everything that was reported by the Judd's was from Day one when they were very dedicated to helping and very vested in time. It was probably very hard for them to go home and forget about it.

 

[Xavier]

Anyone keeping up on this tragedy, here's a recent link and an attendees comments to the outpouring of the people in Whitney's life.....it was mentioned over 3,000 attended her services and WalMart donated 4000 sandwhiches, Starbucks donated beverages... http://first-thoughts.org/on/Whitney+Heichel/

""I was able to attend the Memorial/Open house for Whitney Heichel. I have never been to anything quite like it. The entire family(Clint, parents, grand parents, sisters, aunts, uncles, and cousins) and congregation members stood for 6 hours and hugged every guest. All 3,000! The branch assigned the DO to the congo for two weeks to help encourage and deal with the media. There were literature displays and refreshments provided for all in a huge tent set up in the parking lot. Starbucks provided the beverages and the owner of the Gresham Walmart donated 4,000 sandwiches. A local florist flew in and donated gorgeous tropical flower arrangements from Hawaii. Whitney's mom said they have had so many wonderful experiences come from all this. Mom also said Whitney loved to sleep and is sleeping in the coziest place of all, Jehovah's memory. The local police force and Starbucks employees were all invited to attend the Memorial talk to be held the next day. For many it is the first time they have ever been ...""

 

[Xavier]

For #2: If Whitney was avoiding him or backing away I doubt she would have given JH a ride if it all went down according to JH. He could have very well forced her into the vehicle at gun point too. I guess we will never know.

For #3: If he was planning on murdering her because she had some dirt on him, I would think he would have driven to a remote location and made her walk off into the woods somewhere and shot her there. No mess, no lugging or dragging a body out of the vehicle and who knows how far off the road.

JMO

Joe Friday----Maybe he did'nt want to risk some one seeing or hearing him shoot WH, so he shot her in the SUV, where sounds are "muffled"...Anyways, just a thought....
I agree with you, Holt probably forced Whitney into the SUV and was doing the driving because he "controls" the direction they go. Holt was all about controlling her. If Whitney was driving, she had control. She could've stopped off in a public area, jumped out of the car and ran for her life for help. I wish LE would bring out more clues in an official story report.
Thanks for the reply.

 

[Xavier]

I personally applaud the Judd's for becoming so involved to help find their friend. I imagine that because they live, probably work and go to school in the area and knew the Heichels, they were first to start looking after the calls went out. They were very instrumental to the search because of their knowledge of that end of Gresham, Fairview, and Troutdale (geographically speaking these communities have very blurred lines). We must remember that most of everything that was reported by the Judd's was from Day one when they were very dedicated to helping and very vested in time. It was probably very hard for them to go home and forget about it.

I think everyone is speculating....that's all. but, your right about the community help. This recent comment and link shows the community donated over $12,000 to the Heichel family..

Link: http://first-thoughts.org/on/Whitney+Heichel/

""Thank you so much to everyone who came in yesterday to show your love and support for Whitney's family. The response from the community has been amazing, and I am so proud to be a part of it. Thanks to your support, the 7 stands in Gresham and SE Portland will be donating a total of $10,445.50 from our sales yesterday. In addition, we collected $2,369.58 in additional donations from this amazing community. That brings our total contribution to their family to $12,815.08! My thanks not only to all the customers who came in and made this day such a success, but to our employees who worked so hard yesterday, and did such a great job. You all make me very proud.""

 

[PoirotryInMotion]

PoirotryInMotion----- to my knowledge, LE never found bullet casings at Dodge Park. All 4 casings were right under the driver side floor. So it rules out in my mind, that Holt shot Whitney outside of the SUV.

IF that means he only shot the gun four times, and shot her in the car...I have to wonder (given the extremely tight time frame that I think IndyAnna posted about)...why drive all the way to Dodge Park and Roslyn Lake to kill her in remote area but IN THE CAR...only to drive back to rush-hour traffic in Troutdale to fill up the car everyone's looking for and then backtrack back up into Larch MT.?

Why not hide the body down at Roslyn Lake area, drive the car north and maybe west a bit, and catch a bus back to Gresham?

In other words, why was it so necessary to hide the body on Larch Mt. that the killer would risk gassing up two or three times to do so?

 

[PoirotryInMotion]

And maybe the biggest question of all (for me):

After all this planning, and evidence distribution on Tuesday--

Why would the killer "volunteer to be interviewed" by LE the very next day, as well as on Thursday and Friday...as well as voluntarily submitting to DNA & fingerprint testing on Thursday while he still has no legal representation?

Please don't tell me it's because he's stupid. This is your basic human self-protection instinct I'm thinking about.

 

[La Louve]

IF that means he only shot the gun four times, and shot her in the car...I have to wonder (given the extremely tight time frame that I think IndyAnna posted about)...why drive all the way to Dodge Park and Roslyn Lake to kill her in remote area but IN THE CAR...only to drive back to rush-hour traffic in Troutdale to fill up the car everyone's looking for and then backtrack back up into Larch MT.?

Why not hide the body down at Roslyn Lake area, drive the car north and maybe west a bit, and catch a bus back to Gresham?

In other words, why was it so necessary to hide the body on Larch Mt. that the killer would risk gassing up two or three times to do so?

Except that Clint didn't report Whitney missing to the police until around 10 a.m. and the gas station stops occurred between 9 and 930 a.m. So no one was looking for her SUV at the time of the gas stops. (ETA: well, the authorities weren't looking for her)

Also if Holt had Whitney drive straight to Dodge Park at the time of the abduction, they would have been out there by 7:30 at the latest. The affidavit seems to suggest Whitney was shot at 8:40. So they could have been out there for over an hour before he killed her.

I wonder if Whitney tried to save herself with words. She seems like she was very dedicated in her faith and could possibly have tried to show Holt compassion. Perhaps she was talking the whole time, reassuring him that he was still God's child and this could still turn out okay. Perhaps she had some inkling of whatever his inner torment was/is and thought she could show him some grace and compassion and save both of them. And maybe that's what enraged him even more, to the point of shooting her.

Poor Whitney, what a waste of a beautiful soul's life.

 

[westsidefox64]

Im going back to reread the PDF files and to study joefridays pictures some more, but before I do that im wondering if anyone knows why he wasnt charged with premeditation. He apparently thought about it enough to know he was going to abduct her to be out there at that early hour and to have the gun in his posession when he went out.

 

[Quester]

And maybe the biggest question of all (for me):

After all this planning, and evidence distribution on Tuesday--

Why would the killer "volunteer to be interviewed" by LE the very next day, as well as on Thursday and Friday...as well as voluntarily submitting to DNA & fingerprint testing on Thursday while he still has no legal representation?

Please don't tell me it's because he's stupid. This is your basic human self-protection instinct I'm thinking about.

I can only imagine the perp believed he had thought through and executed everything as planned; his I-was-robbed-story was going to be believed; and, he had hidden the body far enough away from the murder site and remote enough so as not to be found for quite some time, or at least he may have thought. He may have also been hoping/banking on the sympathy of I-was-a-victim-of-those-evil-&#8220;robbers&#8221;-too. JMHO.

In any case, it will be very interesting to read/hear/see those three LE interviews of the perp, if/when made public.

 

[PoirotryInMotion]

Except that Clint didn't report Whitney missing to the police until around 10 a.m. and the gas station stops occurred between 9 and 930 a.m. So no one was looking for her SUV at the time of the gas stops. (ETA: well, the authorities weren't looking for her)

Also if Holt had Whitney drive straight to Dodge Park at the time of the abduction, they would have been out there by 7:30 at the latest. The affidavit seems to suggest Whitney was shot at 8:40. So they could have been out there for over an hour before he killed her.

I wonder if Whitney tried to save herself with words. She seems like she was very dedicated in her faith and could possibly have tried to show Holt compassion. Perhaps she was talking the whole time, reassuring him that he was still God's child and this could still turn out okay. Perhaps she had some inkling of whatever his inner torment was/is and thought she could show him some grace and compassion and save both of them. And maybe that's what enraged him even more, to the point of shooting her.

Poor Whitney, what a waste of a beautiful soul's life.

Whitney, from all that I've read, seemed to be an especially beautiful soul; which I guess is why this case bothers so many of us.

Good point about the bolo not being out yet about the car; very close timing, actually. Only Clint was out driving around searching for her car before the official call in at 9:56. And gas station video shows car arriving for gas at 9:14.