Othram - General Discussion - #3

[dotr]

Hey Dear, the link you attached here is not working properly, do you have another link?

It works just fine for me..

Identified! Thread 'FL - Pensacola, WhtMale, 25-45 - Lion, Cross with Halo and "ex-con" tattoos- UP103127- March 8, 1989 - Charles E. Collier'

May 16, 2023

The National Missing and Unidentified Persons System (NamUs)

0 Missing Person Exclusions


Estimated Year of Death 1988-1989
Estimated PMI 2 Months

Height 5' 9"(69 inches) , Estimated

Circumstances of Recovery- Unidentified white male found extremely decomposed and partially skeletonized. Located in a thicket between an abandoned building and refrigerator-freezer trailer on Palafox street. Believed to be a transient. Believed to have been deceased 2-4 months at the time of discovery.

Distinctive Physical Features​

Tattoo
Lion on lower anterior sternum, Cross with Halo over...

• PatLaurel
• Replies: 12
• Forum: Identified!

• 

 

[friendlysleuther]

Curious to know— @othram , if our DNA helps to identify someone.. Would we be notified of it?

Thank you!

 

[othram]

Curious to know— @othram , if our DNA helps to identify someone.. Would we be notified of it?

Thank you!

We don't notify people that they are related to an unknown person. It would take some reworking of our consent and terms of service to do that and we need to consider privacy as it pertains to the case.

Curious how many folks would want to know?

 

[othram]

Othram previously assisted the DeKalb County District Attorney's Office in identifying the suspect in a 1990 double-homicide and sexual assault. Today he was found guilty on all charges.

The 1990 Killer of John & Pamela Sumpter is Arrested

DeKalb County District Attorney's Office Teams with Othram to Identify the Suspect in a 1990 Double-Homicide and Sexual Assault

dnasolves.com

 

[iamshadow21]

Othram previously assisted the DeKalb County District Attorney's Office in identifying the suspect in a 1990 double-homicide and sexual assault. Today he was found guilty on all charges.

The 1990 Killer of John & Pamela Sumpter is Arrested

DeKalb County District Attorney's Office Teams with Othram to Identify the Suspect in a 1990 Double-Homicide and Sexual Assault

dnasolves.com

Their thread: GA - GA- Pamela Sumpter, SA/stabbed,& brother,John Sumpter, fatally stabbed @ apt., Stone Mountain, July '90, DNA ID. suspect - Kenneth Perry, 55, 2024

 

[friendlysleuther]

We don't notify people that they are related to an unknown person. It would take some reworking of our consent and terms of service to do that and we need to consider privacy as it pertains to the case.

Curious how many folks would want to know?

I would love to know, even if it was just a simple.. “You helped us!” After x amount of time of solving a case, and even if I wasn’t told who it was. Would just feel good to know I was able to help somehow

 

[iamshadow21]

I would love to know, even if it was just a simple.. “You helped us!” After x amount of time of solving a case, and even if I wasn’t told who it was. Would just feel good to know I was able to help somehow

The problem with that kind of validation (outside the privacy concerns) is that it could lead to discouragement in people who need it if they don't receive it.

If people just contribute with the understanding that they will never know what part their contribution played, if any, in identification, then they won't feel that drop if they don't get a notification. It'll just be normal, and they can hope they played a part.

MOO

 

[othram]

I would love to know, even if it was just a simple.. “You helped us!” After x amount of time of solving a case, and even if I wasn’t told who it was. Would just feel good to know I was able to help somehow

Fair point. We will pass the feedback to the team and think through how we can bring some visibility to this!

 

[othram]

The problem with that kind of validation (outside the privacy concerns) is that it could lead to discouragement in people who need it if they don't receive it.

If people just contribute with the understanding that they will never know what part their contribution played, if any, in identification, then they won't feel that drop if they don't get a notification. It'll just be normal, and they can hope they played a part.

MOO

Good points as well. Lots to think about here. Perhaps there is a middle ground where we can consider how to report impact of participation (perhaps in aggregate).

 

[iamshadow21]

Good points as well. Lots to think about here. Perhaps there is a middle ground where we can consider how to report impact of participation (perhaps in aggregate).

Like, an announcement that 'DNA from a hundred and six people of our pool of donors helped us solve this!' is fine, that's making the group as a whole feel they helped. But individual notifications... It's an iffy place to go.

So much of charity and such churns these days on people expecting something back. Like, they've bought in, so where's their reward? And I think that if people expect that kind of individual validation, then the chance of discouragement is there, and you might get people pulling out, looking for another thing that gives them that boost. Keeping it general is safer, IMO.

MOO

 

[sasha17]

We don't notify people that they are related to an unknown person. It would take some reworking of our consent and terms of service to do that and we need to consider privacy as it pertains to the case.

Curious how many folks would want to know?

I donate blood and will often get an email from the blood bank telling me which hospital received my blood for a patient. They don't tell me the patient's name or anything that would violate patient privacy. But I LOVE those emails, and seeing where my blood went. Similarly, I think folks would love to know their DNA was used to help solve a case, even if you weren't able to say exactly which case it was used for.

 

[musicaljoke]

Like, an announcement that 'DNA from a hundred and six people of our pool of donors helped us solve this!' is fine, that's making the group as a whole feel they helped. But individual notifications... It's an iffy place to go.

So much of charity and such churns these days on people expecting something back. Like, they've bought in, so where's their reward? And I think that if people expect that kind of individual validation, then the chance of discouragement is there, and you might get people pulling out, looking for another thing that gives them that boost. Keeping it general is safer, IMO.

MOO

Indeed. Also, it might not always be welcomed news. A message thanking someone for their contribution which lead to an arrest and conviction could be traumatic. Can you imagine discovering that you had a previously unknown relative perhaps a father, who is proven to be a murderer?

 

[Caring1]

Imagine a family member suspecting another family member of rape or murder of someone or more than one person but remain silent because they can’t be certain. The knowledge that your DNA led to that certainty would empower someone to speak up and notify authorities of names of possible victims. Kind of like a “we all suspected”. I feel it would lead to more cold case solves.

 

[othram]

Previously Othram assisted the Alberta RCMP & Calgary Police Service in identifying the suspect in the 1976 murder of 16-year-old Pauline Brazeau. Last week the suspect pled guilty.

After 47 years, Pauline Breazeau’s Killer is Identified

The Alberta RCMP Leverages Othram's Genetic Testing Platform to Solve the 1976 Murder of Pauline Brazeau

dnasolves.com

 

[dotr]

Previously Othram assisted the Alberta RCMP & Calgary Police Service in identifying the suspect in the 1976 murder of 16-year-old Pauline Brazeau. Last week the suspect pled guilty.

After 47 years, Pauline Breazeau’s Killer is Identified

The Alberta RCMP Leverages Othram's Genetic Testing Platform to Solve the 1976 Murder of Pauline Brazeau

dnasolves.com

D

CANADA Post in thread 'Canada - Pauline Elizabeth BRAZEAU, 16, sexually assaulted & stabbed, Calgary, Alberta, 9 Jan 1976'

Mar 4, 2025

'I was a drunken young man': Cold case killer admits to fatally stabbing teen girl 49 years ago

A 49-year-old cold case homicide was put to rest inside a Calgary courtroom on Monday with both the killer and his teenage victim's daughter — who was just seven months old at the time of her mother's death — speaking publicly for the first time since murder charges were announced. Originally...

ca.news.yahoo.com

March 3 2025
''A 49-year-old cold case homicide was put to rest inside a Calgary courtroom on Monday with both the killer and his teenage victim's daughter — who was just seven months old at the time of her mother's death — speaking publicly for the first time since murder charges were announced.

Originally charged with murder, Ronald James Edwards, now 75 years old, pleaded guilty to manslaughter in the fatal stabbing of Pauline Brazeau, a 16-year-old who was killed in 1976.''

''By the mid-1990s, police had a DNA...

• dotr

• 

 

[othram]

Honored that Othram could assist Monroe County Sheriff's Office in identifying a 1986 homicide victim as Shaun Daniel Brauner. Grateful to RTI, NamUs, and the NIJ for funding the casework.

After 37 years, Monroe County John Doe (1986) is identified

Monroe County Sheriff's Office Teams with Othram to Identify a 1986 Homicide Victim

dnasolves.com

 

[Caring1]

Honored that Othram could assist Monroe County Sheriff's Office in identifying a 1986 homicide victim as Shaun Daniel Brauner. Grateful to RTI, NamUs, and the NIJ for funding the casework.

After 37 years, Monroe County John Doe (1986) is identified

Monroe County Sheriff's Office Teams with Othram to Identify a 1986 Homicide Victim

dnasolves.com

MI Post in thread 'MI - Ida Twp, WhtMale 25-45, UP8379, massive head injuries, muscular, overbite, dental work, Oct'86'

Mar 21, 2020

NamUs UP8379

Date Body Found: October 17, 1986
Location Found: Ida Township, Monroe County, Michigan
Inventory of Remains: All parts recovered
Condition of Remains: Not recognizable - Near complete or complete skeleton
Sex: Male
Race / Ethnicity: White / Caucasian
Estimated Age Group: Adult - Pre 50
Estimated Age Range (Years): 25-45
Estimated Year of Death: 1986
Estimated PMI: 3 Months
Estimated Height: 5' 9" (69 inches)
Weight: Cannot...

• MadMcGoo

• 

 

[friendlysleuther]

The problem with that kind of validation (outside the privacy concerns) is that it could lead to discouragement in people who need it if they don't receive it.

If people just contribute with the understanding that they will never know what part their contribution played, if any, in identification, then they won't feel that drop if they don't get a notification. It'll just be normal, and they can hope they played a part.

MOO

Eh, I don’t know. Personally, I’m doing it to help—I don’t need extra validation. But if my DNA actually helps solve a case, I’d love to know!

I also think transparency like this could benefit @othram as a whole.
If people knew their contributions made a difference, they’d be more likely to share their experience on social media, which would encourage even more participation & support.
Which. = Identifying More of The Unidentified

You could additionally give users the option to opt-in or opt-out to the notification process.
Additionally, for any cases that have active law-enforcement investigations — I wouldn’t expect to be notified during this process.

 

[friendlysleuther]

Indeed. Also, it might not always be welcomed news. A message thanking someone for their contribution which lead to an arrest and conviction could be traumatic. Can you imagine discovering that you had a previously unknown relative perhaps a father, who is proven to be a murderer?

I get the concern, but that scenario really doesn’t make sense.

If Othram were to notify people when their DNA helped solve a case, it wouldn’t mean they’re suddenly finding out a relative was a murderer. Othram focuses on identifying unknown remains.

They wouldn’t send a notification like: ”Your DNA helped identify your father, who turned out to be a murderer!”

If someone submits their DNA to Othram, they’re likely already in databases like GEDmatch, Ancestry, or 23andMe, which are more direct ways to discover unexpected biological connections. If a relative (like a father) had a criminal past, a match in those databases would be the more likely way to uncover that, not through a notification from Othram .

And even if an unidentified person turned out to be someone’s father, how would Othram (or anyone) suddenly be like, ‘Oh yeah, he was a murderer’? If he’s been unidentified this whole time, nobody would even know what he did until an actual investigation took place.

For this to even be plausible, so many unlikely things would have to align—it’s just not realistic.

Even then.. I don’t think an Otrham notification would be the only way you find out if someone in your family was charged with murder..

 

[MarziPanda]

I get the concern, but that scenario really doesn’t make sense.

If Othram were to notify people when their DNA helped solve a case, it wouldn’t mean they’re suddenly finding out a relative was a murderer. Othram focuses on identifying unknown remains.

They wouldn’t send a notification like: ”Your DNA helped identify your father, who turned out to be a murderer!”

If someone submits their DNA to Othram, they’re likely already in databases like GEDmatch, Ancestry, or 23andMe, which are more direct ways to discover unexpected biological connections. If a relative (like a father) had a criminal past, a match in those databases would be the more likely way to uncover that, not through a notification from Othram .

And even if an unidentified person turned out to be someone’s father, how would Othram (or anyone) suddenly be like, ‘Oh yeah, he was a murderer’? If he’s been unidentified this whole time, nobody would even know what he did until an actual investigation took place.

For this to even be plausible, so many unlikely things would have to align—it’s just not realistic.

Even then.. I don’t think an Otrham notification would be the only way you find out if someone in your family was charged with murder..

Othram mostly does focus on John/Jane Does, but they do also identify suspects (using the same techniques, just on the DNA of the suspect). There are several recent posts in this thread where their identified suspects have pleaded guilty. Ancestry/23andMe aren't used for genetic genealogy, and it's possible there are lots of people who uploaded to GEDmatch (which Othram does use) and ticked yes to LE matching without really knowing what that meant.

I'd say it might be a good idea when Othram are identifying Does, but not when they're identifying suspects.