Recovered/Located PA - A.Y., 16, Allentown, 5 March 2018 *Arrest*

[GraceG]

IANAL - but take a look at the federal "Mann Act" - interpret as you will -- maybe someone familiar with the Act could explain. Dunno if it could apply to Esterly or not



https://www.justice.gov/usam/criminal-resource-manual-2027-mann-act

The intent of the Mann act was for human trafficking for prostitution though it has been used for charges of consensual sex in its early days. However, if the individual transported for sexual purposes is below 18 years also, it will constitute an offense and the intention or consent of the person transported is immaterial for constituting an offense.

 

[Irishboy]

I quoted it somewhere in this thread -- the age of consent is 18, EXCEPT when both parties are 16 or 17 y/o.

Here it is:


https://www.ageofconsent.net/states/pennsylvania

Federal law applies when they cross state lines and the minor is under the age of 18.
(IMO - getting real tired people don't know this, been posted many time in this and other forums)

 

[Irishboy]

A. stole from her mom but she won’t be charged. She’s a victim of a crime. She was manipulated and exploited for sexual gains. Her mom will not press charges, she just wants her back home safely. Same with LE.

The exact evidence that sex occurred will not be released. From what we know the facts strongly allude to a sexual relationship:

1. KE signed her out of school 10 times. Where did they go? I doubt it was just for ice cream and innocent fun. People know them around town, they were likely not in the public eye.

2. The mother found “inappropriate” messages from KE.

3. AY’s brother said in the interview that the fight with KE SE on their property was about SE accusing KE AY of having sex. What does SE know besides him hiding the fact he signed AY out of school? Hotel purchases? SE knows something more?

This disgusting perv does not deserve freedom IMO.


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I disagree that she can't be charged and she is a total victim. She stole money and jewelry. Depends on the DA and if the mom will press charges, but LE will have grounds to hold her as a felon, But yes her defense will argue she was coerced IMO.

ETA she could argue at trial he took the money and jewelry but she would have at least pointed out where it was.

 

[always reading]

I guess I'm the only broke single parent. I wouldn't have $10,000 to spare whether it was cash, in the back, stocks and bonds or elsewhere.

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[GraceG]

So why did it get elevated to an Amber Alert?
I was terrified when I saw that change thinking they had found a suicide pact or a plan to kill her or traffic her or something.
Are the criteria just different in Mexico? Or did some new information come up that we've missed?

If the child is under 17 and LE has enough information to believe that an immediate broadcast to the public will enhance the efforts of law enforcement to locate the child and apprehend the suspect they can issue the alert. In my opinion, just traveling to Mexico has within it enough risk to A. to warrant the warning. I flew as a corporate pilot for a large US manufacturer before going into law enforcement. We would NEVER spend the night in Mexico but would drop off the CEO in the cities where he had a couple of manufacturing facilities and then fly back over the border, into California or Texas and then go pick him up when he was ready to go back. As a female with bright red hair with a copilot that was a young blond male, we didn't exactly blend in. It was too dangerous to spend the night in everyone's opinion and my boss hired a Mexican security firm with drivers and armed protection that provided such services to Fortune 500 companies traveling to Mexico.

 

[Irishboy]

Your confusing this. Federal consent under the laws of prostitution 18, but laws of consent of the state she came from are different. Also, there is no evidence that sex occurred in Texas, and not that it would nessesaraly matter. Like prairiewind said. The case is week at best.

Your'e ignoring the rules of evidence., the same thinking that let Casey Anthony off.
If you wake up in the morning and the ground and grass and cars are wet you can deduce that it rained overnight even if you didn't see it.
I'm sure they didn't video anything.

ETA - Federal law will prevail. Cummins is first going on trial in Federal court for the Mann act vioaltions. The state of TN will be next, and I believe California was also to file charges. He could be charged in any state they traveled through (Missouri, Colorado) though they may not bother. He is now 51 years old awaiting trial. For Federal he likely be convicted and sentenced to a 10 year minimum, or more. Then the state trails start. He likely will spend the rest of his natural life behind bars.

 

[Irishboy]

Good thought! I agree with you on passbook (my kids still have passbooks for their bank accounts). Also, culturally speaking, many Asian people (especially older and newer immigrants) have a strong distrust of banks. It is not unreasonable to have that much money in cash.


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If this true then IMO they spent a good amount of time in the morning visiting banks, withdrawing the savings and then him taking the money from the wife's account before getting rid of the car and catching the plane.

 

[Lk86]

I may be wrong but do I recall that AL had some issues at the airport bc they wanted to see her birth certificate? Would that mean she was tryIng to use her Mom’s passport?

I can’t remember but I thought someone mentioned that when they were trying to check in. The person behind them (in line).
I thought it was odd they would need birth certificate for her to fly. It would make sense though if a) she was using her passport and was trying to fly outta country and is below 18 or b) trying to use someone else’s passport and it’s obvious it’s not her

 

[PrairieWind]

Federal law applies when they cross state lines and the minor is under the age of 18.
(IMO - getting real tired people don't know this, been posted many time in this and other forums)

Your'e ignoring the rules of evidence., the same thinking that let Casey Anthony off.
If you wake up in the morning and the ground and grass and cars are wet you can deduce that it rained overnight even if you didn't see it.
I'm sure they didn't video anything.

ETA - Federal law will prevail. Cummins is first going on trial in Federal court for the Mann act vioaltions. The state of TN will be next, and I believe California was also to file charges. He could be charged in any state they traveled through (Missouri, Colorado) though they may not bother. He is now 51 years old awaiting trial. For Federal he likely be convicted and sentenced to a 10 year minimum, or more. Then the state trails start. He likely will spend the rest of his natural life behind bars.

Some of the initial news articles incorrectly stated age of consent in Penn was 16. I fell for those myself at first. I think people may still be seeing those. It will be relevant later as to whether additional state charges are filed.

As for the federal issue, its a matter of probably cause at this point. Simply taking the girl across state lines does not in and of itself constitute a federal crime. It must be done for the purpose of facilitating illegal sexual activity. While we all probably assume that there is a sexual relationship, the feds cannot charge that until they have actual evidence of it. Cummins was able to be charged be after he was caught he admitted to investigators that they had had sex several times in various locations. Something similar will probably happen here, but I doubt we see a federal indictment until after they are located. And they WILL be located, that is just a matter of time. Obviously since an amber alert was issued in Mexico, they believe that they have crossed over. Although the ABC article this morning about the Amber Alert still said they were believed to be in the red car.

 

[KaaBoom]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but am I the only one tho thinks that A. committed theft against her mother? And with it being 10k it's most likely a felony?

I expect that her mother will not press charges.

 

[Irishboy]

Some of the initial news articles incorrectly stated age of consent in Penn was 16. I fell for those myself at first. I think people may still be seeing those. It will be relevant later as to whether additional state charges are filed.

As for the federal issue, its a matter of probably cause at this point. Simply taking the girl across state lines does not in and of itself constitute a federal crime. It must be done for the purpose of facilitating illegal sexual activity. While we all probably assume that there is a sexual relationship, the feds cannot charge that until they have actual evidence of it. Cummins was able to be charged be after he was caught he admitted to investigators that they had had sex several times in various locations. Something similar will probably happen here, but I doubt we see a federal indictment until after they are located. And they WILL be located, that is just a matter of time. Obviously since an amber alert was issued in Mexico, they believe that they have crossed over. Although the ABC article this morning about the Amber Alert still said they were believed to be in the red car.

Thanks
Other circumstantial evidence for Cummins was he had refilled his ED prescription prior, bought lubricant along the way, and rented a single room with only one bed as reported by LE. All came out after. LE may have more, need to look at the totality of the evidence.

ETA - also there was an Amber Alert in Mexico in the Cummins case that was cancelled. They were found days later in northern California.

 

[akazia1978]

I may be wrong but do I recall that AL had some issues at the airport bc they wanted to see her birth certificate? Would that mean she was tryIng to use her Mom’s passport?

I can’t remember but I thought someone mentioned that when they were trying to check in. The person behind them (in line).
I thought it was odd they would need birth certificate for her to fly. It would make sense though if a) she was using her passport and was trying to fly outta country and is below 18 or b) trying to use someone else’s passport and it’s obvious it’s not her

I think it just means they were trying to use her passport. First, buying a one way ticket at the airport tends to raise flags...I've actually had this problem when I lived in Nicaragua, you had to have some proof you were leaving the country with you or they would not let you board the flight (there are ways to get around this without spending the money on a roundtrip ticket, but I won't mention them here).

Second, if you are re-entering the US, you should have a letter of consent and the child's birth certificate so they can confirm you are on it, and that the other person listed is on the notarized letter of consent. Re-entering has stricter rules than leaving....please don't ask me why, I have no clue lol. I'm pretty disturbed how lax they are on leaving right now as I have a daughter.

Now, if he had bought tickets on line, he prob could have gotten away with it, but when actually in the airport, some airlines will tend to ask many more questions....hence the birth certificate question. I'm not even 100% that this was the actual scenario, but that would be my guess as to why, if it was.

 

[PrairieWind]

Thanks
Other circumstantial evidence for Cummins was he had refilled his ED prescription prior, bought lubricant along the way, and rented a single room with only one bed as reported by LE. All came out after. LE may have more, need to lETA ook at the totality of the evidence.

ETA - also there was an Amber Alert in Mexico in the Cummins case that was cancelled. They were found days later in northern California.

I didn't know about the ED prescription. LOL. Pathetic. And you're right, the Mexico Amber Alert could just be precautionary. I actually hope they have not gone to Mexico and stay in the US. Getting to Mexico under their circumstances exposes AY to a lot more risks and danger.

 

[KaaBoom]

So why did it get elevated to an Amber Alert?
I was terrified when I saw that change thinking they had found a suicide pact or a plan to kill her or traffic her or something.
Are the criteria just different in Mexico? Or did some new information come up that we've missed?

I think the criteria is the same. I believe this means they have evidence that they are now in Mexico. So that is where they issued the Amber Alert for. Before this they may not have had any clues as to where they went after Dallas. My gut feeling is that they rented a car at DFW and drove it to Mexico, where it has now been found. Or as others here have speculated, maybe they took a bus or other transportation to Mexico. Whatever happened the Amber Alert means they are likely now in Mexico.

 

[Irishboy]

I think the criteria is the same. I believe this means they have evidence that they are now in Mexico. So that is where they issued the Amber Alert for. Before this they may not have had any clues as to where they went after Dallas. My gut feeling is that they rented a car at DFW and drove it to Mexico, where it has now been found. Or as others here have speculated, maybe they took a bus or other transportation to Mexico. Whatever happened the Amber Alert means they are likely now in Mexico.

Painfully I think you have to take things at face value and agree.

ETA - strange there is no amber alert in the states.

 

[Irishboy]

I think it just means they were trying to use her passport. First, buying a one way ticket at the airport tends to raise flags...I've actually had this problem when I lived in Nicaragua, you had to have some proof you were leaving the country with you or they would not let you board the flight (there are ways to get around this without spending the money on a roundtrip ticket, but I won't mention them here).

Second, if you are re-entering the US, you should have a letter of consent and the child's birth certificate so they can confirm you are on it, and that the other person listed is on the notarized letter of consent. Re-entering has stricter rules than leaving....please don't ask me why, I have no clue lol. I'm pretty disturbed how lax they are on leaving right now as I have a daughter.

Now, if he had bought tickets on line, he prob could have gotten away with it, but when actually in the airport, some airlines will tend to ask many more questions....hence the birth certificate question. I'm not even 100% that this was the actual scenario, but that would be my guess as to why, if it was.

if the event occurred it could also have been a simple thing that he was trying to buy a ticket with a child fare and they wanted proof of age to give them a discount.

 

[akazia1978]

if the event occurred it could also have been a simple thing that he was trying to buy a ticket with a child fare and they wanted proof of age to give them a discount.

Yeah, I've actually never found a child fare on the airlines, and I travel a lot. This link states they do not exist within the US, and if you can find them for international travel the child must be under 12. So I'm doubtful that was the case.
http://onemileatatime.boardingarea.com/2017/01/29/do-airlines-offer-kids-fares/

 

[akazia1978]

Actually it can't possibly be the case with a passport stating she is 16...

 

[Irishboy]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but am I the only one tho thinks that A. committed theft against her mother? And with it being 10k it's most likely a felony?

Agree if its true.
And he is likely using that as additional leverage to keep her under control and on the run from arrest.

 

[Irishboy]

Yeah, I've actually never found a child fare on the airlines, and I travel a lot. This link states they do not exist within the US, and if you can find them for international travel the child must be under 12. So I'm doubtful that was the case.
http://onemileatatime.boardingarea.com/2017/01/29/do-airlines-offer-kids-fares/

Go to expedia site, if you put in a child passenger they also ask for the age. No promise to find one but they try.
12 seems to be the cutoff but maybe he was trying