PA - Conner Snyder, 8, & Brinley, 4, hangings, Berks Co., 23 Sept 2019 *Mom arrested* *GRAPHIC* #2

[steeltowngirl]

Lisa Snyder desperately needed help. I expect there will eventually be an insanity plea. Hopefully it will be determined that despite her obvious mental issues, she was legally competent at the time of the murders, and will proceed to trial.

I don’t understand why she didn’t commit suicide, rather than murder the children. It’s a harsh opinion, I know. Best case would have been for her to have gotten help, and everyone would be alive. But absent that, why didn’t she just take herself out. Why kill those innocent kids?

This is one of the most hideous, and saddest cases I’ve seen.

jmo

 

[FlossyMay]

I still can't figure out why she did this.

 

[imstilla.grandma]

Lisa Snyder desperately needed help. I expect there will eventually be an insanity plea. Hopefully it will be determined that despite her obvious mental issues, she was legally competent at the time of the murders, and will proceed to trial.

I don’t understand why she didn’t commit suicide, rather than murder the children. It’s a harsh opinion, I know. Best case would have been for her to have gotten help, and everyone would be alive. But absent that, why didn’t she just take herself out. Why kill those innocent kids?

This is one of the most hideous, and saddest cases I’ve seen.

jmo

I agree. This case began as such a trigger for me. So much, I ran away and tried to ignore this thread. My young 16 year old nephew hanged himself. My youngest sister and 11 year old nephew found him hanging in the garage. I remember the detectives came in to talk to us. They had tears in their eyes. They helped to bring down his body and were visibly shaken. Time heals all. It’s a slow process though. My sister and her family received so much help and support. This is a tough case for sure. Lately, the evil inflicted on innocent children has started to wear me down. I am detaching. Or trying... I’m trying to stay on the surface and stay out of the still waters that run so deep. I can only wonder about Lisa Snyder’s childhood. Did she suffer trauma? Have we heard anything about her parents? From the link:


Snyder did not appear to have any supporters in the courtroom.

The family had a history with child protective services. In 2014, Conner and Snyder’s older son were removed from their mother’s care by a judge, though authorities have not detailed why. The boys were returned to her within months, and the child protection case was later closed, ending Berks County caseworkers’ supervision of the household.

 

[steeltowngirl]

I agree. This case began as such a trigger for me. So much, I ran away and tried to ignore this thread. My young 16 year old nephew hanged himself. My youngest sister and 11 year old nephew found him hanging in the garage. I remember the detectives came in to talk to us. They had tears in their eyes. They helped to bring down his body and were visibly shaken. Time heals all. It’s a slow process though. My sister and her family received so much help and support. This is a tough case for sure. Lately, the evil inflicted on innocent children has started to wear me down. I am detaching. Or trying... I’m trying to stay on the surface and stay out of the still waters that run so deep. I can only wonder about Lisa Snyder’s childhood. Did she suffer trauma? Have we heard anything about her parents? From the link:


Snyder did not appear to have any supporters in the courtroom.

The family had a history with child protective services. In 2014, Conner and Snyder’s older son were removed from their mother’s care by a judge, though authorities have not detailed why. The boys were returned to her within months, and the child protection case was later closed, ending Berks County caseworkers’ supervision of the household.

I am so sorry for the experience you went through. No child should have to live through that and endure the memories. I don’t blame you at all from running away from this case.

l have not read much about Lisa’s childhood, aside from her experiencing postpartum depression at age 16. I suppose her attorney will present more of her background as part of the mounting of evidence for an insanity defense.

jmo

 

[imstilla.grandma]

I am so sorry for the experience you went through. No child should have to live through that and endure the memories. I don’t blame you at all from running away from this case.

l have not read much about Lisa’s childhood, aside from her experiencing postpartum depression at age 16. I suppose her attorney will present more of her background as part of the mounting of evidence for an insanity defense.

jmo

Thank you so much for your kind words. This is what I find for Lisa’s parents:
At the hearing, Snyder’s attorney said his client had less than $400 in the bank when she was taken into custody. Her only asset, he said, was a 2017 Ford Fusion that she acquired by trading in a jeep her grandfather gave her, The (Allentown) Morning Call reported.

Snyder’s parents want to sell the car to reimburse their retirement fund, which they used to get their daughter a lawyer. Prosecutors say proceeds from any sale of the vehicle, which they say is worth about $23,000, should be spent on her defense before public funds are used.
Mom accused of killing kids found hanging in Pa. home says she can’t afford lawyer

eta review:
Lisa Snyder: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know | Heavy.com

 

[FlossyMay]

Can't afford a lawyer? Well, dang, maybe she should have thought of that before she murdered her children.

 

[Lusitana]

I always wondered if drugs were involved here. No excuses though, she knew what she was doing.

 

[gitana1]

So she's claiming an insanity defense...
Lisa Snyder, accused of hanging children in Berks County, will mount insanity defense

ETA: Quote from article re: motion "Snyder’s mental illness manifested in suicidal ideations and a perception that her children were being harmed physically and emotionally by others, her lawyers contend. The mental illness brought out a “desire to protect her children from feelings of abandonment and/or to alleviate the painful feelings and situations they were experiencing at the time,” the motion states."

It’s not even creative. She’s just copying cases like the Yates case and others where the mothers had religious delusions brought on by psychosis.

Note that those women didn’t try to hide the fact that the killed their kids. They readily admitted to it. Yates, Deanna Laney, Julie Schenecker...

This monster is nothing like them. She carefully planned to cover this up and pretend her kids did it to themselves. Oh she might be crazy but she’s also evil. She knew what she was doing and it wasn’t because she had a psychotic delusion. She wanted to have gross sex with her new boyfriend.

 

[gitana1]

Ok. She is pleading insanity, but .. The court documents also ask for other relief, including that the dog-related sexual charges be detached from the murder charges because Snyder's attorneys believe they have no bearing on the case and may taint the jury's perception.

She wants the jury to believe she’s insane, and somehow the vile dog stuff will taint them.. how? Hearing that would prove she’s sane? Sheesh.

I am going to need a strong stomach to follow this case.

I’m so sad for Conner and Brinley. The only saving grace is they are now away from this monster. Their lives were probably hell.

jmo

Yes. I physically grimace whenever I see the title pop up in “new posts”.

 

[gitana1]

I agree there's no doubt that LS is not mentally healthy but when the defense asserts that the defendant is not guilty by reason of insanity, they are essentially admitting the defendant committed the act of the offense yet denying responsibility because the defendant lacked the capacity to act with criminal intent at the time.

Criminal insanity doesn't operate like a light switch where LS was capable of going about her day on Monday from 8AM - 4PM and at 4:01PM when the kids got home from school she flipped to insanity mode, and hoisted her children up to the basement rafters by their necks with a cable dog tie.

Nope. LS denied responsibility for killing her children at the earliest opportunity possible or when she phoned 911 -- and not because she was insane but because she knew the difference between right and wrong and immediately blamed Conner for his own death and the death of his little sister Brinley to avoid punishment.

LS did not destroy or disappear the cell phone she used to call 911 because she was insane at the time she murdered her children. LS mindset was that she needed to get rid of incriminating evidence.

I think there's no chance the defense will prove by clear and convincing evidence that LS was criminally insane when she killed her children and/or that LS was unable to appreciate what she was doing to her children on Monday, Sept 23, 2019 was wrong.

IMO, this insanity defense is nothing more than her defense team's attempt to save LS from the death penalty by introducing mitigating evidence against death by introducing LS's mental history.

MOO

Which they could just do during the mitigation phase. But yeah, this would make a stronger case. It worked with Jodi Arias to avoid the death penalty.

Everything you’ve said is totally accurate. This defense will fail.

 

[gitana1]

One week after her children were found hanging from a dog lead in the basement of her Berks County home, Lisa Snyder sent a text message to her friend, Jessica Senft.

“I need two strong drinks,” Snyder wrote, according to Senft.

Senft invited Snyder over and the women huddled on the porch of Senft’s Slatington home to talk about Snyder’s children, Conner and Brinley.

As the alcohol soothed Snyder’s nerves, said Senft, who testified at Snyder’s preliminary hearing Wednesday at the Berks County Courthouse, Snyder became more relaxed. She eventually confided in her friend that she expected to be arrested for Conner and Brinley’s deaths, but believed she’d be released on bail since she had no prior criminal record.

“And when she got out, she would kill herself,” Senft said.

“These children were found hanged. Their mother was the only adult in the house,” Assistant District Attorney Margaret McCallum said.

McCallum said Snyder’s story, that Conner took his own life and that of his little sister Sept. 23 didn’t make sense, especially since an occupational therapist who worked with Conner at Greenwich Elementary told police that the third grader lacked the dexterity to fasten the dog lead into two nooses.

"Conner was incapable of doing this to himself. He was incapable of doing this to his sister,” McCallum said.

Paramedic Eric Bubbenmoyer said he rushed into the home after getting the call that two children were hanging inside. Bubbenmoyer said he passed Snyder, who was sitting on the front steps of the house, talking on her cellphone.

Bubbenmoyer described Snyder as “very anxious, very nervous,” but added, “she was not crying.”

Trooper Jeffrey Hummel helped carry the children out of the basement on stretchers after paramedics were unable to revive them and called for a helicopter to take them to Lehigh Valley Hospital-Cedar Crest. Hummel fought back tears as McCallum asked him to identify the children from photos.

Snyder’s attorney, Dennis Charles, questioned Hummel about why he was so upset, since he didn’t know the children.

“I’m human,” the trooper replied.

Lisa Snyder will stand trial in hanging deaths of her two children: ‘Conner was incapable of doing this to himself’

Timeline of events in investigation of Berks children found hanged in basement

“I’m human.”

Unlike the murderer in this case. Or, apparently, her attorney.

What on earth would prompt him or her to ask such a sociopathic question?

 

[gitana1]

Lisa Snyder desperately needed help. I expect there will eventually be an insanity plea. Hopefully it will be determined that despite her obvious mental issues, she was legally competent at the time of the murders, and will proceed to trial.

I don’t understand why she didn’t commit suicide, rather than murder the children. It’s a harsh opinion, I know. Best case would have been for her to have gotten help, and everyone would be alive. But absent that, why didn’t she just take herself out. Why kill those innocent kids?

This is one of the most hideous, and saddest cases I’ve seen.

jmo

IMO because she wasn’t suicidal. She wanted to be free to mess around with that gross man. She was obsessed and the kids got in the way.

 

[gitana1]

I still can't figure out why she did this.

To be free to mess around with that nasty boyfriend of hers. That’s my sense. Because the kids were killed after she spent time trying to get a chance to be alone with him and I think her mother wouldn’t babysit.

Similar thing with casey anthony.

Grandparents- if your unstable adult child asks you to babysit, don’t refuse in an effort to force them to be responsible. If you can do it, do it. The kids don’t need a parent who is learning how to be an adult or how to be stable by experimenting with raising children.

 

[steeltowngirl]

“I’m human.”

Unlike the murderer in this case. Or, apparently, her attorney.

What on earth would prompt him or her to ask such a sociopathic question?

I know, weird question wasn’t it? Does defending a sociopath require an attorney temporarily become one themselves?

 

[AgeofAquaruis]

One week after her children were found hanging from a dog lead in the basement of her Berks County home, Lisa Snyder sent a text message to her friend, Jessica Senft.

“I need two strong drinks,” Snyder wrote, according to Senft.

Senft invited Snyder over and the women huddled on the porch of Senft’s Slatington home to talk about Snyder’s children, Conner and Brinley.

As the alcohol soothed Snyder’s nerves, said Senft, who testified at Snyder’s preliminary hearing Wednesday at the Berks County Courthouse, Snyder became more relaxed. She eventually confided in her friend that she expected to be arrested for Conner and Brinley’s deaths, but believed she’d be released on bail since she had no prior criminal record.

“And when she got out, she would kill herself,” Senft said.

“These children were found hanged. Their mother was the only adult in the house,” Assistant District Attorney Margaret McCallum said.

McCallum said Snyder’s story, that Conner took his own life and that of his little sister Sept. 23 didn’t make sense, especially since an occupational therapist who worked with Conner at Greenwich Elementary told police that the third grader lacked the dexterity to fasten the dog lead into two nooses.

"Conner was incapable of doing this to himself. He was incapable of doing this to his sister,” McCallum said.

Paramedic Eric Bubbenmoyer said he rushed into the home after getting the call that two children were hanging inside. Bubbenmoyer said he passed Snyder, who was sitting on the front steps of the house, talking on her cellphone.

Bubbenmoyer described Snyder as “very anxious, very nervous,” but added, “she was not crying.”

Trooper Jeffrey Hummel helped carry the children out of the basement on stretchers after paramedics were unable to revive them and called for a helicopter to take them to Lehigh Valley Hospital-Cedar Crest. Hummel fought back tears as McCallum asked him to identify the children from photos.

Snyder’s attorney, Dennis Charles, questioned Hummel about why he was so upset, since he didn’t know the children.

“I’m human,” the trooper replied.

Lisa Snyder will stand trial in hanging deaths of her two children: ‘Conner was incapable of doing this to himself’

Timeline of events in investigation of Berks children found hanged in basement

Wow. That lawyer sunk way down low with that. SMH. I hope those pics haunt his sleep. MOO

 

[Seattle1]

I know, weird question wasn’t it? Does defending a sociopath require an attorney temporarily become one themselves?

Wow-- talk about trying to relate to your client!

 

[Seattle1]

To be free to mess around with that nasty boyfriend of hers. That’s my sense. Because the kids were killed after she spent time trying to get a chance to be alone with him and I think her mother wouldn’t babysit.

Similar thing with casey anthony.

Grandparents- if your unstable adult child asks you to babysit, don’t refuse in an effort to force them to be responsible. If you can do it, do it. The kids don’t need a parent who is learning how to be an adult or how to be stable by experimenting with raising children.

^^bbm

Thank you @gitana1 -- this is incredible, sound, advice!

My workmate recently gained legal custody of his grandchildren after their mother, his adult daughter, voluntarily left two drug rehab programs (that he funded).

Not long after his wife died of cancer, he recognized his longtime efforts to keep his adult daughter out of the criminal system would be better spent at protecting his grandchildren. Not only are the children safe and thriving today, but he also stopped their mother from continuing to dangle the children in front of other family members, in a move to manipulate them, and nourish her own selfish needs.

 

[gitana1]

I know, weird question wasn’t it? Does defending a sociopath require an attorney temporarily become one themselves?

It’s weird but often attorneys mirror their clients. But I feel like someone who defends this woman has to be slightly sociopathic. I mean I just couldn’t.

Wow. That lawyer sunk way down low with that. SMH. I hope those pics haunt his sleep. MOO

A total creep. Disgusting human.

 

[gitana1]

^^bbm

Thank you @gitana1 -- this is incredible, sound, advice!

My workmate recently gained legal custody of his grandchildren after their mother, his adult daughter, voluntarily left two drug rehab programs (that he funded).

Not long after his wife died of cancer, he recognized his longtime efforts to keep his adult daughter out of the criminal system would be better spent at protecting his grandchildren. Not only are the children safe and thriving today, but he also stopped their mother from continuing to dangle the children in front of other family members, in a move to manipulate them, and nourish her own selfish needs.

I like that. I have little empathy for sick people for whom indulging their illness (rather than getting treatment) is more important than the needs of their children.

 

[katydid23]

I dont disagree at all that she obviously has issues. But I do want to note that mental illness or obtaining psychiatric care does not mean CPS should be involved or that a person with mental illness can't care for children. Unless her provider suspected she was actively suicidal or homicidal, they would be under no obligation to report anything she said in therapy or appointments to CPS or LE. And as an adult, she was free to seek or not seek out mental health care. Its such a fine line, the kids should never be at risk, but unless or until a mentally ill person harms themselves or someone else, there is nothing that can be forced on them.

I agree that 'obtaining psychiatric care does not mean CPS should be involved or that a person with mental illness can't care for children.'

Someone can for example, battle depression or bi-polar disorder and be a capable parent. But here is how the defense attorney described their client:

"...Snyder has a “chronic history of severe mental disorders,” including major depression with psychotic features, anxiety disorder, affective disorder and post-partum depression dating to when she was 16.

At the time of the alleged homicides, they said, Snyder had recurrent and severe depression as well as borderline personality disorder and symptoms consistent with post-traumatic stress disorder, multiple personality disorder and dissociative disorder."


So this is a bit more than your standard mental health issue. It is 'severe mental disorders' including MAJOR Depression and Psychosis.

A parent with a series of severe mental disorders, including major depression with psychotic features, should NOT be a single parent of two young children.

Even if a mental health patient does not 'harm' themselves or their children, there should be some CPS involvement or close supervision by a responsible adult, if that patient is having severe depression with psychotic episodes and post partum depression.

How many cases have we seen here where a post partum patient or a psychotic patient has snapped and harmed or killed someone? Way too many, IMO.