PA - Ellen Greenberg, 27, Philly teacher’s brutal stabbing, ruled suicide but possible homicide, Jan 2011

[ForensicPatterns]

Update to my above comment post.

Found two key interesting things in this one article from August 24th, 2024:
Teacher Ellen Greenberg may have hidden vital clue in her journal before she was stabbed to death 20 times in 'suicide' - so where is it?

Greenberg's body was also covered in 11 bruises on her arm, abdomen, and leg at varying stages of healing, which her father claimed had to be from abuse over a long period of time.

'I think those those injuries are crucial to the whole thing,' he said, adding that covering up the abuse could be a motive for murdering her.

Joshua said his daughter's behavior changed and she wanted to quit her job, leave Goldberg and move back home with her parents, and they had agreed to take her in.

'Sandy and I both believe Ellen was gonna go home that day,' he said.

'She had taken off the engagement ring, had packed up her makeup, which was very valuable to her, and she was planning to leave.

'And I think things didn't work out well, and she never made it home.'

Police claimed the bruises were likely from playing contact sports, or doing yoga or pilates - none of which Greenberg did.

'The whole thing is baloney,' Joshua said.

Greenberg's parents also insisted she was not suicidal, but she was nervous and anxious in the weeks leading up to her death.

And the second key important clue:

Greenberg's parents also said someone cashed her tax return, which Joshua and Sandee filed after her death, but they were unsure who.

Meaning? Sam Greenberg murdered Ellen because she was done-done with him, as in looking to breakup, end the engagement, move back home to her parents very quietly without him trying to stop her. I bet he found out, did a whole "if I can't have you, no one can have you" mindset about why he murdered her, then proceeded to cover it up as a suicide.

Hence why, I wouldn't be surprised if Sam also cashed out her tax return. I say look at how much her TR was, look at anything Sam bought within 72hrs or if it was a physical check that needed to be cashed, easiest way is to trace that exact amount in the city of Philadelphia, to find CCTV archives, if at all possible, they still exist. Thats how you find out the full truth, the motive, and means to why.

 

[IloveAaronEckhart4Ever]

How can one stab themselves in the back, neck and face? It doesn’t make sense to me. It makes you wonder, doesn’t it?

 

[ForensicPatterns]

How can one stab themselves in the back, neck and face? It doesn’t make sense to me. It makes you wonder, doesn’t it?

You physically cannot unless you are double jointed and dislocate your arm from the socket in your shoulder.

Also a CNN article that came out last year, they talked about how a new ME got a hold of the saved spine cord evidence of Ellen. They noted after much detailed review, not only was there no hemorrhaging (ie - no blood had spilled out), but that it was indicative of a postmortem cut.

Meaning? Ellen was stabbed after she was dead.

There is also clear evidence, which the police never asked Sam while he was in interrogation for 3hrs without a lawyer, about the bruises on Elle's body; bruises that were in different healing stages as well, which is often a known sign of physical abuse. There is ahigh reason to believe based on the timeline of events, when people around Ellen noted she was less of herself publicly, it's very possible that's when he started abusing her which lines up with not long after getting engaged.

And one last thing... Sam got engaged to Carrie, his now wife, only 10 months after Ellen's death and her family was in the same social circle's as Sam's family, his lawyer Uncle was and still good friends with Gov. Josh Shapiro who was the AG on the case as well.

And her tax return money after her death was cashed out.

Actor Adam Pally was Sam's roommate in college at Arizona, they started a podcast a few years ago as well and in episode two they go on to talk about how Sam hides weed, they recovered from Sam's closet in the apartment he shared with Ellen, items pointing to a bong and more. It's illegal back then and still is in PA.

Then the towel she had in her hands, Ellen has a very "everything belongs in it's place" mindset about keeping tidy. The knife block was the only thing knocked over in the kitchen, they also found a white hand towel with only two drops of blood on it.

Then the property manager, Melissa, she has gone on the record stating that you can latch the door and accidently lock yourself out of the apartment!!! She has said she had this happen to her before more than once and could easily recreate it.

When you look at all this... seems pretty obvious it's not only a coverup, but a straight up briery and blackmail scandal that goes way deeper than just Ellen getting murder.

 

[Dotta]

I honestly don't understand why this case ended this way
Was it conspiracy?
Who is the ex partner?
Was his family influential or what?
This is the US, not some banana republic.
There are professionals conducting the investigation.
Professionals conducting post mortem.
What is really going on???

This is terrible

RIP to this poor woman.

JMO

 

[IloveAaronEckhart4Ever]

You physically cannot unless you are double jointed and dislocate your arm from the socket in your shoulder.

Also a CNN article that came out last year, they talked about how a new ME got a hold of the saved spine cord evidence of Ellen. They noted after much detailed review, not only was there no hemorrhaging (ie - no blood had spilled out), but that it was indicative of a postmortem cut.

Meaning? Ellen was stabbed after she was dead.

There is also clear evidence, which the police never asked Sam while he was in interrogation for 3hrs without a lawyer, about the bruises on Elle's body; bruises that were in different healing stages as well, which is often a known sign of physical abuse. There is ahigh reason to believe based on the timeline of events, when people around Ellen noted she was less of herself publicly, it's very possible that's when he started abusing her which lines up with not long after getting engaged.

And one last thing... Sam got engaged to Carrie, his now wife, only 10 months after Ellen's death and her family was in the same social circle's as Sam's family, his lawyer Uncle was and still good friends with Gov. Josh Shapiro who was the AG on the case as well.

And her tax return money after her death was cashed out.

Actor Adam Pally was Sam's roommate in college at Arizona, they started a podcast a few years ago as well and in episode two they go on to talk about how Sam hides weed, they recovered from Sam's closet in the apartment he shared with Ellen, items pointing to a bong and more. It's illegal back then and still is in PA.

Then the towel she had in her hands, Ellen has a very "everything belongs in it's place" mindset about keeping tidy. The knife block was the only thing knocked over in the kitchen, they also found a white hand towel with only two drops of blood on it.

Then the property manager, Melissa, she has gone on the record stating that you can latch the door and accidently lock yourself out of the apartment!!! She has said she had this happen to her before more than once and could easily recreate it.

When you look at all this... seems pretty obvious it's not only a coverup, but a straight up briery and blackmail scandal that goes way deeper than just Ellen getting murder.

Was Ellen double jointed?

 

[sunspun]

How can one stab themselves in the back, neck and face? It doesn’t make sense to me. It makes you wonder, doesn’t it?

Makes you wonder, yeah. Also makes me sick. Makes me wanna throw up. How could they be so obvious about all this and still get away with it? Is there even one honest non-corrupt person in this whole city's justice system?

 

[snarast]

So, from a completely different context - I stumbled across this article: Alexander, 19, spetsades av sin egen bajonett

Basically, this guy who was a royal guard - slipped on ice outside the royal castle and ended up with his own bayonet piercing his skull - about 4 inches.

This is the angle (source aftonbladet.se)

It did not, however pierce his brain. That’s why he’s alive. I wanted to post this because it vividly demonstrates how difficult it would be to get your right hand to stab yourself anywhere near the place in the brain Ellen was stabbed at.

Again, one of at least three deadly stabs she sustained. IMHO

 

[bombardier]

Was Ellen double jointed?

ive heard nothing about Ellen having hypermobility, or any syndrome causing hypermobility. even if she was; i think it would be very hard to have any power in your thrusts with your arms twisted to the back, because the muscles are just not made for that and joints would be loose and unstable.

 

[BeginnerSleuther]

One interesting factor I think was strongly used as to help cover and ruled Ellen as a "suicide", is that her laptop on January 10th, 2011 had a search for quick death and euthanasia, while also browsing a website about painless suicide options.

She was also the week of December 18th, only after THREE SESSIONS with a psychiatrist, was prescribed Klonopin (used to treat anxiety, seizures, and phobia disorders; is a benzodiazepine) and Ambien (used for insomnia). She was diagnosed with anxiety and panic attacks.

They recommend if you have depression or suicidal thoughts, to not take Ambien. Moreover, this just means after three sessions, her psychiatrist basically gave her a drug prescription that exasperated her depression suicidal symptoms (ie - further means of covering up and ruling it a suicide).

Klonopin, side effects depression and may cause suicidal thoughts ( ie - another piece of evidence to pin suicide as a ruling on Ellen!).

Three sessions is more than adequate to determine if someone needs a medication like Klonopin or Ambien. Who is "they" who recommend not taking Ambien if depressed? A significant symptom of depression is sleep dysregulation and getting it under control with a temporary dose of a sleep aid is actually standard. Most doctors start with non-controlled substances, but if those don't work, then drugs like Ambien tend to be second or third line.

ANY psychoactive drug can cause suicidal thoughts. That's what happens when you're targeting brain chemistry. Even over-the-counter Benadryl can cause suicidal thoughts. It's extremely rare, kind of in the same universe as the number of people who die of a regular dose of Tylenol.

I don't think Ellen committed suicide based on what I know of the case, but these particular facts aren't really relevant, IMO.

Taking these two drugs together is strongly discourage and can lead to dangerous side effects.. like death as one of the main side effects besides difficulty breathing, severe drowsiness, and unresponsiveness.

This is because both can be sedating. However, one can take Klonopin in the morning and take Ambien in the evening without any such interaction. So again, the interpretation of what's stated online isn't black and white. Pursuing this line in court will only backfire and distract from the actual evidence, IMO.

This case is wild.

 

[arielilane]

Yesterday (January 26, 2025) marked 14 years since Ellen Greenberg was found died in her apartment after sustaining 20 stab wounds … 10 stab wounds to her back, 10 stab wounds to her neck), which, imo, were not self-inflicted wounds caused by EG. May the truth prevail. moo

 

[Emi]

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[sds71]

Family of Ellen Greenberg can take city of Philadelphia to trial, judge rules

A judge ruled on Friday that the parents of Ellen Greenberg can take the city of Philadelphia to trial after her 2011 death. Jury selection is expected to start Monday.

www.nbcphiladelphia.com

The lawsuit against Philadelphia is one of two that the Greenbergs have filed. The second lawsuit aims to change the ruling on their daughter’s death certificate. That case is pending before the Pennsylvania Supreme Court

 

[Seattle1]

Family of Ellen Greenberg can take city of Philadelphia to trial, judge rules

A judge ruled on Friday that the parents of Ellen Greenberg can take the city of Philadelphia to trial after her 2011 death. Jury selection is expected to start Monday.

www.nbcphiladelphia.com

The lawsuit against Philadelphia is one of two that the Greenbergs have filed. The second lawsuit aims to change the ruling on their daughter’s death certificate. That case is pending before the Pennsylvania Supreme Court

IMO, the quoted paragraphs below form the basis for the very serious problem for the Greenberg's not only in PA but families across the country where respective State Statutes have empowered the State's Medical Examiner and/or Coroner with absolute supreme authority where they do not have to acknowledge they made an error determining manner of death, and even if they choose to acknowledge their mistake, they have no requirement to amend the paperwork (i.e., death certificate) to reflect the correction, and no law says they have to!

In nearly every case of this nature I'm familiar with where the death was clearly a homicide, the family would be satisfied just to receive an amended death certificate citing the manner of death as "undetermined" as opposed to erroneous "suicide." MOO

From the quoted MSM link:

Over the past several years, Greenberg’s parents – Josh and Sandee Greenberg -- have sought to have the ruling changed back to homicide and filed a lawsuit against Philadelphia. The city has objected, arguing that state law "makes clear that a medical examiner can be wrong as to the manner of death yet cannot be compelled to change it.”

And cited case pending before the PA Supreme Court:

“Since the current death certificate reflecting that Greenberg committed suicide would present a nearly insurmountable hurdle for the Plaintiffs in bringing a wrongful death action, it is not unreasonable, unjust or an abuse of discretion for the Court to make a declaratory finding that Dr. Osbourne may have erroneously determined Greenberg’s manner of death or abused his discretion by not even considering whether it was appropriate to amend her death certificate under the unique circumstances of this case,” the Court wrote.

 

[arielilane]

According to attorney Joe Podraza, jury selection in the trial will begin on Monday, Feb. 3 with opening statements starting that day or Tuesday.

The judge ruled on Jan. 31 that medical examiners Marlon Osbourne and Sam Gulino must testify at trial along with homicide detective John McNamee.

Family of Ellen Greenberg can take city of Philadelphia to trial, judge rules

A judge ruled on Friday that the parents of Ellen Greenberg can take the city of Philadelphia to trial after her 2011 death. Jury selection is expected to start Monday.

www.nbcphiladelphia.com

1.31.2025

Ellen Greenberg

 

[arielilane]

@BrianEntin

Big development in the Ellen Greenberg case. A judge is allowing her parents to take the City of Philadelphia to trial. Her family says Ellen's homicide was covered up by police and ruled a suicide. Trial starts next week and I'll be there.

Back story: https://shorturl.at/MTqoi

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[Seattle1]

I've long wondered what happened to former prosecutor D'Andrea after he wouldn't go along with this "suicide" charade. As I've opined with other cases, he too stated that at a minimum, 'from an everday standpoint, this was an "undetermined manner of death".' I hope he's allowed to be called as a witness at trial. MOO

PA Prosecutor Guy D'Andrea doubted death ruling

A former prosecutor's concerns with the case​

In an interview with NBC10, D'Andrea said that there were a few elements of the case that made him believe Greenberg's death should not have been categorized as a suicide.

"At a minimum, from an everyday standpoint, this is an undetermined manner of death," D'Andrea told NBC10.

First, from his review of the case file, D'Andrea argued that forensic investigation of the crime showed that Greenberg's spine was pierced during the incident, which he said would have "immediately incapacitated" her.

And, he continued, if she was incapacitated, she could have never been able to stab herself nearly two dozen times.

"She wouldn't have been able to continue to stab herself," he argued. "She would not have been able to stab herself in the chest."

 

[sds71]

BREAKING NEWS — this is @JoeHoldenCBS3 with a major development in the 2011 case / death investigation of Ellen Greenberg. The pathologist who conducted her autopsy now writes in a sworn statement, her manner of death “should be designated as something other than suicide.”

The pathologist is one of three defendants expected to go on trial Monday for a claim by Ellen’s parents he caused emotional distress by conspiring to cover up what lawyers say was Ellen’s murder. His sworn statement is part of a settlement he reached with the Greenbergs today.

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[Knox]

@BrianEntin

Big development in the Ellen Greenberg case. A judge is allowing her parents to take the City of Philadelphia to trial. Her family says Ellen's homicide was covered up by police and ruled a suicide. Trial starts next week and I'll be there.

Back story: https://shorturl.at/MTqoi

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I just saw the ruling on this case. I'll go back and start at the beginning this evening - but did want to ask, for those of you who followed the case. Why would the police want to cover up her death? Is a member of LE responsible? TIA

It would seem difficult to believe someone could stab themselves to death in this manner. What in God's name was the ME thinking?

 

[snarast]

I just saw the ruling on this case. I'll go back and start at the beginning this evening - but did want to ask, for those of you who followed the case. Why would the police want to cover up her death? Is a member of LE responsible? TIA

It would seem difficult to believe someone could stab themselves to death in this manner. What in God's name was the ME thinking?

LE didn’t see the extent of her injuries at the scene. They informally concluded suicide. But they hadn’t seen the 10 stabs to the back of her head/neck/back.

After that, it went downhill, starting with a premature professional clean up of the scene.

 

[Seattle1]

BREAKING NEWS — this is @JoeHoldenCBS3 with a major development in the 2011 case / death investigation of Ellen Greenberg. The pathologist who conducted her autopsy now writes in a sworn statement, her manner of death “should be designated as something other than suicide.”

The pathologist is one of three defendants expected to go on trial Monday for a claim by Ellen’s parents he caused emotional distress by conspiring to cover up what lawyers say was Ellen’s murder. His sworn statement is part of a settlement he reached with the Greenbergs today.

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Oh, man. Dr. Osbourne has known this from day one. He made the correct finding before! He disgusts me! JMO