PA - Ellen Greenberg, 27, Philly teacher’s brutal stabbing, ruled suicide but possible homicide, Jan 2011

  • #361
Ugh, this should've should've been a homicide investigation since DAY 1.
The fact that it was ever ruled a suicide is mind boggling to me. I also can't help but think of how similar this is to Rebecca Zahau, also from 2011... 2 very unfortunate deaths that should've been investigated with intense scrutiny from the start.
This is one of those cases that I need to see justice served in my lifetime.
 
  • #362
Every single person involved in this should be serving lengthy prison sentences. These parents deserve millions from the city.

MOO.
I do think they will get a large settlement in the end. And they deserve the world for losing their gorgeous girl, then having to fight for justice. This case is nuts, from day one, just shocking.
 
  • #363
@BrianEntin


"There has been no dialogue with the fiancé."
Ellen Greenberg's family has not heard from her fiancé Sam Goldberg, according to their attorney.

Despite 20 stab wounds, her death was ruled a suicide.

But now -- 14 years later -- the medical examiner has changed his mind.





Attorney: Ellen Greenberg's family hasn't heard from her fiancé | Banfield​


The family of Ellen Greenberg reached a settlement agreement with Philadelphia officials to reopen the investigation into the teacher’s death more than 14 years after it happened. The Greenberg family attorney Joe Podraza spoke with NewsNation's Brian Entin.
 
  • #364
@BrianEntin


"There has been no dialogue with the fiancé."
Ellen Greenberg's family has not heard from her fiancé Sam Goldberg, according to their attorney.

Despite 20 stab wounds, her death was ruled a suicide.

But now -- 14 years later -- the medical examiner has changed his mind.





Attorney: Ellen Greenberg's family hasn't heard from her fiancé | Banfield​


The family of Ellen Greenberg reached a settlement agreement with Philadelphia officials to reopen the investigation into the teacher’s death more than 14 years after it happened. The Greenberg family attorney Joe Podraza spoke with NewsNation's Brian Entin.
I wish the ME in Zahau would change his mind--- Even though it has been a horrendous slog thru the medial and legal systems in the Greenberg case, at least there has been progress-- thank goodness.
 
  • #365
  • #366
That was five minutes of my time lost, wasted time. moo
 
  • #367
@BrianEntin


“We never saw any evidence to suggest anything different.”

PA Gov. Josh Shapiro -who was the Attorney General who looked into the Ellen Greenberg case- responds to medical examiner saying death was not a suicide.

Finally got to ask him questions.

More tonight on @NewsNation.


Wow... so self serving and disingenuous!

How many times have we experienced this wash, rinse, repeat, presentation of new evidence of a homicide-- not only in PA but across the country, where the AG or another entity uses the same, well-worn rubber stamp to claim that the submittal does not represent 'new evidence,' and therefore the death investigation case will remain closed!

Tired of both the AG's office and then the Chester County DA taking this tactic, the Greenberg's circled back and re-focused their efforts on the pathology and autopsy findings of EG, and hired independent experts to test and retest the science, and asked the Supreme Court to consider their findings, praying that the factual disputes settled in favor of the family, could possibly require the death certificate to be changed from suicide to something else.

Similar to this longtime, tired, tactic used by the AG's office and the District Attorney-- claiming the Greenberg's failed to provide 'new evidence' to reopen EG's death investigation, the Greenberg's simply asked the Court for whatever the City defined as the test and/or standard they used to allow Dr. Osbourne, then Medical Examiner, to amend EG's initial death certificate from homicide to suicide.

Again, the family only asked the Supreme Court to measure their request by the same standard used once before by the City's Medical Examiner, and the high Court agreed to hear the case.

So no, Mr. Shapiro, this was not at all as you pontificated before the media. Shame on you!

In reality, no interested party in the state of PA (including the former Medical Examiner-- now practicing in Florida) wanted to ever see a published Opinion by the PA Supreme Court confirming what the former prosecutor opined, supported by independent expert witnesses. The City settling with the Greenberg's, and dismissing the Supreme Court case, insures there will never be a public Court record. MOO

A former prosecutor's concerns with the case

In an interview with NBC10, D'Andrea said that there were a few elements of the case that made him believe Greenberg's death should not have been categorized as a suicide.

"At a minimum, from an everyday standpoint, this is an undetermined manner of death," D'Andrea told NBC10.

First, from his review of the case file, D'Andrea argued that forensic investigation of the crime showed that Greenberg's spine was pierced during the incident, which he said would have "immediately incapacitated" her.

And, he continued, if she was incapacitated, she could have never been able to stab herself nearly two dozen times.

"She wouldn't have been able to continue to stab herself," he argued. "She would not have been able to stab herself in the chest."

Also, D'Andrea said, Greenberg's body may have been moved after her death.

According to D'Andrea, when Greenberg's body was found—in a seated position on the floor—there were traces of blood on her face that seemed to flow from her nostril to her ear, hinting that she may have been laying in a horizontal position for some time.

"She must have been laying long enough on her side for the blood to run in that direction as well as long enough that it wouldn't drag or drip when she was in a seated position," D'Andrea argued.

Yet, D'Andrea noted that both the police investigating the scene and Greenberg's fiancé, who found her after the incident, said Greenberg's body was not moved until after crime scene investigators had reviewed the scene.

Asked why this blood pattern wasn't an issue to investigators previously, D'Andrea said it should have been and argued that he had brought it up with others in the past.

"It came up as 'We've seen stranger things,'" recalled D'Andrea. "Yes, I have too, but never stranger things that have defied physics."

D'Andrea expects to discuss those issues—as well as pointing out a lack of blood found in the apartment despite Greenberg's injuries—if he is brought into court.

Former Prosecutor Guy D'Andrea Expresses Doubt
 
  • #368
Wow... so self serving and disingenuous!

How many times have we experienced this wash, rinse, repeat, presentation of new evidence of a homicide-- not only in PA but across the country, where the AG or another entity uses the same, well-worn rubber stamp to claim that the submittal does not represent 'new evidence,' and therefore the death investigation case will remain closed!

Tired of both the AG's office and then the Chester County DA taking this tactic, the Greenberg's circled back and re-focused their efforts on the pathology and autopsy findings of EG, and hired independent experts to test and retest the science, and asked the Supreme Court to consider their findings, praying that the factual disputes settled in favor of the family, could possibly require the death certificate to be changed from suicide to something else.

Similar to this longtime, tired, tactic used by the AG's office and the District Attorney-- claiming the Greenberg's failed to provide 'new evidence' to reopen EG's death investigation, the Greenberg's simply asked the Court for whatever the City defined as the test and/or standard they used to allow Dr. Osbourne, then Medical Examiner, to amend EG's initial death certificate from homicide to suicide.

Again, the family only asked the Supreme Court to measure their request by the same standard used once before by the City's Medical Examiner, and the high Court agreed to hear the case.

So no, Mr. Shapiro, this was not at all as you pontificated before the media. Shame on you!

In reality, no interested party in the state of PA (including the former Medical Examiner-- now practicing in Florida) wanted to ever see a published Opinion by the PA Supreme Court confirming what the former prosecutor opined, supported by independent expert witnesses. The City settling with the Greenberg's, and dismissing the Supreme Court case, insures there will never be a public Court record. MOO

A former prosecutor's concerns with the case

In an interview with NBC10, D'Andrea said that there were a few elements of the case that made him believe Greenberg's death should not have been categorized as a suicide.

"At a minimum, from an everyday standpoint, this is an undetermined manner of death," D'Andrea told NBC10.

First, from his review of the case file, D'Andrea argued that forensic investigation of the crime showed that Greenberg's spine was pierced during the incident, which he said would have "immediately incapacitated" her.

And, he continued, if she was incapacitated, she could have never been able to stab herself nearly two dozen times.

"She wouldn't have been able to continue to stab herself," he argued. "She would not have been able to stab herself in the chest."

Also, D'Andrea said, Greenberg's body may have been moved after her death.

According to D'Andrea, when Greenberg's body was found—in a seated position on the floor—there were traces of blood on her face that seemed to flow from her nostril to her ear, hinting that she may have been laying in a horizontal position for some time.

"She must have been laying long enough on her side for the blood to run in that direction as well as long enough that it wouldn't drag or drip when she was in a seated position," D'Andrea argued.

Yet, D'Andrea noted that both the police investigating the scene and Greenberg's fiancé, who found her after the incident, said Greenberg's body was not moved until after crime scene investigators had reviewed the scene.

Asked why this blood pattern wasn't an issue to investigators previously, D'Andrea said it should have been and argued that he had brought it up with others in the past.

"It came up as 'We've seen stranger things,'" recalled D'Andrea. "Yes, I have too, but never stranger things that have defied physics."

D'Andrea expects to discuss those issues—as well as pointing out a lack of blood found in the apartment despite Greenberg's injuries—if he is brought into court.


Former Prosecutor Guy D'Andrea Expresses Doubt
Self serving is right. No wonder why Kamala Harris didn't pick him as her VP choice. I shudder to think this man might be the presumptive 2028 Democratic nominee for President.
 
  • #369
Self serving is right. No wonder why Kamala Harris didn't pick him as her VP choice. I shudder to think this man might be the presumptive 2028 Democratic nominee for President.

IMO, these elected positions all follow the same political game. Kamala Harris did the exact same as Shapiro when she was the AG of California and was asked to review the case of Rebecca Zahau, ruled a suicide by the ME. Although a jury agreed with the family, finding judgement against an individual in a civil, wrongful death suit, the defendant has never been investigated and/or criminally charged for the same reasons as this case.
 
  • #370
  • #371
Self serving is right. No wonder why Kamala Harris didn't pick him as her VP choice. I shudder to think this man might be the presumptive 2028 Democratic nominee for President.
I was not aware he was the attorney general and put the kabosh on this case. He now admits he had some kind of relationship with the fiance's family: he should have recused himself right away.
 
  • #372
@BrianEntin


1/3 “Oh my goodness. This scene is staged.” Pennsylvania forensic neuropathologist Dr. Wayne Ross has been investigating the Ellen Greenberg case for 10 years. He believes the murder scene was staged to look like a suicide.


2/3 “Does it make any sense to anybody? Of course not.”
Dr. Ross says the stab wounds and blood spatter at the Ellen Greenberg scene don’t add up.


3/3 Dr. Ross believes Ellen Greenberg was strangled.
He says there are also signs of abuse on her body.
And he says the medical examiner who initially investigated her death — Dr. Osbourne — missed very basic signs.




Ellen Greenberg’s death staged to look like suicide: Neuropathologist​

  • Ellen Greenberg found dead in 2011 with 20 stab wounds
  • Originally considered homicide, case then ruled a suicide
  • Neuropathologist hired by family believes she was strangled


Updated: FEB 6, 2025
 
  • #373
How could so many people have gotten this case wrong? It is truly beyond understanding. Maybe there really was a coverup (and I am not a conspiracy person)
 
  • #374
  • #375
  • #376
  • #377
The case has raised numerous questions, including why Sam Goldberg, Greenberg’s fiancé, who found her body, sent a series of angry and demanding text messages before calling 911, and why his uncle, a prominent Pennsylvania judge, was allowed to remove Greenberg’s belongings, including her computer and cellphone, from the apartment.




A forensic pathologist with the city medical examiner’s office at the time, Dr. Marlon Osbourne, initially ruled Greenberg’s death a homicide, according to court documents. Then he reversed course after meeting with police behind closed doors and officially ruled it a suicide.


The Greenbergs and outside investigators have questioned why authorities allowed the crime scene to be professionally cleaned and sanitized before detectives arrived with a search warrant, according to court records.

“Just as Dr. Osbourne was conducting his autopsy … ultimately concluding Ellen’s death was a homicide, the premises where Ellen was murdered were thoroughly cleaned,” documents state.

The Greenbergs have also questioned why Goldberg’s uncle, James Schwartzman, a prominent Pennsylvania judge, was allowed to enter the apartment and remove a number of Ellen’s belongings, including her computer and cellphone.
 
  • #378
  • #379
Yes. It’s so disturbing.
It is very disturbing-- sounds to me like the fiance was well connected in the legal field--
what a horrible disaster of a case. this dear woman deserved so much better. It is now 14 years since her death and if the parents had not pushed so hard for justice, this case would have been buried as a suicide. It is heart breaking and angering and terribly sad.
 
  • #380
The case has raised numerous questions, including why Sam Goldberg, Greenberg’s fiancé, who found her body, sent a series of angry and demanding text messages before calling 911, and why his uncle, a prominent Pennsylvania judge, was allowed to remove Greenberg’s belongings, including her computer and cellphone, from the apartment.

Why of course, deja vu the Zahau case where Paul Pfingst, the former two-term district attorney was allowed access to the Mansion before the Medical Examiner arrived!

 

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