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IMO, neither Ellen's death nor Rebecca Zahau's were "staged to look like" suicide. They don't look like suicides at all except to all the blind eyes turned in their direction.
PA - Ellen Greenberg, 27, Philly teacher’s brutal stabbing, ruled suicide but possible homicide, Jan 2011
- Thread starter wawashortie
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So very true!!!!!
If we focus on Ellen’s case - I think it’s pretty obvious her killer tried to cover up the stabs to the back of her head by propping her up against the kitchen cabinets. And probably pulling up her hoodie as well.
That said I don’t think it looks much like a suicide anyway, but…
That said I don’t think it looks much like a suicide anyway, but…
IMO - It is completely obvious she was murdered & yet there are posts on this thread of people who believe it was suicide. The same with Rebecca Z, if someone can explain to me how someone naked, with her hands tied behind her back & has a T-shirt stuffed in her mouth, can possibly hang themselves, I’ll be amazed! My mind boggles at these cases!! MOO
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You and me both ------- it is so obvious these women were murdered!!!!
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^^bbm
First, the same applies beyond the state of Pennsylvania.
In a nutshell, it happens when State Statue legally empowers a single party (i.e., Medical Examiner and/or Coroner) to determine a victim's manner of death, and regardless the reason, there is no enforceable law to hold over the Medical Examiner or the Office of the ME to amend the manner of death.
Essentially, a death certificate signed by the ME citing "Suicide" as the manner of death is sufficient to close a death investigation, and insufficient to reopen a criminal and/or homicide investigation, period.
And as Shapiro otherwise indicated during his recent presser, absent "NO NEW EVIDENCE," authorities have no obligation (legal or otherwise) to budge.
In other words, while the family of the victim, and the world following this case, can all agree the original evidence alone indicated the manner of death a homicide, in more than fourteen years, nothing moved this matter until the Medical Examiner (former) who signed EG's death certificate in 2011, ruling her manner of death a "Suicide,"-- submitted to the Court that on January 31, 2025, that information known to him on this date, indicated EG's manner of death should be other than "Suicide."
(Dr. Osbourne, ME, Forensic Pathologist, currently serving as
ME in the state of Florida, further provided in his statement to the Court that he understood he was no longer empowered to amend EG's death certificate because he no longer holds a medical license in the state of PA, and was no longer employed by the Philadelphia ME's Office).
ETA: IMO, whether the investigation be called a coverup or inept police work, I doubt it really matters on this date.
Unfortunately, I think that both the case status where this was deemed a closed death investigation, and the many years that passed, only contributed to the fractured files and tainted evidence, etc., and I don't see anybody ever being prosecuted for the murder of Ellen. Prosecutors simply don't file cases without a confident degree of certainty for a win.
I think having EG's death certificate amended from citing "Suicide" to stating her manner of death as "Undetermined" or "Homicide," has long been the goal of the Greenberg's, and now they will have both-- the legal and public acknowledgement by those who caused them so much grief and despair. They know EG's killer will one day face his true Judge. JMO
just caught this on Nancy Grace...what a travesty of justice...i take it no one is at fault here for erroneous findings. one wonders who is in whos pocket . so happy this has finaly brought to light for the parents who have lost everything bringing to this. cant they do anything with the bumbling ME? has he figured out where you start to stab yourself 20 times and in what order needs be address to bring the end...there are words for this person but will try to be kind ...im sure you can read my mind!
The ME is the least of their problems. It took two months and a stern talking to from the higher ups for the ME to change his mind.
Strange as it seems, his not being one of the good ol boys seems to have been the one thing, aside from the parents’ struggles, that has made the truth come out.
Had he read the signs, and had no conscience, he would have ruled it a suicide from the get go.
@cathyrusson
Exhume the body!
If Ellen Greenberg’s coffin is sealed and there has not been water intrusion — it is possible DNA could still be under her nails.No decisions have been made at this point about whether to exhume the body
Exhume the body!
If Ellen Greenberg’s coffin is sealed and there has not been water intrusion — it is possible DNA could still be under her nails.No decisions have been made at this point about whether to exhume the body
@NancyGrace
Crime Stories: #EllenGreenberg Stabbed 20 Times Ruled Suicide, Parents Force Case Reopened. Listen: https://link.podtrac.com/go8mq00q
Crime Stories: #EllenGreenberg Stabbed 20 Times Ruled Suicide, Parents Force Case Reopened. Listen: https://link.podtrac.com/go8mq00q
@JoScottForensic
Ellen Greenberg Update: ME Says He Was Wrong! NOT Suicide! on Body Bags with Joseph Scott Morgan … https://iheart.com/podcast/1119-body-bags-with-joseph-sco-87375583/episode/ellen-greenberg-update-me-says-he-was-wrong-not-suicide-264503482/?cmp=android_share&sc=android_social_share&pr=false
Ellen Greenberg Update: ME Says He Was Wrong! NOT Suicide! on Body Bags with Joseph Scott Morgan … https://iheart.com/podcast/1119-body-bags-with-joseph-sco-87375583/episode/ellen-greenberg-update-me-says-he-was-wrong-not-suicide-264503482/?cmp=android_share&sc=android_social_share&pr=false
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Yes!!! exhume the body!!!!!
Maybe her hair could hold a clue. Some of it was ripped off and in order to get a clear view of the neck her hair would have to be out of the way.
And at the same time - her rich hair would serve to hide the wounds to the back of her neck. Meaning the perp may have handled her hair substantially.
So chances are there could be an enrichment of perp DNA there.
And at the same time - her rich hair would serve to hide the wounds to the back of her neck. Meaning the perp may have handled her hair substantially.
So chances are there could be an enrichment of perp DNA there.
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I’m having trouble finding the clip but didn’t cousin Kamian show up outside the elevator with a rather large briefcase?
Why would he bring that? I’d think you’d leave that in your car. Or did he take a cab there?
Why would he bring that? I’d think you’d leave that in your car. Or did he take a cab there?
True Crime Garage has released the first part of a triology about Ellen.
www.truecrimegarage.com
Quite good. Many interesting thoughts. Can’t wait to hear the last two.
True Crime Garage
Home page of True Crime Garage . Hosts Nic and the Captain invite you to grab a chair, grab a beer and join them as they talk some true crime. This is no ordinary garage: it’s a rabbit hole of true crime, with a generous supply of alcohol and banter to li
www.truecrimegarage.com
Quite good. Many interesting thoughts. Can’t wait to hear the last two.
Re TCG: I’m rather confused by the colonels assertions that most able bodied men and women would be able to perform these stabs.
He meant it could be done if you hold the blade and use both hands. I am pretty sure that would have given her the “defensive wounds” on her hands, though.
Sure, each stab could possibly be performed - by itself. Even though the 8 cm stab in the back of the neck from an angle that seems to be about 90 degrees (from her neck) seems rather impossible.
But how do you stab yourself with enough force to get through the breastplate with an impacted dura (and spine) and acute haemorrhage around cerebellum?
He meant it could be done if you hold the blade and use both hands. I am pretty sure that would have given her the “defensive wounds” on her hands, though.
Sure, each stab could possibly be performed - by itself. Even though the 8 cm stab in the back of the neck from an angle that seems to be about 90 degrees (from her neck) seems rather impossible.
But how do you stab yourself with enough force to get through the breastplate with an impacted dura (and spine) and acute haemorrhage around cerebellum?
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You're not spamming. It's really unbelievable what happened!
I feel like I'm spamming the Hunt trial because it's just such a cruel crime... makes me so sad that it happened.
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He not only knows it’s a long bladed knife but also that it’s been plunged directly into her heart, apparently.
That 911 call is the most disingenuous sounding 911 call I’ve ever heard in my life. I mean, they tell him to start CPR and he actually responds by asking DO I HAVE TO?
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After listening to the 911 call again, I need to correct my previous post.He not only knows it’s a long bladed knife but also that it’s been plunged directly into her heart, apparently.
That 911 call is the most disingenuous sounding 911 call I’ve ever heard in my life. I mean, they tell him to start CPR and he actually responds by asking DO I HAVE TO?
I’m paraphrasing, but I’ll link the call below.
Dispatcher: Do you know CPR?
He says no.
Dispatcher: Okay I’ll walk you through it until EMS gets there.
He replies “OHHH GOD” in such a way that it’s obvious he doesn’t want to do it.
(You can tell the dispatcher is so surprised by his response that she thinks he’s talking to someone else.)
Dispatcher: Hello?
He responds, “yes, hi. I’m here.”
Dispatcher: You want to do CPR with me over the phone until they get there?
His response is “well I guess I have to, right?”
I mean dude!! You are wasting precious time here. He should have been begging this woman to coach him through CPR, not hemming and hawing about having to do it. And who sees a knife sticking out of someone’s chest and thinks “oh my god, she’s stabbed herself!” He then realizes that maybe he’s said too much, so he says “she fell on her knife!” The whole thing is so bizarre and just sounds so put on to me.
Anyway, I thought I needed to do the responsible thing and correct my mistake.
