PA - Ellen Greenberg, 27, Philly teacher’s brutal stabbing, ruled suicide but possible homicide, Jan 2011

After listening to the 911 call again, I need to correct my previous post.

I’m paraphrasing, but I’ll link the call below.

Dispatcher: Do you know CPR?
He says no.

Dispatcher: Okay I’ll walk you through it until EMS gets there.
He replies “OHHH GOD” in such a way that it’s obvious he doesn’t want to do it.

(You can tell the dispatcher is so surprised by his response that she thinks he’s talking to someone else.)

Dispatcher: Hello?
He responds, “yes, hi. I’m here.”

Dispatcher: You want to do CPR with me over the phone until they get there?
His response is “well I guess I have to, right?”

I mean dude!! You are wasting precious time here. He should have been begging this woman to coach him through CPR, not hemming and hawing about having to do it. And who sees a knife sticking out of someone’s chest and thinks “oh my god, she’s stabbed herself!” He then realizes that maybe he’s said too much, so he says “she fell on her knife!” The whole thing is so bizarre and just sounds so put on to me.


Anyway, I thought I needed to do the responsible thing and correct my mistake.
Yeah it's wild what he says. Poor Ellen dealing with him. :(
 
I am new to this case and this thread, and have a few questions that have likely been asked a few times—

—Her fiancé Sam left the apartment at 4:45 to go to the gym and Ellen’s computer was accessed at 4:46, according to <modsnip - not an approved source> & True Crime Garage. What was the duration of activity on her computer? 4:46…until when?

—Often, people injure their hands when stabbing someone because the knife gets slippery because of the blood. Ellen didn’t have any injuries to her hands, from what I’ve read. And there was no bloody towel or cloth found that could have been used to shield her hand, and little blood on her hands. Did anyone explain that?

—Was Sam checked for injuries or evidence?

—Did Sam explain the older bruises found on her?

I know she had sought help for anxiety and insomnia. She explained that it was her work that was stressful, however she had asked her family if she could move in with them. That makes it sound as if her relationship was also an issue, despite denying it was.

She was a teacher, and I think it’s possible she may have been concerned about being transparent about what exactly her issues were, imo, because she may have thought she might jeopardize her license or her reputation as a teacher.
 
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I am new to this case and this thread, and have a few questions that have likely been asked a few times—

—Her fiancé Sam left the apartment at 4:45 to go to the gym and Ellen’s computer was accessed at 4:46, according to <modsnip - not an approved source> & True Crime Garage. What was the duration of activity on her computer? 4:46…until when?

—Often, people injure their hands when stabbing someone because the knife gets slippery because of the blood. Ellen didn’t have any injuries to her hands, from what I’ve read. And there was no bloody towel or cloth found that could have been used to shield her hand, and little blood on her hands. Did anyone explain that?

—Was Sam checked for injuries or evidence?

—Did Sam explain the older bruises found on her?

I know she had sought help for anxiety and insomnia. She explained that it was her work that was stressful, however she had asked her family if she could move in with them. That makes it sound as if her relationship was also an issue, despite denying it was.

She was a teacher, and I think it’s possible she may have been concerned about being transparent about what exactly her issues were, imo, because she may have thought she might jeopardize her license or her reputation as a teacher.

Unfortunately, this is the only thread for this case dating back to 2011 in part because LE very early ruled no foul play and the coroner ruled EG's death a suicide. In other words, nothing to see here folks...move along.

Under the circumstances, not much in the way of WS approved sources to cite from. The lawsuits by EG's parents helped generate MSM coverage but not sure your questions have been answered by approved sources. The thread is only 21 pages so you might try using the search function. Sorry...

Link to Philadelphia Inquirer 2019 article:

A Philly teacher’s brutal stabbing has experts at odds: Was it a suicide or homicide?

On January 26, 2011, Ellen Greenberg, 27, was engaged to Samuel Goldberg, 28, when he found her dead in the apartment they shared in Philadelphia’s Manayunk section.

The Medical Examiner’s report states that Ellen was stabbed 20 times—10 of the stab wounds were to the back of her neck. It also details 11 bruises found on the right side of her body on the arms, abdomen and legs.

The Medical Examiner’s office ruled that the manner of death was a homicide. A few weeks later the police department determined that there was no foul play and in a rare event on March 7, 2011, the Medical Examiner’s office changed it’s ruling from homicide to suicide. The case was closed by the Philly PD, with the final ruling listed as suicide.

For the past 8 years, Ellen’s parents have tried to get answers- what really happened to Ellen?
 
I am new to this case and this thread, and have a few questions that have likely been asked a few times—

—Her fiancé Sam left the apartment at 4:45 to go to the gym and Ellen’s computer was accessed at 4:46, according to <modsnip -= not an approved source> & True Crime Garage. What was the duration of activity on her computer? 4:46…until when?

Not 100% sure.

—Often, people injure their hands when stabbing someone because the knife gets slippery because of the blood. Ellen didn’t have any injuries to her hands, from what I’ve read. And there was no bloody towel or cloth found that could have been used to shield her hand, and little blood on her hands. Did anyone explain that?

Not to my knowledge.

—Was Sam checked for injuries or evidence?

He was taken to the police station. What happened there is unknown. My guess is not much.

—Did Sam explain the older bruises found on her?

Unlikely.

I know she had sought help for anxiety and insomnia. She explained that it was her work that was stressful, however she had asked her family if she could move in with them. That makes it sound as if her relationship was also an issue, despite denying it was.

Nobody seems to know. It might just be that she needed to let go of her job because it made her frustrated and she may have felt it would be easier to be alone for a while - not because of Sam necessarily but perhaps because she was recognising that the work situation and everything associated with it was making her really uncomfortable. She may have thought that quitting her job and no longer having a salary would lead to that Sam and her would have to get rid of the apartment.

There’s a question as to whether Sam was gainfully employed at the time. We don’t know. We do know they both came from families more than capable of assisting them, but children tend to want to live up to their parents’ expectations.

She was a teacher, and I think it’s possible she may have been concerned about being transparent about what exactly her issues were, imo, because she may have thought she might jeopardize her license or her reputation as a teacher.

Apparently one child in her class tried to choke themselves with a sock, Ellen secured extra support for the child, but the child’s parents refused to accept. As per former FBI employees of ”The Consult”.

I can imagine that something like that could make a new teacher <modsnip> quite frustrated. It’s just scary to be in charge of a child as troubled as that and not be able to help <modsnip>

And I agree with you - the regulations regarding this might have made Ellen less than forthcoming when talking to a psychiatrist, who may be obligated to report when a child’s well being is seriously in jeopardy.

IMHOO
 
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I think I know the answer, but did the police do any kind of investigation on the boyfriend?

For example, did SG have a pattern of calling his cousin/cousins father? Was his cousin someone he spoke to a lot or was the call to him kind of out of the blue.

Also, I read in thread that SG started dating his new wife 10 months after Ellen's death. Did they ever establish if he may have been conducting an affair before this? Check phone records maybe?
 
I think I know the answer, but did the police do any kind of investigation on the boyfriend?

For example, did SG have a pattern of calling his cousin/cousins father? Was his cousin someone he spoke to a lot or was the call to him kind of out of the blue.

Also, I read in thread that SG started dating his new wife 10 months after Ellen's death. Did they ever establish if he may have been conducting an affair before this? Check phone records maybe?

Hard to say how much work that LE put into SG's alibi etc. The scene wasn't sealed until (IIRC) days later, giving him/ someone plenty of time to clean up any evidence that might have countered the suicide theory.

As per the Consult podcast, the percentage of suicides carried out in this manner was vanishingly small -- and I'm not sure they filtered for gender, which might have lowered that % still further.

It seems clear to me that EG's death was suspicious -- but given the paucity of evidence remaining that can be evaluated, what can be done now? Such a sad and frustrating case.
 
Hard to say how much work that LE put into SG's alibi etc. The scene wasn't sealed until (IIRC) days later, giving him/ someone plenty of time to clean up any evidence that might have countered the suicide theory.

As per the Consult podcast, the percentage of suicides carried out in this manner was vanishingly small -- and I'm not sure they filtered for gender, which might have lowered that % still further.

It seems clear to me that EG's death was suspicious -- but given the paucity of evidence remaining that can be evaluated, what can be done now? Such a sad and frustrating case.

I hope they can eventually charge the murderer (because I believe it's murder). I also hope they thoroughly investigate why this cover-up happened (because I believe there was some collusion that happened to rule this a suicide, release the scene without properly investigating and finding evidence, and then refusing to reopen the case for years). There are multipe guilty parties who have contributed (purposefully, imo) to this murder remaining unsolved. MOO.
 
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I have been ambivalent about Nancy Grace over the years, but no one can doubt how much she feels for victims. No one is a greater victim than Ellen Greenberg: First she was a victim of a murderer- then she was a victim of a very messed up system which involved police, the coroner, medical examiners, district attorneys and on and on. Of course she was murdered- Why this case became deemed a suicide leads one to wonder about a cover-up and I am not a conspiracy theorist.

It is great that Nancy Grace is wrote a book about this case- bring this case to the light of day!
 

NG did summat good!

This is such a hearbreaking and maddening case -- so much that was suspicious about the timeline, circumstances, treatment of the crime scene and subsequent back-and-forth determinations by authorities about how her death should be categorized...

All that, along with those authorities' apparent disinterest in the case -- and seemingly at times active hostility towards her family and friends' querying of the suicide/ closed case claims.

Anything to keep EG in the public eye, and to maintain pressure to reinvestigate the case is helpful IMO.
 
FEB. 3 2025

NEW DEVELOPMENTS IN THE ELLEN GREENBERG CASE. PHILADELPHIA OFFICIALS REACHED AN AGREEMENT TO REOPEN THE TEACHER’S DEATH INVESTIGATION​


New developments in the Ellen Greenberg case. Lamb McErlane partner Joseph R. Podraza, Jr. and attorney William H. Trask represent Ellen Greenberg’s parents.

Ellen Greenberg’s parents and Philadelphia officials reached an agreement to reopen the teacher’s death investigation more than 14 years after she was found stabbed to death in her Manayunk apartment.

In 2011 Ellen Greenberg was found dead with 20 stab wounds. Her death was initially ruled a homicide, then reclassified as a suicide. The pathologist who ruled Ellen Greenberg’s 2011 death by 20 stab wounds a homicide then switched it to suicide, now believes her death “should be designated as something other than suicide.”

“Finally, the issuing pathologist has changed his position 180 degrees. It’s consistent with what the Greenbergs have been contending all along,” said Lamb McErlane attorney Joseph R. Podraza, Jr. in a recent Philadelphia Inquirer article.


Here are the links to recent articles regarding the Greenberg case:

 
FEB. 3 2025

NEW DEVELOPMENTS IN THE ELLEN GREENBERG CASE. PHILADELPHIA OFFICIALS REACHED AN AGREEMENT TO REOPEN THE TEACHER’S DEATH INVESTIGATION​


New developments in the Ellen Greenberg case. Lamb McErlane partner Joseph R. Podraza, Jr. and attorney William H. Trask represent Ellen Greenberg’s parents.

Ellen Greenberg’s parents and Philadelphia officials reached an agreement to reopen the teacher’s death investigation more than 14 years after she was found stabbed to death in her Manayunk apartment.

In 2011 Ellen Greenberg was found dead with 20 stab wounds. Her death was initially ruled a homicide, then reclassified as a suicide. The pathologist who ruled Ellen Greenberg’s 2011 death by 20 stab wounds a homicide then switched it to suicide, now believes her death “should be designated as something other than suicide.”

“Finally, the issuing pathologist has changed his position 180 degrees. It’s consistent with what the Greenbergs have been contending all along,” said Lamb McErlane attorney Joseph R. Podraza, Jr. in a recent Philadelphia Inquirer article.


Here are the links to recent articles regarding the Greenberg case:

Better late than never-- her parents have never given up--- otherwise this case would never have seen the light of day-----I know we all wish them the best- hopefully the truth will come out now!
 
“Finally, the issuing pathologist has changed his position 180 degrees. It’s consistent with what the Greenbergs have been contending all along,” said Lamb McErlane attorney Joseph R. Podraza, Jr. in a recent Philadelphia Inquirer article.
^^rsbm

Whether or not appointed or elected, the unchecked power given to the Coroner and/or Medical Examiner in every state across the country needs to be addressed and rewritten to avoid what happened here and in other cases beyond PA.

More recently, a County in Washington State is going to pay their Coroner to resign (quicker than a recall election) where another injustice exists for the family of Hien Trung Hua.

 
That was 2 months ago. Wonder what’s up.
Yep, wondered the same. Crickets.

Nothing makes any sense about the "crime scene" and the story provided by bf, the way he distanced himself from everything Ellen, who he supposedly loved and planned to marry.

Wonder if he called off their engagement that fateful day, which caused an argument?

First time, I heard about him dating his wife 10 months after EG's death. That's interesting.

moo
 
is there any association between gov shapirro fire ang this case?...hes in it as thick as you can get....jat
 
Okay what are they trying to cover up. I don't single person that would kill themselves by stabbing themselves in the neck 10 times and 10 more times on other parts of the body. I feel as if you would have to have a mental disorder and be legally insane to do something like that.
 
Okay what are they trying to cover up. I don't single person that would kill themselves by stabbing themselves in the neck 10 times and 10 more times on other parts of the body. I feel as if you would have to have a mental disorder and be legally insane to do something like that.
Indeed. If it’s even physically possible given some of the angles and the fact that few if any women have successfully stabbed themselves through the breast plate.

And nobody has done it with a bleeding liver, ruptured dural sack and a cerebellum bleed.
 
I read Nancy grace’s new book ”what happened to Ellen?”

I do like it, but it’s a bit of a hard listen since it’s lengthy and she keeps her trademark style.

Until the end of the book, when she suddenly sounds like a very sad angel.

There is a lot there and I have to digest. One thing though - it seems the in-laws to be were a huge problem for Ellen. Very sad.

I started thinking of the save the date cards going out right before it happened. Was there a loon dead set on Sam or Ellen on the guest list?

I know what the most likely option is. But I still wonder.

Does anyone else think wearing the uggs inside is a bit indicative of her having been out recently? Out with the trash?
 
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