GUILTY PA - Ellen Robb, 49, beaten to death, Montgomery County, 22 Dec 2006
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luthersmama
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I'm at work so I have a fully functional keyboard!!
A few thoughts:
I think the reason there is not an arrest yet is that Castor is waiting to get evidence that would solidly justify a charge of 1st degree murder. Right now if the case went to trial with what we know, it would probably be a manslaughter or murder 2 or 3 case. Castor may want to develop evidence of premeditation, which he does not yet have. More forensic accounting and discussions with acquaintances perhaps. Key students and employees may still be away from Penn and have not been interviewed. Maybe the forensic computer geeks have been away and haven't been able to complete their analysis of his computer. If Castor can get enough to indict on 1st degree murder he will have a much better shot at a plea bargain. He might also be planning to convene a grand jury
As to the dna, I suspect that something was found, like skin under her fingernails or blood other than hers at the scene. Over the holidays the lab determined that the dna did not match hers. Now the next step is to find a match. I would rather have the lab running on a full tank of gas than have this testing done over the holidays. Probably it was prudent to wait.
About the dog: it is a small dog. I am guessing it might be in its crate that time of day and out of the way. It wouldn't be really loud in any event. There are only two neighbors whose homes are positioned so that a frantically barking little dog would be heard from inside the Robb home.
The gaming theory stuff is interesting, but to me it is just another way of explaining the same old story: husband has the upper hand, wife gets fed up, wife wants out, husband kills her. You can use whatever jargon you want, but his motive isn't anything special. Just the usual combination of money and control IMHO.
I had not heard that she had money of her own. I find that surprising because it appears to me that they were living rather below the standards that his salary would allow. That is a tiny house for two estranged people to be sharing. But maybe they are just really frugal. It is still very strange. If they could get along well enough to live in the same house, they should be able to get along well enough to share custody even if living apart. I don't understand why anyone would live like that. Was he afraid that Ellen would get a boyfriend? They could easily have afforded for Rafael to have an apartment near campus. It just seems so very creepy!!!
I am still interested in the fact that her name was not on the deed for several years after "they" bought the house. And his use of two surnames is creepy. I don't get it.
A few thoughts:
I think the reason there is not an arrest yet is that Castor is waiting to get evidence that would solidly justify a charge of 1st degree murder. Right now if the case went to trial with what we know, it would probably be a manslaughter or murder 2 or 3 case. Castor may want to develop evidence of premeditation, which he does not yet have. More forensic accounting and discussions with acquaintances perhaps. Key students and employees may still be away from Penn and have not been interviewed. Maybe the forensic computer geeks have been away and haven't been able to complete their analysis of his computer. If Castor can get enough to indict on 1st degree murder he will have a much better shot at a plea bargain. He might also be planning to convene a grand jury
As to the dna, I suspect that something was found, like skin under her fingernails or blood other than hers at the scene. Over the holidays the lab determined that the dna did not match hers. Now the next step is to find a match. I would rather have the lab running on a full tank of gas than have this testing done over the holidays. Probably it was prudent to wait.
About the dog: it is a small dog. I am guessing it might be in its crate that time of day and out of the way. It wouldn't be really loud in any event. There are only two neighbors whose homes are positioned so that a frantically barking little dog would be heard from inside the Robb home.
The gaming theory stuff is interesting, but to me it is just another way of explaining the same old story: husband has the upper hand, wife gets fed up, wife wants out, husband kills her. You can use whatever jargon you want, but his motive isn't anything special. Just the usual combination of money and control IMHO.
I had not heard that she had money of her own. I find that surprising because it appears to me that they were living rather below the standards that his salary would allow. That is a tiny house for two estranged people to be sharing. But maybe they are just really frugal. It is still very strange. If they could get along well enough to live in the same house, they should be able to get along well enough to share custody even if living apart. I don't understand why anyone would live like that. Was he afraid that Ellen would get a boyfriend? They could easily have afforded for Rafael to have an apartment near campus. It just seems so very creepy!!!
I am still interested in the fact that her name was not on the deed for several years after "they" bought the house. And his use of two surnames is creepy. I don't get it.
lisafremont
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Hedidit said:
Really? What more can you tell us?
Actually I can't as I have given a statement. But you said a lot of things that are correct. HE is the frugal one beyond belief. And extremely controlling. So, you've guessed correctly on some things. I also wonder if being from Israel where the culture is very different for women if 'not' being a subservient wife was an issue with him.
lisafremont
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Hedidit, are you saying that I seem knowledgeable in the legal field? Thanks! I'll take that as a real compliment, a reflection of years of reading and also observing trials, but it's not from any real legal connection.
You say you have given a statement, to authorities, I will presume, and that implies to me that you are a witness of some kind and that LE has asked you not to discuss the case with reporters or the public, is that correct?
You are either a relative or maybe a coworker or neighbor, someone who knows both of them. Very very interesting.
It is my fervent hope that when you are able that you will tell us as much as you wish to, as much as you can. I am certain I am not the only one interested. So please stick around, Hedidit. Such an interesting hat!
You say you have given a statement, to authorities, I will presume, and that implies to me that you are a witness of some kind and that LE has asked you not to discuss the case with reporters or the public, is that correct?
You are either a relative or maybe a coworker or neighbor, someone who knows both of them. Very very interesting.
It is my fervent hope that when you are able that you will tell us as much as you wish to, as much as you can. I am certain I am not the only one interested. So please stick around, Hedidit. Such an interesting hat!
, I would love to know if you think she was a victim of domestic violence.
Gracelin
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http://abclocal.go.com/wpvi/story?section=local&id=4901958
Rafael Robb tells Action News he did not do it
UPPER MERION, Pa. - January 3, 2007 - A University of Pennsylvania professor was named a suspect in the murder of his wife, who was found bludgeoned to death in their home.
Also on 6abc:
Discuss This Story | More Local News | Get 6abctogo | RSS Feeds Circumstantial evidence "very strongly" indicates Rafael Robb may have had a role in the slaying of his 49-year-old wife, Ellen, Montgomery County District Attorney Bruce Castor said at a news conference.
"Everything I have seen points in the direction of Dr. Robb," Castor said.
The woman's battered body was found inside the estranged couple's home on December 22nd.
Prosecutors on Wednesday took DNA samples and fingerprints from Robb to compare them with evidence found after Ellen Robb's body was found in the kitchen of their house in Upper Merion Township.
He found his wife's body, but told Action News that he did not kill his wife. Despite his denials, investigators believe Robb attacked his wife while she was wrapping Christmas gifts at the kitchen table, and then tried to make it look like a burglary.
Investigators say it was a burglary scene like no other. Ellen Robb had been viciously beaten. Her face was crushed. Psychiatric experts told police "this was a blitz attack that occurred without warning."
Rafael Robb tells Action News he did not do it
UPPER MERION, Pa. - January 3, 2007 - A University of Pennsylvania professor was named a suspect in the murder of his wife, who was found bludgeoned to death in their home.
Also on 6abc:
Discuss This Story | More Local News | Get 6abctogo | RSS Feeds Circumstantial evidence "very strongly" indicates Rafael Robb may have had a role in the slaying of his 49-year-old wife, Ellen, Montgomery County District Attorney Bruce Castor said at a news conference.
"Everything I have seen points in the direction of Dr. Robb," Castor said.
The woman's battered body was found inside the estranged couple's home on December 22nd.
Prosecutors on Wednesday took DNA samples and fingerprints from Robb to compare them with evidence found after Ellen Robb's body was found in the kitchen of their house in Upper Merion Township.
He found his wife's body, but told Action News that he did not kill his wife. Despite his denials, investigators believe Robb attacked his wife while she was wrapping Christmas gifts at the kitchen table, and then tried to make it look like a burglary.
Investigators say it was a burglary scene like no other. Ellen Robb had been viciously beaten. Her face was crushed. Psychiatric experts told police "this was a blitz attack that occurred without warning."
luthersmama
Well-Known Member
This bit is interesting:
"He found his wife's body, but told Action News that he did not kill his wife. Despite his denials, investigators believe Robb attacked his wife while she was wrapping Christmas gifts at the kitchen table, and then tried to make it look like a burglary.
Investigators say it was a burglary scene like no other. Ellen Robb had been viciously beaten. Her face was crushed.
Psychiatric experts told police "this was a blitz attack that occurred without warning."
Investigators say a window on a back door had been broken to make it look like a burglary, but it would seem unlikely that Ellen Robb would have remained at the table after hearing the breaking glass.
When Robb called police, he told them that his wife was dead because her head was cracked. Seasoned investigators initially thought she had been shot in the face, and only later learned that she had been beaten to death. "
http://abclocal.go.com/wpvi/story?section=local&id=4901958
Someone hit her right smack in the face. I had assumed before that the first blow was from behind. Ick!! The small diameter of the weapon makes sense to me. It could be a tire iron or tool or something else that is common. One of those things for sharpening kitchen knives perhaps? I was having trouble with the notion of a piece of pipe just being close at hand.
The clerk at the Asian food store didn't see him when he said he was there. Hmmm.
Hedidit: is Olivia with her uncle? I hope she is doing OK.
"He found his wife's body, but told Action News that he did not kill his wife. Despite his denials, investigators believe Robb attacked his wife while she was wrapping Christmas gifts at the kitchen table, and then tried to make it look like a burglary.
Investigators say it was a burglary scene like no other. Ellen Robb had been viciously beaten. Her face was crushed.
Psychiatric experts told police "this was a blitz attack that occurred without warning."
Investigators say a window on a back door had been broken to make it look like a burglary, but it would seem unlikely that Ellen Robb would have remained at the table after hearing the breaking glass.
When Robb called police, he told them that his wife was dead because her head was cracked. Seasoned investigators initially thought she had been shot in the face, and only later learned that she had been beaten to death. "
http://abclocal.go.com/wpvi/story?section=local&id=4901958
Someone hit her right smack in the face. I had assumed before that the first blow was from behind. Ick!! The small diameter of the weapon makes sense to me. It could be a tire iron or tool or something else that is common. One of those things for sharpening kitchen knives perhaps? I was having trouble with the notion of a piece of pipe just being close at hand.
The clerk at the Asian food store didn't see him when he said he was there. Hmmm.
Hedidit: is Olivia with her uncle? I hope she is doing OK.
raisincharlie
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This guy wants police to believe she was sitting at her kitchen table and never heard the window in the door being busted out ? He also wants police to believe that no glass from that window was tracked into the house after the murderer entered ? He may be into game theory - but he's a loser IMO. This is IMO one seriously deraved person - no wonder the police suspect him.Gracelin said:
luthersmama
Well-Known Member
I had another good think about this case while marinating in the hot tub.
I really think that Castor is going to go with a grand jury. Olivia would be a witness, and she would not be subject to abusive cross examination. Likewise the neighbors and family members can tell all. It will be low key and we won't hear a thing until the indictment is handed down.
This is, IMHO, his best shot at getting a 1st degree charge on track to go to trial. Once he has the indictment, a new game will be on the table. The prof will have to consider risking the death penalty vs. pleading down. A first degree indictment may be the very best play in the book if Castor can also certify it as a death penalty case. Gives him a lot of leverage that a 2nd degree or manslaughter indictment doesn't give him.
Another interesting wrinkle here is that Pennsylvania has recently adopted a rule that says that if a couple is in the process of a divorce, and one of them dies, the divorce proceeds forward despite the death. In other words, the survivor has to go through the whole equitable distribution thing. They don't get to stop the divorce and keep all the goodies. The heirs of the deceased spouse get the equitable distribution money.
In the cases I am aware of, one partner (the wife in both cases) had actually filed for divorce before she died. Whether Ellen had gotten that far is unclear. If not, the court might not be willing to extend the rule to someone who had indicated interest in getting a divorce but had not taken formal steps.
IF this rule applies in Ellen's case, her family may be able to get the family court to prohibit Raffi from using up all of the marital assets in his defense. Otherwise Olivia could end up penniless as well as motherless.
I really think that Castor is going to go with a grand jury. Olivia would be a witness, and she would not be subject to abusive cross examination. Likewise the neighbors and family members can tell all. It will be low key and we won't hear a thing until the indictment is handed down.
This is, IMHO, his best shot at getting a 1st degree charge on track to go to trial. Once he has the indictment, a new game will be on the table. The prof will have to consider risking the death penalty vs. pleading down. A first degree indictment may be the very best play in the book if Castor can also certify it as a death penalty case. Gives him a lot of leverage that a 2nd degree or manslaughter indictment doesn't give him.
Another interesting wrinkle here is that Pennsylvania has recently adopted a rule that says that if a couple is in the process of a divorce, and one of them dies, the divorce proceeds forward despite the death. In other words, the survivor has to go through the whole equitable distribution thing. They don't get to stop the divorce and keep all the goodies. The heirs of the deceased spouse get the equitable distribution money.
In the cases I am aware of, one partner (the wife in both cases) had actually filed for divorce before she died. Whether Ellen had gotten that far is unclear. If not, the court might not be willing to extend the rule to someone who had indicated interest in getting a divorce but had not taken formal steps.
IF this rule applies in Ellen's case, her family may be able to get the family court to prohibit Raffi from using up all of the marital assets in his defense. Otherwise Olivia could end up penniless as well as motherless.
lisafremont
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Ooh, I like this rule. Kinda takes some of the incentive out of murder, don't it??
luthersmama
Well-Known Member
lisafremont said:
It will change all sorts of things. We have a case in my office where the wife filed for divorce and then learned she had terminal cancer. She made out a new will leaving everything to her daughter. The husband figured he would just wait out the grim reaper and get the whole enchilada. He stalled as much as possible, thinking that he would do better with the wife dead.
WRONG!
The wife eventually died, but the divorce is proceeding. He isn't going to get the whole enchilada. He is very annoyed, to say the least.
Very few of these cases have gone forward since the law changed. Most lawyers probably don't even know about it. Even fewer controlling prick husbands know.
I won't claim for a second that I could grasp Game Theory, but if this guy did kill his wife and used principles of his theory in planning it and executing it, he's not very bright for a genius. At the very least, when a spouse is murdered (whether seeking a divorce or not), the surviving spouse is always the first person investigated. But, sadly, he may have simply reacted as many non-geniuses do and killed his wife in a cold rage because she defied him.
Sort of reminds me of the case of a "brillant" chemist (I think) who poisoned his neighbors (and killed one of them) because of some dispute. IIRC, he somehow poisoned a beverage that only one of the people in the house drank. There was a story on CTV about it. I got the feeling that he did it because he thougt no-one would ever be able to trace to him and because he believed his superior intelligence justified his actions.
Sort of reminds me of the case of a "brillant" chemist (I think) who poisoned his neighbors (and killed one of them) because of some dispute. IIRC, he somehow poisoned a beverage that only one of the people in the house drank. There was a story on CTV about it. I got the feeling that he did it because he thougt no-one would ever be able to trace to him and because he believed his superior intelligence justified his actions.
What you missed is that her keyboard is missing a key. Go back and read her posts, and guess *which* key that is?AlwaysShocked said:
She even mentions she needs to fix her keyboard, that it's driving her nuts.Ah, I see you got your key replaced luthersmaomma? Yay!
There was another case in which a woman and her husband poisoned their neighbors by putting a carton of soda on the neighbor's porch (in the days of glass soda bottles and bottle cap removers) knowing they would think they had forgotten to take it in. They killed or injured some of the family that way, one of them only a baby. I think it was at a Sunday dinner, or maybe a Holiday meal that they ingested the soda. A family gathering at the least. They also were arrogant enough to present a *very* similar scenario at a murder mystery weekend as a plot for the participants to solve. It took a lot of finesse to remove the cap, poison the soda and replace it in such a way that to the naked eye it looked untampered with. The tool marks still showed under the microscope, and were matched to the tools used. They were caught and I believe convicted. I cannot bring up the names of those involved though, but I know CourtTV's Crime Library had a story about the case. I am not having luck finding it atm.FFWifey said:
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