PA - Five girls dead, 5 injured in Amish school shooting, 2 Oct 2006

[ljwf22]

I am so sad for the families and these children tonight. I was thinking as I put my youngest child to bed with nighttime prayers--how upsetting it must be for these Amish families just to be in the hospitals--it is upsetting for anyone but even more so for them--

It is an awful thing to kill a child and at the same time, steal the peace and trust of childhood from so many other children.

I agree wholeheartedly. This community will never be the same. To be violated by the actions of this one sick creep.............

 

[Sassygerl]

have there been any updates on the condition of the children?

One little girl has died This all makes me so sad

 

[ljwf22]

Very true, Billy. People have an overly romantic view of the Amish. They have plenty of human issues and problems, just like everyone else. Their way of life certainly is interesting and people like to think of it as sweet and quaint, but for the girls in particular it can be pretty difficult.

Imagine not even having a high school diploma as an option. You can look forward to marriage, babies and farming, or maybe working in a quilt shop or other retail store. That's it. No matter what you might be interested in.

They can go on to high school, they just have to leave home to do it. I've seen many smart and talented Amish kids go through my school. It's the 'English' in me that thinks "what a waste" but I've been around long enough to see that they are usually very happy with their lives. I don't think shunning a member who has left is as harsh as in the past, although it still happens. As you can tell, I really respect the Amish culture. I've been around them all my life. When I was very small, we had Amish babysitters (more like nannies actually, they stayed with us during the week).

 

[kcksum]

They can go on to high school, they just have to leave home to do it. I've seen many smart and talented Amish kids go through my school. It's the 'English' in me that thinks "what a waste" but I've been around long enough to see that they are usually very happy with their lives. I don't think shunning a member who has left is as harsh as in the past, although it still happens. As you can tell, I really respect the Amish culture. I've been around them all my life. When I was very small, we had Amish babysitters (more like nannies actually, they stayed with us during the week).

thank you for your kind words about the amish. Regardless of any criminal activity in their community's we may or may not know about, that school certaintly didn't do anything to bring this on. (i'm not saying those of you pointing out the faults in the amish way of life are saying that either before everyone jumps all over me)
I just kinda feel like our time would be better served picking apart the customs and behaviors of the sick freak who put a bullet in the head of 11 innocent children this morning, rather than picking apart a faith that has existed peacfully in this country since its near inception. For whatever reason, these people choose to live and raise their children in a way that they think is wonderful and perfect for their children.....they're their children. They may have incest issues, but so does every other culture and religion in this country. They may inbreed, as do many other religious and cultural groups in this country. They may shelter their children and shun modern ways of living....so be it. In the end, the amish will still be amish, we'll all still be who we are, and a terrible thing still would have occured.
I have seen three indepth news journals on the "amish way of life" tonight.......why do we feel the need to put these people under a huge microscope and analyze who they are because some nut job decided to pick them to slaughter this morning? Why do the major news networks feel like an explanation needs to be given for "their" way of life? I want to see news journals on the killers family, and the killers life, and why he chose to live and end his life the way he did!!!! What about the killers faith?
He's the odd one. He's the out of place one. He's the antisocial one. He's the one who shunned normal customs. He's the one we should be putting under a microscope to dissect.....not the amish faith.

 

[Texana]

It's much easier and much more picturesque to show the Amish. And showing the victims and their homes...always popular with the media.

The scariest thing about this shooter is perhaps how normal he looked...how normal his home life and family appeared--

 

[kcksum]

It's much easier and much more picturesque to show the Amish. And showing the victims and their homes...always popular with the media.

The scariest thing about this shooter is perhaps how normal he looked...how normal his home life and family appeared--

you're ablosutely right about the media focusing on the victims which is ok, I just hate to see people scrutinizing the victim's way of life.We saw the same thing happen with the mormon faith with Elizabeth Smart.
I would hope this might spur some discussion on how so called normal people can hide some pretty horrific thoughts and ideas. How a man with a daughter that's 7, can walk her to school, and then execute girls her own age? How does a man get to that demented of a space, and stay their long enough to write notes, and plan such an asassination?

 

[Sabal]

On Fox News, it said "Miller said investigators were looking into the possibility the attack may have been related to the death of one of Roberts' own children. According to an obituary, Roberts and his wife, Marie, lost a daughter shortly after she was born in 1997."

What in the world could that have to do with what he did today? As heartbreaking as losing a child is, they're not the first parents to lose a child and other fathers who've lost a child don't go berserk & shoot innocent little girls !!! Sometimes I get very upset at the description of "possible motives" after a nightmarish, sick, hate-filled rage crime like this. He was psycho!! Don't know what made him that way but it probably didn't happen over losing a child (9 years later).

 

[Beyond Belief]

I am wondering if there had been a death when he was 12. Reactions to death can come looming back at you years later. I suffered terribly from family deaths and didn't understand what was happening to me at all.

I kept feeling like I shouldn't be taking it so hard, but I will outline it for you.
A sister in law had one child die of crib death back in the sixties, then one son had a serious brain tumor age 12, while he survived, his older brother 16 had a heart attack at a boyscout meeting at the church, he died, then the brain tumor kept coming back, years of operations, until he was 21, he died after the last operation, three months later these boys father died from the stress age 45, then three months later, the grandfather died. I was absolutely lost for the reasoning. Other family members went on with life like nothing ever happened. Me I just couldn't deal with it. The stress with a death does strange and unusual things to people. Oh and then my x husband, the uncle to these boys, decided it should have been him that died, more stress, and shot himself, he died too.

I just wonder about this guy and what triggered this.

 

[Shadow205]

On Fox News, it said "Miller said investigators were looking into the possibility the attack may have been related to the death of one of Roberts' own children. According to an obituary, Roberts and his wife, Marie, lost a daughter shortly after she was born in 1997."

What in the world could that have to do with what he did today? As heartbreaking as losing a child is, they're not the first parents to lose a child and other fathers who've lost a child don't go berserk & shoot innocent little girls !!! Sometimes I get very upset at the description of "possible motives" after a nightmarish, sick, hate-filled rage crime like this. He was psycho!! Don't know what made him that way but it probably didn't happen over losing a child (9 years later).

In no way am I trying to justify his actions but if that is true...could his wife possibly have had an Amish midwife for the birth? And if that is true could he have blamed her for the death of the child?

 

[SieSie]

I was born and raised in Lancaster County and was so sad to hear this news today! My heart goes out to everyone affected by all of these horrendous school shootings. It's so sad that kids can't even be safe at school anymore.

I found the following snippet and thought I'd include it in this thread. Forgive me if it's already been posted, I'm just trying to get caught up.

Roberts was not Amish and appeared to have nothing against the Amish community, Miller said. Instead, Miller said, he apparently picked the school because it was close by, there were girls there, and it had little or no security.

The attack bore similarities to a deadly school shooting last week in Bailey, Colo., but Miller said he believed the Pennsylvania attack was not a copycat crime. "I really believe this was about this individual and what was going on inside his head," he said.

lancasteronline.com

 

[SadieMae]

Headshots, probably very grave.

Those poor babies! What a coward to execute innocents....I could just cry, but I'm still praying for them.

 

[SadieMae]

I am wondering if there had been a death when he was 12. Reactions to death can come looming back at you years later. I suffered terribly from family deaths and didn't understand what was happening to me at all.

I kept feeling like I shouldn't be taking it so hard, but I will outline it for you.
A sister in law had one child die of crib death back in the sixties, then one son had a serious brain tumor age 12, while he survived, his older brother 16 had a heart attack at a boyscout meeting at the church, he died, then the brain tumor kept coming back, years of operations, until he was 21, he died after the last operation, three months later these boys father died from the stress age 45, then three months later, the grandfather died. I was absolutely lost for the reasoning. Other family members went on with life like nothing ever happened. Me I just couldn't deal with it. The stress with a death does strange and unusual things to people. Oh and then my x husband, the uncle to these boys, decided it should have been him that died, more stress, and shot himself, he died too.

I just wonder about this guy and what triggered this.

Oh my gosh BB...that IS a lot for a family to deal with. I guess some had stronger faith than others. I don't think it's not that other family members didn't care and just went on with life, but accepted God's will. I think many of us think we've been given just a bit more than we can handle, but somehow we make it through day by day. I suppose some people don't have the same outlook as I do, and feel all is lost.

 

[scandi]

"These people" don't participate much in local government. A few do, but the decisions about whether or not to have a local police force are made by the township supervisors, usually based on budgetary concerns. The Lancaster County townships populated by Amish have few, if any, Amish in their governing bodies. The towns we are talking about are no longer predominantly "dutch".

This guy was different though Luther. His dad was a corporal in the Lancaster police department, or maybe he still is. They didn't make that part clear. I think he is still there the way they gave the report.



Scandi

 

[scandi]

I agree wholeheartedly. This community will never be the same. To be violated by the actions of this one sick creep.............

I had the thought today that the bldg will never be used as a school again.


Scandi

 

[scandi]

I still think he executed, or tried to, all the girls in the school because he didn't want them to grow up into grown up Amish women.

I know it sounds sick, but he did have an argument with 3 Amish mothers early around 8am today. It might have stemmed from the traumatic 20 year old event, the argument I mean. He might have been off kilt in some way and the women were vocal and stated their feelings. He already had it planned and knew this was the day, so it didn't matter. He maybe never would have been disagreeable with them, but this day it didn't matter and he let it all out.

The disagreement was reported by a local whose daughter is married to one of the ambulance drivers, and their info has proved good so far. Through his daughter, this witness was the first to let us know {and the media as well} that he had lined them up against the wall and shot them all.

It was reported live on CNN, and it was as dramatic as when Anderson Cooper was covering the Sago mine disaster, and learned while on the air that those who everyone had heard were alive were all really dead with only one survivor. I'll never forget that!

Remember your prayers tonight! :blowkiss: Scandi

 

[poco]

I was born and raised in Lancaster County and was so sad to hear this news today!

.... me too, SieSie - have we discussed this before? Where in Lancaster County?

 

[angelwngs]

6:00 AM Tuesday Morning- CNN Reporting Four Deaths-

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/15105305/

MSN reporting that a fourth girl died at Children's Hospital with her parents by her side. She passed when the parents decided to take her off life support at app. 4:30AM Tuesday Morning.

 

[sleuthin4fun]

I had posted early about the amish tradition of Rumspringa I think people are very surprised to hear some of the things that really go on in the Amish community. Google Rumspringa it is quite interesting.

Very true, Billy. People have an overly romantic view of the Amish. They have plenty of human issues and problems, just like everyone else. Their way of life certainly is interesting and people like to think of it as sweet and quaint, but for the girls in particular it can be pretty difficult.

Imagine not even having a high school diploma as an option. You can look forward to marriage, babies and farming, or maybe working in a quilt shop or other retail store. That's it. No matter what you might be interested in.

The closed doors in a closed community keep people in as much as they keep people out.

The Amish have also managed to get a number of exemptions from child labor laws so the young boys can work in occupations that are quite dangerous. Like sawmills and wood shops.

There is alot more to the picture than quilts and buggies.

 

[Drella]

they are now reporting 5 deaths.

(AP) NICKEL MINES, Pa. State police say a fifth child has died in a Delaware hospital today of wounds from the shootings at an Amish schoolhouse in Lancaster County.

A fourth child, just 7-years-old, died Tuesday around 4:30 a.m. at Penn State Children’s Hospital in Hershey, hospital spokeswoman Amy Buehler Stranges said.



http://cbs3.com/local/local_story_276060438.html

 

[Floh]

I'm truly gutted to hear about the massacre of these little girls.


it isn't only America which has school shootings, but clearly it does have more.


Dunblane massacre

The Dunblane massacre was a multiple homicide which occurred at the primary school in the town of Dunblane, Scotland on 13 March 1996. It remains the deadliest attack on children in United Kingdom history. Sixteen children and one adult were killed.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunblane_Massacre


Erfurt massacre

The Erfurt massacre was a school shooting that occurred on April 26, 2002 in the Johann Gutenberg Gymnasium in Erfurt, Germany. 16 people were killed before the perpetrator committed suicide. Most of the victims were teachers.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Erfurt_massacre