PA - Five girls dead, 5 injured in Amish school shooting, 2 Oct 2006

  • #101
Wow this thread had gotten a lot of hits since earlier this morning, and honestly I don't have to to go back a read through all of the post, so please for give me if this has already been asked or answered. What kind of grudge could he have had from 20 years ago that would lead him to do this? He would have only been between 11-12 YO. I'll be interested to heat more about this "grudge"
 
  • #102
kk's mom said:
I don't think it's because they just like them. The color/shades assist with the heating and cooling of the house in either winter and/or summer. Also, it helps prevent their furnishings from being bleached by the sun. They are always pulled down when the room they are in faces the sun.

.


Sure, they have a practical use. Most houses used to have them. But why the dark green ones instead of white or tan? Or the more effective thermal fabric? I think that choice is just preference and tradition.
 
  • #103
Maybe he was accused, at 12, of touching a little girl. Maybe at 12 he started doing drugs, he had that drug test scheduled for today.

what a coward! of all helpless humans to pick on. I hope there really is a hell so he burns for eternity.
 
  • #104
bakerprune64 said:
Wow this thread had gotten a lot of hits since earlier this morning, and honestly I don't have to to go back a read through all of the post, so please for give me if this has already been asked or answered. What kind of grudge could he have had from 20 years ago that would lead him to do this? He would have only been between 11-12 YO. I'll be interested to heat more about this "grudge"

I can't imagine holding a grudge that long. I wonder what it was about? This world is full of nuts!!! It's just scary.
 
  • #105
bakerprune64 said:
Wow this thread had gotten a lot of hits since earlier this morning, and honestly I don't have to to go back a read through all of the post, so please for give me if this has already been asked or answered. What kind of grudge could he have had from 20 years ago that would lead him to do this? He would have only been between 11-12 YO. I'll be interested to heat more about this "grudge"

Probably some stupid "boy thing". The Amish are not immune from being rude. Amish kids can be just as cruel as any other kids. They are regular humans who behave badly sometimes.

Obviously the shooter had a screw loose to settle any score this way.
 
  • #106
bakerprune64 said:
Wow this thread had gotten a lot of hits since earlier this morning, and honestly I don't have to to go back a read through all of the post, so please for give me if this has already been asked or answered. What kind of grudge could he have had from 20 years ago that would lead him to do this? He would have only been between 11-12 YO. I'll be interested to heat more about this "grudge"
Well. I have a grudge from that far back, too. I actually saw the name of one of people I "blame" for my horrible middle school years - it was on the side of his truck. I'm 39 years old - and I started crying and told him my maiden name. He immediately apologized and gave me a hug, said he wasn't that same person anymore. I didn't even have to tell him what he'd done - he remembered. It was all words - but hateful and powerful ones.

He was holding a snake of mine (a pet) and I was delivering some more snakes to a guy - and I took my snake back from BRIAN DEKLE and left. 27 years later and I still cried.

Middle school grudges - from kids being evil - they can last forever.
 
  • #107
thats a good idea for a thread, Glitch!
 
  • #108
Glitchwizard Before moving to Florida I worked at Goshen Hospital for 10 years. Delivered many Amish babies! As far as Mennonites go I don't consider the Goshen College Mennonites to be all that conservative anymore.
If you want to learn some other info on the amish google "rumspringa" it is quite shocking. I am sure that not all amish families practice this but I was stunned.


GlitchWizard said:
I got my B.A. from the University of Florida.
Then I decided to get a Teaching Certification from Goshen College.
Goshen College is a Mennonite college.

Imagine my culture shock!

Anyway, based on my limited knowledge, Mennonites can go to school further along - Amish are supposed to stop at 8th grade. Mennonites bathe more often. Amish bathe on Friday nights before church on Saturday. Mennonites can drive cars, but they cannot drink, dance or have premarital sex. SOME Amish practice having sex "behind the barn" with their daughters - so they are ready for marraige to someone else. This MAY be less common than it once was. Mennonites would not do that.

From what I remember, speaking my mind and having an opinion other than the Mennonites was a BAD thing. When I gained too much pregnancy weight and had my wedding band cut off - and was pregnant with no wedding band - I might as well have been Ms. Satan. No one would talk to me.

I remember Mennonites were BIG into music and art teachings for their children, and majorly into helping 3rd world countries - lots of going to other countries - it was required. I doubt Amish travel much past their own villages and to work.
 
  • #109


Now how many of these do you suppose they sell?
 
  • #110
GlitchWizard said:
I got my B.A. from the University of Florida.
Then I decided to get a Teaching Certification from Goshen College.
Goshen College is a Mennonite college.

Imagine my culture shock!

Anyway, based on my limited knowledge, Mennonites can go to school further along - Amish are supposed to stop at 8th grade. Mennonites bathe more often. Amish bathe on Friday nights before church on Saturday. Mennonites can drive cars, but they cannot drink, dance or have premarital sex. SOME Amish practice having sex "behind the barn" with their daughters - so they are ready for marraige to someone else. This MAY be less common than it once was. Mennonites would not do that.

From what I remember, speaking my mind and having an opinion other than the Mennonites was a BAD thing. When I gained too much pregnancy weight and had my wedding band cut off - and was pregnant with no wedding band - I might as well have been Ms. Satan. No one would talk to me.

I remember Mennonites were BIG into music and art teachings for their children, and majorly into helping 3rd world countries - lots of going to other countries - it was required. I doubt Amish travel much past their own villages and to work.
Some Mennonites remove radios from their vehicles, but they do drive. Kids sneak portables in and listen while driving. We ate accross from a couple at the last Yoder Heritage Day we attended in Kansas. I was shocked to hear they went to the Mennonite church nearby in Hutchinson, KS. She was wearing Bermuda shorts and a T Shirt.

Amish do travel. There are a group of Amish from Indiana who always come to Colorado for the draft horse auctions 3 times a year. They bring horses, the women sell crafts and some have their harness for sale. The boys and girls take the horses through the auction ring often. You know you can't resist young girls and these big horses. When it's cold, the young girls wear long pants under their dresses. They hire drivers to take them out or even take the train or a bus. Both the Amish men and women alike have always treated me in a friendly manner. The men will treat an "Englisher" woman the same as an "Englisher" man. I bought 2 paint draft horses and a Standardbred buggy horse from one Amishman at the sale. After I won the bid, I followed the horses back and got a big hug from both the Amishman and his wife.

A lot of the customs and differences between "Old Order" and other groups depend upon the community. Each group is not very large. They worship together every other Sunday in one of the members homes. If the bishop of one group deems it necessary, then that group will be able to farm with tractors. In Yoder it's not uncommon to see tractors pull wagons with the wife behind on a farm wagon, perhaps going to town to shop or do business. They employ answering services. We call a number and then our friend will call us back. They are in business and do need to keep in touch with customers. They do a great deal of business with outsiders.

I was suprised to see an Amishman pull into a gas station in a pickup with a bale of hay on a trailer. It was explained that some do. Some are allowed to drive for their jobs. Our friend has a car parked behind his barn. It actually belongs to his father in law. The older gentleman doesn't want his immediate neighbors to see.

Amish hunt, fish and have family campouts. Teenagers are quite free, believe it or not. They are allowed to meet with other young people of the opposite sex at gatherings where they flirt just like we do. This is a very liberal time for these children. It's not uncommon for them to be driving cars and perhaps even drinking during this period. When they become of age, they make the decision to wholly commit to the life, or not. Also, Amish men do not grow beards until they marry.

This is from personal experience, asking questions and reading.
 
  • #111
The witness talking to CNN on the phone this morning said his daughter told him this man had a disagreement with 3 mothers around 8:30am today.

Putting 2 + 2 together, it might have been about what happened 20 years ago, and he decided he wasn't going to let these little Amish girls grow up to be women. They just said on Tucker's show that they think his problem back then did stem from some interaction with a young Amish girl.

This guys dad is a Corpral {sp} in the Lancaster Police Dept! He was home schooled for his formal education.

He walked in there planning to execute all the little girls and then kill himself. What a chicken chit excuse for a human being!


Scandi :chicken: chit
 
  • #112
SadieMae said:
Who would ever have thought something like this would happen in an Amish community? The world gets crazier by the day. :(
I lived in Lancaster County for 3 years. There's a lot more that goes on inside the Amish communties than building barns and making fudge.
 
  • #113
luthersmama said:
The Lancaster County Amish are pretty savvy. Although they don't usually have TV's at home, they do use the internet, believe it or not. They also ride in cars and listen to the radio and read newspapers and magazines. If they go to someone else's home or are in a public place they will happily watch tv. They are surrounded by suburban development and not all of them live on farms. Many of the young men work in local factories and see the tv in the breakroom or listen to the radio when they go in a friend's car. The young women work in "English" homes and schools and see tv and whatnot. They are nowhere near as isolated as you might think.

However...I can't remember anything like this ever happening. There are very bad car-buggy accidents now and then where a whole family is killed, but nothing like this. But nothing like this has happened in this part of the state in ANY school.


The shootings today were of a particular sect of Amish called old order Amish, of which there are, I believe, maybe 20,000 living in Lancaster Co and they DO NOT HAVE TVS, LISTEN TO RADIOS, RIDE IN CARS, HAVE ELECTRICITY, ETC. THEY ARE VERY STRICT. Then there is another order which we use to call "Black Bumper Amish" - they were not as strict and were allowed to own cars, have electricity, etc. - they were called black bumper Amish because they could drive cars, but they had to be SOLID black - no chrome - BUT, as I said above, there are still quite a few OLD ORDER Amish who live without ANY MODERN CONVENIENCES!
 
  • #114
scandi said:
This guys dad is a Corpral {sp} in the Lancaster Police Dept! He was home schooled for his formal education.

He walked in there planning to execute all the little girls and then kill himself. What a chicken chit excuse for a human being!


Scandi :chicken: chit

So he was homeschooled? Do you think that contributed to his rampage this morning? We all know that there are plenty of people who have gone through the public school systems who turn out just as evil. As a homeschooling parent, I take offense to the comment about him being homeschooled, like that is the reason he lost his mind!

Okay, now that I got the above off my chest, let me say this...

What happened in Lancaster this morning is beyond tragic. I don't know what is going on this week, but hopefully people will come to their senses soon. Another poster stated, if you want to kill yourself, fine. Go find yourself some place where you won't injury or kill anyone else, and let it rip. Don't take others out with you!
 
  • #115
  • #116
Shadow205 said:
luthersmama,

Just curious, how do you know that these are Old Order Amish and not Mennonites? How can you tell the difference?
Mennonites drive cars and wear clothes with zippers on them, for one thing. Although hardline Mennonites drive trucks and not cars, as cars are viewed as a "luxury". They also used to not have have rear view mirrors on their vehicles because that was "vanity"--until the state stepped in and mandated it.
 
  • #117
Total lunatic. He drives his tanker of milk on 3rd shift.... and then goes postal on the Amish.

These people don't even usually have cops in their towns.

What an 🤬🤬🤬.
 
  • #118
reb said:
<SOME Amish practice having sex "behind the barn" with their daughters - so they are ready for marraige to someone else.>


......excuse me......??? did we hear you correctly....?????????
Sexual abuse of children in Amish communities is a fact, but one that doesn't get a lot of ink. There's also a huge problem with inbreeding in the various communities. Amish names are Christian Name-Mother's Maiden Name-Father's Surname. It is not uncommon for Jacob Stoltzfus Stoltzfus to be the son of Isiah Stoltzfus Stoltzfus and Rebecca Stoltzfus Stoltzfus. There are some genetic disorders that are unique to the Amish community--such as a specific type of dwarfism--and they have been studied for decades re the genetic predisposition of paranoid-schizophrenia. The Mennonoite community in that area is also plauged with a high incidence of Maple Urine Syndrome (its real--honest). One thing that struck me when I was living the Lancaster County was that it had a Cleft Palate Clinic. I lived in New York City and never saw one of those the whole time I lived there.

Was this guy shunned? Had he been raised in the Amish community and then decided to go live in the outside world?
 
  • #119
SoccerMom said:
Sure have! I've lived in Lancaster since 1988. Most of the areas here in Lancaster County are broken into Townships, rather than citites/towns. Bart Township may not have had a dedicated police force, but often there is a police force that is responsible for 1-3 areas. There unfortunately is crime even within the Amish communities. Several years ago, there was a huge cocaine bust in this area involving the Amish and the Hells Angels. Very strange bedfellows. ;)
Hi SoccerMom,
Here is an article to what you are talking about.
They were involved with The Pagans motorcycle gang.
Unholy alliance
PHILADELPHIA (CNN) -- Two Amish men are scheduled to appear in federal court Thursday to be arraigned on charges that they obtained drugs from a motorcycle gang called the Pagans and distributed them to Amish teens.

The indictment last week of Abner Stoltzfus, 24, and Abner King Stoltzfus, 23, created headlines and shocked the legions of tourists who flock to the gentle fields of Lancaster County, west of Philadelphia, that the Amish call home.


Respectfully,
dark_shadows
 
  • #120
deespoohbear said:
So he was homeschooled? Do you think that contributed to his rampage this morning? We all know that there are plenty of people who have gone through the public school systems who turn out just as evil. As a homeschooling parent, I take offense to the comment about him being homeschooled, like that is the reason he lost his mind!

Okay, now that I got the above off my chest, let me say this...

What happened in Lancaster this morning is beyond tragic. I don't know what is going on this week, but hopefully people will come to their senses soon. Another poster stated, if you want to kill yourself, fine. Go find yourself some place where you won't injury or kill anyone else, and let it rip. Don't take others out with you!
It looks l to me like Scandi was just giving information. There was nothing there saying he did it because he was home schooled. There was no reason to take offense at that.
 

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