PA - Five girls dead, 5 injured in Amish school shooting, 2 Oct 2006

[Socks]

What a bunch of friggin morons.

 

[cheko1]

QUOTE=poco]To me, to forgive is to heal. If I cannot forgive someone, then the resentment and anger that I carry only festers inside of me like a cancer and I live my life as a victim. Forgiveness is the first step toward healing our hearts, our minds and our souls.[/QUOTE]
poco,
I applaud you, I could not forgive someone for murdering my kids.
I can forgive someone for anything else but not murder.

 

[Straitfan]

The Amish community is an example of human beings living right.. Think we could all learn from them..

 

[s_finch]

just read that NY times article... how strange that the 2 relatives who were thought to be the ones the gunman molested denied it ever happened! do they just not want to talk about it, or was the gunman making it all up???

If they were ages 3 and 5 and if what he did was "minor" molestation (as if there could be such a thing) then they might not remember it at all. Molestation doesn't necessarily mean there was any penetration, it could have been brief fondling that the kids, especially the 3 year old, didn't think much of. OR it could be that their minds chose to block it out many years ago or it could be as you suggested that they are embarrased and don't want to admit it.

 

[opme]

I am amazed at these families ability for kindness, compassion and forgiveness.. even though I have grown up amongst the Amish. It seems as if the rest of our society has forgotten how to express or feel these for others.. it seems like the only time there is any outpouring is when there is a disaster like this or katrina.. the lesson I think is not to simply show support in a crises but everyday not only for those we love but for all people. I am amazed that even 20 missionary churches in Africa are sending $1.. how ever small this may be to many of us.. I suspect its a great deal of money for them and in reality its a symbol of their support.

 

[christine2448]

To me, to forgive is to heal. If I cannot forgive someone, then the resentment and anger that I carry only festers inside of me like a cancer and I live my life as a victim. Forgiveness is the first step toward healing our hearts, our minds and our souls.

Excellent post, I was wanting to respond to others saying that they could not forgive for this, and I knew how I felt, that it would only hurt me, but couldn't put it in words....thanks for posting this Poco, it's exactly what I wanted to say!

 

[Linda7NJ]

just read that NY times article... how strange that the 2 relatives who were thought to be the ones the gunman molested denied it ever happened! do they just not want to talk about it, or was the gunman making it all up???

They were very young when they were allegedly molested, they probably just don't remember.

 

[opme]

The Amish have shown the world they're faith is first. I know I couldn't or wouldn't be as forgiving as they are. It would of been over my dead body I asked the murderers family to come to my daughters funeral.

I will always have respect for them. They are what I'm not!

This is such a horrific situation for all involved. I I am not certain about the funeral.. I think in general I would want only those who were close to my child to attend. I would feel oddly having anyone who even though compassionate and sympathetic but did not know my child in life to attend her funeral. However I do think that though I may not extend an invitation to the funeral, that I would want to meet or communicate with the perps family. Not out of anger but to express that though I may be angry that its not directed towards the family but only the individual who commited these heinous acts. In this case his wife and family are very much victims. They too are suffering greatly.. not understanding, questioning why they didn't see it coming, is there something that they could have done to prevent such a sensless crime.. His wife is very much in need of support and compassion. In her case there is nothing to forgive.. she didnt comit these crimes.. her husband did. She is now left to cope with the financial and emotional ramifications for her children and her self. She I expect feels like a pariah in the community. She is a faithful lawabiding citizen who never expected her husband could commit these acts, or that he had planned to do so. Dealing with the loss of her husband that she knew, trying to reconcile that with what has happened in her own mind and cope with the suffering of the children which will have to know some day has got to be incredibly overwhelming. And his father who is a retired police officer, a service provider to the amish and friend to the families .. I just cant even fathom how he is coping.. they are just as much victims of this tragedy and more than anyone else need that compassion and support. Knowing that would help me to extend those kindness to these family members. but I would struggle finding it in my hear to extend that to the perpatrator..

 

[ember]

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/10/05/us/05cnd-amish.html?hp&ex=1160107200&en=9a20b0a3dcde5622&ei=5094&partner=homepage

Oh my, I'm just in tears....the end part of the article where it stated that the pregnant woman who was in the room with the children said to her friend that she knew angels were in the room with them is just too much...we all have so much to learn from the Amish....

 

[luthersmama]

any word about how the shooter got the gun & all that ammo?? i would say 'probably f*ing wal-mart' but i hear they have really tightened up their policy on that. it's strange that he was able to amass all that w/o his wife knowing.

There are many gun shops in the area. Besides WalMart, there are hunting outfitters (including Cabela's which is less than an hour from his home) gun shows, and other private gun dealers. Lottsa guns in rural Pennsylvania. Nobody would be surprised by an individual having that much stuff. Using it for an evil purpose is another matter.

 

[luthersmama]

They were very young when they were allegedly molested, they probably just don't remember.

Maybe he just fantasized about it, like Karr and JBR.

 

[ljwf22]

Here's some good news from Lancasteronline:

"Another girl, 6, was taken off life support at Hershey and brought home to die. But a minister who has met with the families said that the girl was showing signs of recovery and was taken back to the medical center for further treatment."

Link: http://local.lancasteronline.com/4/26513

Also one hospitalized girl went home to attend her sister's funeral:

“Shoot me first,” Marian Fisher, 13, who died in the shooting, told Roberts as he stood over them with a gun.

“Shoot me next,” said Marian’s 11-year-old sister, Barbie, who survived the shooting and was able to come home temporarily from the hospital Thursday to attend her sister’s funeral."

What bravery!

 

[2luvmy]

Here's some good news from Lancasteronline:

"Another girl, 6, was taken off life support at Hershey and brought home to die. But a minister who has met with the families said that the girl was showing signs of recovery and was taken back to the medical center for further treatment."

I thought someone posted that she died. I am confused.

 

[cheko1]

This is such a horrific situation for all involved. I I am not certain about the funeral.. I think in general I would want only those who were close to my child to attend. I would feel oddly having anyone who even though compassionate and sympathetic but did not know my child in life to attend her funeral. However I do think that though I may not extend an invitation to the funeral, that I would want to meet or communicate with the perps family. Not out of anger but to express that though I may be angry that its not directed towards the family but only the individual who commited these heinous acts. In this case his wife and family are very much victims. They too are suffering greatly.. not understanding, questioning why they didn't see it coming, is there something that they could have done to prevent such a sensless crime.. His wife is very much in need of support and compassion. In her case there is nothing to forgive.. she didnt comit these crimes.. her husband did. She is now left to cope with the financial and emotional ramifications for her children and her self. She I expect feels like a pariah in the community. She is a faithful lawabiding citizen who never expected her husband could commit these acts, or that he had planned to do so. Dealing with the loss of her husband that she knew, trying to reconcile that with what has happened in her own mind and cope with the suffering of the children which will have to know some day has got to be incredibly overwhelming. And his father who is a retired police officer, a service provider to the amish and friend to the families .. I just cant even fathom how he is coping.. they are just as much victims of this tragedy and more than anyone else need that compassion and support. Knowing that would help me to extend those kindness to these family members. but I would struggle finding it in my hear to extend that to the perpatrator..

I am certain his wife & his family feel simply horrible about what has happened. They are not to blame......but I'd not want them at the funeral. I'd want people who loved my child to attend. My anger wouldn't be at the family. It would be at the purp who did this to my child.

My brother died a horrid death at 12 yrs old. A friend of his, deliberately threw a match on him after gasoline spilled on him. He had over 98% of his body burnt. He lived 27 days, he died a horrible death. I am not consumed in pity nor hate. Nor do I think daily of his death or what happened to him. Since his friend was 14 my folks never pressed charges. I rarelly allow mysellf to think of it. The guy (now 51) has lived with himself daily. I don't know or care what happened to him. He would never be a friend of mine! Nor would he be welcome in my home. I'd never give him a chance to harm my family again.

 

[ljwf22]

I thought someone posted that she died. I am confused.

I don't think she did die. I think she was taken off life support and taken home to die, but improved. I think if another girl had died, it's be in the news.

 

[Shadow205]

cheko1,

I am so sorry about what happened to your brother. Such a stupid thing for that kid to do. I'm sure that he has lived with it all of his life.

 

[Shadow205]

I don't think she did die. I think she was taken off life support and taken home to die, but improved. I think if another girl had died, it's be in the news.

I am confused too. I heard last night that 2 girls had been removed from life support and taken home. If I find a link, I'll post it.

 

[christine2448]

I am confused too. I heard last night that 2 girls had been removed from life support and taken home. If I find a link, I'll post it.

Trying to help ya out finding the link, still looking....here is complete local coverage of the shootings/funerals/etc

http://local.lancasteronline.com/1/91

 

[christine2448]

I am confused too. I heard last night that 2 girls had been removed from life support and taken home. If I find a link, I'll post it.

According to this article from TODAY...I come up with this, we know there were 10 victims, today is the funeral for the 5th, 3 more are expected to recover, and 2 are still in critical condition (says believed to be in)

After a fifth funeral today the Amish community is turning to the living, with hope for recovery, thanksgiving for final moments of selflessness, and prayers for comfort.
Anna Mae Stoltzfus, 12, an Amish girl killed in a Bart Township schoolhouse shooting Monday, was buried today on a dreary, rainy day, following four funerals that took place Thursday under blue October skies.

An Amish-community contact said today that families hope three of the five other girls wounded in the shooting will have almost a full recovery. The two others are believed to remain in critical condition.

http://local.lancasteronline.com/4/26513

 

[BarnGoddess]

I don't think she did die. I think she was taken off life support and taken home to die, but improved. I think if another girl had died, it's be in the news.

I do remember earlier that one of the girls was taken off life support and died in the hospital. I think that's right. That would mean the other one would have been sent home to at the family's request, then she died.

I think this is right.