PA - Five girls dead, 5 injured in Amish school shooting, 2 Oct 2006

[reb]

that's some pretty unusual psychosis and delusion, to go out and slaughter several other innocent children just because you lost one of yours shortly after birth. so he had a couple others who were healthy & happy, and it was worth giving them (and his own life) up- because of that? wow.
so did his wife ever admit that anything was wrong with him? she had said that nothing seemed amiss, he was a perfect father & husband, blah blah. surely she knew something was wrong, but i guess she's not talking. i wonder if she, or his co-workers or friends, ever asked "hey are you OK? something wrong? do you need some help?" usually if someone's suffering that badly others pick up on it, to some degree. it's just strange how someone that bad off slipped through the cracks like that.

 

[reb]

luthersmama- thanks for sharing the link with that amazing thank you letter. i always had tremendous respect for the amish, and now even more so. no one's perfect and i'm sure they have many issues they are dealing with, but it's incredible that they have been able to keep their tradition going for as long as they have. i love that they call the people who live around them their "neighbors" and even though they want to live separate from the rest of the world they never seemed to prostheletyze or threatening that others will 'burn in hell for their ways', and what have you- as most of the extreme religious sects do. they do their thing but i never got the feeling they had a 'superiority complex'. it is very touching to know they gratefully accepted help & would be donating any of the other funds to charities within (or outside of) their own community. what an amazing group of people- and i hope they can keep their tradition and lifestyle going for a long, long time. the rest of us have a lot to learn from them!

 

[luthersmama]

that's some pretty unusual psychosis and delusion, to go out and slaughter several other innocent children just because you lost one of yours shortly after birth. so he had a couple others who were healthy & happy, and it was worth giving them (and his own life) up- because of that? wow.
so did his wife ever admit that anything was wrong with him? she had said that nothing seemed amiss, he was a perfect father & husband, blah blah. surely she knew something was wrong, but i guess she's not talking. i wonder if she, or his co-workers or friends, ever asked "hey are you OK? something wrong? do you need some help?" usually if someone's suffering that badly others pick up on it, to some degree. it's just strange how someone that bad off slipped through the cracks like that.

I think it is quite common for someone to get depressed to the point of psychosis, but they usually kill themselves instead of others. It isn't his degree of illness that is unusual, or his failure to get help, but the way in which he acted out.

Although I may get flamed for saying so, I think his religious upbringing and his religious home life kept him from getting medical help. He may have thought he was being punished by God, or that he wasn't being godly enough or something and that, rather than a physical illness that could be helped with medication, was what was wrong.

Had he talked to someone other than God, maybe he would have gotten help. Not saying that faith isn't helpful, but sometimes a little medicine is worth a try.

 

[reb]

so he was religious? what kind? that's a common problem i'm afraid-- think andrea yates & husband (to cite a well-known example. although, the difference is- they actually DID seek help outside the church-- but unfortunately didn't follow up after a while... because, she seemed better.)

too bad this guy wasn't man enough (or sane enough) to seek help before he hurt so many others.

 

[luthersmama]

so he was religious? what kind? that's a common problem i'm afraid-- think andrea yates & husband (to cite a well-known example. although, the difference is- they actually DID seek help outside the church-- but unfortunately didn't follow up after a while... because, she seemed better.)

too bad this guy wasn't man enough (or sane enough) to seek help before he hurt so many others.

Here is an article speculating about his mental state:

http://local.lancasteronline.com/4/26441

I'm not sure about the Church. They were married in something called the "Highland Church of God" and the minister from the "Providence Church of God" is acting as the family's spokesperson. Some sort of independent evangelical, as far as I can tell.

 

[Texana]

Thanks, Luthersmama, that article was a good one.

 

[Taximom]

I can't get the thought out of my head that perhaps he was struggling with his OWN children as far as sexually abusing them goes. Or maybe he already had and felt great guilt about it.

 

[Sherlockmom]

>I can't get the thought out of my head that perhaps he was struggling with his OWN children as far as sexually abusing them goes. Or maybe he already had and felt great guilt about it.<

I've wondered the same thing. Wouldn't be surprised if he was.

I do not believe that the death of his infant daughter had anything to do with this whole thing. Lots of people lose children and they don't go off and do something like this. Plus it makes no logical sense to react by molesting and murdering other people's kids.

I'm not sure about his claim about molesting the relatives. But didn't he claim this was revenge for something that happened 20 years ago? How can you take revenge for something that YOU did wrong? Doesn't it work the other way around?

This man's thoughts were very disjointed and illogical. He was either making this stuff up or really sick. We'll probably never know.

I'm a religious person and this is what I wonder about. I wonder about evil and if you believe in evil and Satan if this man wasn't just taken over by something that we don't understand. Maybe Satan was hoping to anger the Amish enough that they would deny God. These are a God-fearing people who do not believe in revenge and believe in forgiveness. What better way to test this than to take their children in the most horrific way?

 

[Only4Justice]

>I'm a religious person and this is what I wonder about. I wonder about evil and if you believe in evil and Satan if this man wasn't just taken over by something that we don't understand. Maybe Satan was hoping to anger the Amish enough that they would deny God. These are a God-fearing people who do not believe in revenge and believe in forgiveness. What better way to test this than to take their children in the most horrific way?

SherlockMom, good post. I'm a religious person too, and I fully believe this could happen. All you have to do is read stories from the Old Testament and you'll read about many instances of the early Christians' faith being tested in horrific ways.....

_______________________________

The above is ONLY MY OPINION and I AM entitled to have one!!

 

[Opie]

The Book of Job, for instance. Somehow I still fail to understand that completely. However, I guess that is the difference between the Old Testament and the New Testament. Guess that is a discussion for another forum...

 

[s_finch]

>I can't get the thought out of my head that perhaps he was struggling with his OWN children as far as sexually abusing them goes. Or maybe he already had and felt great guilt about it.<

I've wondered the same thing. Wouldn't be surprised if he was.

I do not believe that the death of his infant daughter had anything to do with this whole thing. Lots of people lose children and they don't go off and do something like this. Plus it makes no logical sense to react by molesting and murdering other people's kids.

I'm not sure about his claim about molesting the relatives. But didn't he claim this was revenge for something that happened 20 years ago? How can you take revenge for something that YOU did wrong? Doesn't it work the other way around?

This man's thoughts were very disjointed and illogical. He was either making this stuff up or really sick. We'll probably never know.

I'm a religious person and this is what I wonder about. I wonder about evil and if you believe in evil and Satan if this man wasn't just taken over by something that we don't understand. Maybe Satan was hoping to anger the Amish enough that they would deny God. These are a God-fearing people who do not believe in revenge and believe in forgiveness. What better way to test this than to take their children in the most horrific way?

Good points! My best friend and I were just discussing this subject the other day. If you believe in the JudeoChristian stance, then you believe evil is all around and it can consume people. I've do wonder sometimes where the line is between mental illness and evil. I think only God knows and that's why He gets to separate the wheat from the tares. Job (as Opie mentioned) is a great example of how suffering can be used to glorify God. And as much as it hurts to lose a loved one, if you believe in Heaven then you look forward to that day.

The Amish have shown this nation and the world the meaning of God's love and forgiveness.

 

[SieSie]

Good points! My best friend and I were just discussing this subject the other day. If you believe in the JudeoChristian stance, then you believe evil is all around and it can consume people. I've do wonder sometimes where the line is between mental illness and evil. I think only God knows and that's why He gets to separate the wheat from the tares. Job (as Opie mentioned) is a great example of how suffering can be used to glorify God. And as much as it hurts to lose a loved one, if you believe in Heaven then you look forward to that day.

The Amish have shown this nation and the world the meaning of God's love and forgiveness.

Amen!!

 

[reb]

i understand the concept of forgiveness in theory,,. but where do you draw the line? what if this kind of thing (the amish incident) started happening more often (to them)--? at some point your survival is at stake, and you have to get more aggressive to defend yourself. it's easy to forgive someone when they're already dead, or in jail for life and feeling remorseful......

 

[Sherlockmom]

>i understand the concept of forgiveness in theory,,. but where do you draw the line? what if this kind of thing (the amish incident) started happening more often (to them)--? at some point your survival is at stake, and you have to get more aggressive to defend yourself. it's easy to forgive someone when they're already dead, or in jail for life and feeling remorseful......<


I know that I could not forgive my child's killer. But then I'm not Amish and I don't believe that God would expect me to. I believe that the Amish would not fight back no matter what. They would die with their religious beliefs. The Amish are able to practise their faith because others are willing to die for them.

 

[Details]

The KKK is still around, and still does it's hate filled marches. The best thing I think we can do to them is to deny them publicity - that's why they do these things, for the publicity, to reach the other few repulsive critters who agree with them. So, the less publicity, the better. A law that no one can disrupt any funeral sounds good too - doesn't seem an appropriate place for protests - but my personal contribution is to avoid reading the stories (since clicking on that link generates advertising dollars for the news company), and writing in emails to the news sites that I don't appreciate them giving out publicity to that group.

 

[luthersmama]

Here is an article about the pregnant woman who the killer released. She had her baby, three weeks early.

http://www.philly.com/mld/philly/15816431.htm

I was out near Nickel Mines yesterday. The donation jar at the cash register was pretty well stuffed, but I managed to tuck something in. I hope the survivors get through this.

 

[cheko1]

That is just heart wrenching.....but at the same time very uplifting.

 

[Sherlockmom]

Shooter told girls they were to "pay for his daughter".

Makes no sense to me. Why were these innocent girls to blame? I suppose in his disjointed mind it may have made sense. Odds are if his daughter had lived she probably would have been molested by him.

Also no drugs were found in his system.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,222898,00.html?sPage=fnc.national/crime

 

[christine2448]

Here is an article about the pregnant woman who the killer released. She had her baby, three weeks early.

http://www.philly.com/mld/philly/15816431.htm

I was out near Nickel Mines yesterday. The donation jar at the cash register was pretty well stuffed, but I managed to tuck something in. I hope the survivors get through this.

http://www.cnn.com/2006/US/10/23/amish.baby.ap/index.html

A pregnant woman who survived the shooting at an Amish school earlier this month has given birth and named the baby after one of the girls who was killed.
The 22-year-old woman, who would give her name only as Lydia, gave birth October 10, The Philadelphia Inquirer reported Sunday. The child is named after 7-year-old Naomi Rose Ebersol, one of five girls fatally shot by Charles Carl Roberts IV.

 

[luthersmama]

Four of the wounded girls have returned home. One remains in the hospital but is "making progress":

http://local.lancasteronline.com/4/27119