GUILTY PA - Husband charged in cyanide poisoning death of Dr. Autumn Klein

[jjenny]

Cyanide is not difficult to come by if one works in research settings. Not at all difficult. And both AK and her husband worked in research.

 

[foodle]

Cyanide is not difficult to come by if one works in research settings. Not at all difficult. And both AK and her husband worked in research.

Depends on the "research setting" you are talking about. That's a bit general of a statement to say that if you're in "research" you have ready access to cyanide.

 

[foodle]

1) A friend of mine worked with her and there is simply no way this is a suicide. Her personality, demeanor, and actions beforehand in no way point towards suicide.

2) That a doctor might choose to commit suicide by cyanide is ludicrous. She had easy access to dozens of other drugs that would have provided a painless way to die, but instead chose cyanide (harder to obtain, a painful death)?!?! No way.

3) That the husband has hired Cyril Wecht (disgraced, utterly corrupt) is indication enough of guilt.

4) Any innocent husband, on learning that his wife had high levels of cyanide in her body at the time of her mysterious death would be hounding the police day and night to find out who poisoned his wife. He would not be hiring lawyers and corrupt former medical examiners to promote ludicrous theories about how the cyanide was a natural byproduct or lab mistake.

 

[ATasteOfHoney]

1) A friend of mine worked with her and there is simply no way this is a suicide. Her personality, demeanor, and actions beforehand in no way point towards suicide.

2) That a doctor might choose to commit suicide by cyanide is ludicrous. She had easy access to dozens of other drugs that would have provided a painless way to die, but instead chose cyanide (harder to obtain, a painful death)?!?! No way.

3) That the husband has hired Cyril Wecht (disgraced, utterly corrupt) is indication enough of guilt.

4) Any innocent husband, on learning that his wife had high levels of cyanide in her body at the time of her mysterious death would be hounding the police day and night to find out who poisoned his wife. He would not be hiring lawyers and corrupt former medical examiners to promote ludicrous theories about how the cyanide was a natural byproduct or lab mistake.

ITA with your surmations but I didn't know about what I've boldened. Really?

:facepalm:

 

[michmi]

ITA with your surmations but I didn't know about what I've boldened. Really?

:facepalm:

http://www.bizjournals.com/pittsburgh/stories/2006/01/16/daily41.html?jst=b_ln_hl

Case was dismissed, but only because much of the evidence was suppressed.

 

[jjenny]

Depends on the "research setting" you are talking about. That's a bit general of a statement to say that if you're in "research" you have ready access to cyanide.

No, it is not "a bit of a general statement."

Cyanide can be ordered, just like anything else. Futhremore, my understanding both husband and wife might have had cyanide in their labs already. And even if they didn't have it in their personal labs, it's not uncommon to have cyanide in research labs.

"It was previously reported that the medical examiner's office issued subpoenas to the university to gain insight into the movement of chemicals, including cyanide, in and out of the lab. CBS Pittsburgh reported search warrants were specifically being used to obtain cyanide from the lab where Ferrante works."
http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-504083_...tsburgh-doctors-death-from-cyanide-poisoning/

 

[jjenny]

" Stephanie Hon, assistant director and clinical toxicologist at the Georgia Poison Control Center who also is a pharmacist, said cyanide could be found in labs for use in chemical reactions. Hon said it is used in at least two drugs, one anti-cancer drug and another to treat high blood pressure.

“I wouldn't be surprised to find it in a lab,” said Hon, a Duquesne University graduate."

Read more: http://triblive.com/news/adminpage/3951106-74/klein-lois-ferrante#ixzz2ShrF0ak7
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[AlwaysShocked]

Cyril Wecht MD is a controversial figure here in his home territory - Allegheny County(Pittsburgh), Pennsylvania. People seem to either love him or hate him. And for whatever reason, it seems to be more of the latter.

BUT, despite a highly publicized trial after being accused of using his public office for his own personal monetary gain, he was NEVER convicted of any of the charges. And FWIW, one of the main witnesses in his defense was a Roman Catholic nun who was the President of Carlow College at the time. She provided detailed information that refuted the specific charges and in addition she described Wecht's character in glowingly positive terms.

I have no strong feelings about Wecht one way or the other. But do think it is important for the true outcome of his trial to be noted.


"Public concerns were raised about the motivation and conduct of the prosecution before and after the trial.[25][26] Speculation arose that the prosecution of Wecht was politically motivated. Attorney General and Governor of Pennsylvania Dick Thornburgh, a defense lawyer for Wecht, testified before a house panel investigating the US Attorneys' Firing Scandal that Wecht was targeted politically.[27][28]

Representative Mike Doyle and Representative John Conyers, questioned the prosecution's tactics in the aftermath of the first trial and instituted Congressional hearings on the matter.[29] Op-eds in The Pittsburgh Post Gazette and the Pittsburgh Tribune Review called for dismissal of the proposed re-trial.[30] On April 12, 2008, 33 prominent leaders in the Pittsburgh community sent a letter to Attorney General Michael Mukasey and US Attorney Mary Beth Buchanan requesting that the prosecution dismiss the indictment against Wecht. Shortly after the press release of this letter, Senator Arlen Specter publicly recommended against a retrial for Wecht.[31] Former jurors stated to the press that they believed that the prosecution had been politically motivated.[32]

On May 5, 2008, the Department of Justice's Office of Professional Responsibility (OPR) revealed that it initiated an investigation into the Wecht prosecution due to claims that the case was a "selective prosecution".[33]

On May 14, 2009, the trial judge in the retrial excluded most of the evidence against Wecht because it was seized under illegal and improperly executed search warrant."

You can read all of the details here:
Cyril Wecht - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[foodle]

No, it is not "a bit of a general statement."

I work in a "research setting" at a university. Yet there is no cyanide in the entire building I work in, nor would I have any idea how to get it.

In this specific context, there may have been cyanide in the medical research labs that the victim and her husband worked in, but just because someone works in "research" doesn't mean there's a bunch of cyanide lying around. The field, sub-field, and exact research make a big difference as to the equipment and materials/chemicals used.

 

[foodle]

BUT, despite a highly publicized trial after being accused of using his public office for his own personal monetary gain, he was NEVER convicted of any of the charges. And FWIW, one of the main witnesses in his defense was a Roman Catholic nun who was the President of Carlow College at the time. She provided detailed information that refuted the specific charges and in addition she described Wecht's character in glowingly positive terms.

Casey Anthony and OJ (the first time) weren't convicted either.

And it's long past the time that a representative of the Roman Catholic Church can be counted on to tell the truth.

 

[time]

Ok, can we drop further discussion of Dr. Wecht so it doesn't take over this forum thread.

 

[AzPistonsGirl]

I do legal research. No way I could get my hands on cyanide easily in my research setting.

That said, sad for Autumn and her daughter.

 

[jjenny]

I do legal research. No way I could get my hands on cyanide easily in my research setting.

That said, sad for Autumn and her daughter.

I've already posted links that police got warrants to specifically look for cyanide in the husband's research lab.
If you don't need it for you research then you are not going to have it.
But researchers who do need are clearly able to legally obtain it.
It's not as difficult as Mr. Wecht is making it out to be.

 

[michmi]

I've already posted links that police got warrants to specifically look for cyanide in the husband's research lab.
If you don't need it for you research then you are not going to have it.
But researchers who do need are clearly able to legally obtain it.
It's not as difficult as Mr. Wecht is making it out to be.

I worked for a pediatric neurologist who also did muscular dystrophy research, specifically Duchenne's. There was cyanide in his lab because I did the inventory for the lab when he moved in. The cyanide was used in some kind of research with muscle fibers--it was beyond me so I couldn't explain it. But it's not uncommon in a medical research lab.

Also, whatever he needed he would go to the research coordinator and she would get it. More mice, slides, and I assume cyanide would come through her also.

 

[jjenny]

I worked for a pediatric neurologist who also did muscular dystrophy research, specifically Duchenne's. There was cyanide in his lab because I did the inventory for the lab when he moved in. The cyanide was used in some kind of research with muscle fibers--it was beyond me so I couldn't explain it. But it's not uncommon in a medical research lab.

Also, whatever he needed he would go to the research coordinator and she would get it. More mice, slides, and I assume cyanide would come through her also.

Yep. Researchers can legally order it. Cyryl Wecht made it sounds like it was so very difficult. But it wouldn't be difficult for someone working in research, like both Dr. Klein and her husband.

 

[kemo]

Cyanide is not one chemical, it is a class of chemicals that have the same toxic effect. In some situations, the exact type of cyanide ingested can be determined. If anyone with ties to Dr. Klein had access to this type of cyanide, it would be very suspicious.

Some types of cyanide have industrial and even "hobby" applications and are not that had to obtain. Every state has some means of identifying anyone who purchases cyanide. Most states require that you justify the purchase and provide proof of identity. There are so many retailers that sell at least one type of cyanide that it might be hard to track down. If you were associated with a research lab, it might be easy to obtain certain types but if limited retailers sell the stuff, it might not be that hard to track down the sale. There are foreign suppliers who may not ask questions or keep records however. The FBI would have the resources to check a lot of retailers.

Creatine is generally used in the form of a white powder that is usually taken disolved in liquid. It has a distinctive but innocuous taste. People will often take 5 to 20 grams per day. As a vehicle for poisoning, it would require that the toxin would have to be mixed in with the entire jar, not just a single capsile, and any taste the toxin could be noticible. Creatine is a white powder as is cyanide so they could probably be mixed together without notice.

Apparently cyanide is used in the production of creatine but that does not mean that it is possible for a "reverse reaction" to occurr in the human body. Cyanides are highly reactive and creatine is considerably more stable; it is unlikely that any significant amount could be generated naturally in the body. Most naturally occuring cyanide forms as a result of heat or combustion. The issue of "natural formation of cyanide" could be settled pretty quickly.

 

[time]

http://www.post-gazette.com/stories...olice-go-to-boston-amid-cyanide-probe-686883/

Pittsburgh police were in Boston this week investigating the death of UPMC physician Autumn Klein, who died last month with "toxic levels" of cyanide in her body.

Dr. Klein and her husband, Robert J. Ferrante, moved to Pittsburgh from Boston in 2011 after Dr. Klein received an offer to become the chief of women's neurology at UPMC.

Pittsburgh police officials did not respond to requests for comment about their visit to Boston. ...<more at link>

 

[time]

There a memorial service today for Dr. Klein

"A memorial service for Doctor Autumn Klein is taking place at the Grace United Methodist Church on North Charles Street in Baltimore."

http://www.abc2news.com/dpp/news/state/memorial-service-for-doctor-autumn-klein

I wonder if her husband will be there. I think her mom lives in Towson, Md., so that must be why there is a memorial service there.

 

[southernnana]

:rose: :rose:


Rest in Peace Dr. Klein. Prayers for your loved ones.

 

[time]

Thursday, May 16, 2013

“It's not a natural death, that's all I know,” said Dr. Karl Williams, the Allegheny County medical examiner. “At this point, all options are open.”

Dr. Autumn Marie Klein, 41, died in UPMC Presbyterian on April 20, three days after she collapsed at her Schenley Farms home. The medical examiner's office has not determined if her death was a homicide, suicide or accident.

Williams said he is awaiting results of the investigation by police, the FBI and District Attorney Stephen A. Zappala Jr.'s office before ruling.

...“Most of the common poisons people turn to are medications or garage poisons like antifreeze,” Trestrail said. “Cyanide is not that common. When you're up against cyanide, you have to look at how is it obtained. Usually, these people have to have some kind of contact with a chemical laboratory or a chemical supplier.”

A lethal dose of cyanide is less than 200 milligrams, Trestrail said. He said the weight of a nickel in the palm of a hand is equivalent to 25 lethal doses of cyanide.

“That's a lot of firepower,” Trestrail said.
Eating cyanide will cause a person to collapse within 10 minutes, Trestrail said.

...And police learned that Ferrante, co-director of the Center for ALS Research and a visiting professor of neurological surgery at Pitt, bought cyanide using a university credit card in the days before his wife's collapse.

It's unknown whether Ferrante used the substance for his research.

...Dr. J. Douglas Bricker, dean of the Duquesne University School of Pharmacy, said cyanide was commonly used in laboratory research years ago.

“There would be a tracking of where it was ordered, who it was ordered from and whose hands it exchanged,” Bricker said. “It falls under other dangerous chemicals that are typically monitored when they are purchased.”

http://triblive.com/news/allegheny/4026891-74/cyanide-medical-poisoning