I think the typicals nowdays is good enough. Since she was an organ donor, I presume they kept her alive on machines until organ removal. I presume she would have to be declared brain dead prior to organ removal.
GUILTY PA - Husband charged in cyanide poisoning death of Dr. Autumn Klein
- Thread starter Wolf Dreamer
- Start date
I think the typicals nowdays is good enough. Since she was an organ donor, I presume they kept her alive on machines until organ removal. I presume she would have to be declared brain dead prior to organ removal.
My point, that if she was on life support, then she wasn't actually "living" all this time. She might have been considered technically alive but machines might have been keeping her alive. I don't think hopsital would give her any antidoes since they didn't know she was poisoned by cyanide. If they believed she had a stroke, then I don't think B12 is prescribed for that.
Oh, ok, got it... I didn't understand that is what you were saying. That actually makes sense, she may have been dead otherwise shortly after arriving at the hospital.
michmi
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The purchase of the cyanide on his university credit card - I can tell you this is a very unorthodox way of getting his supplies. All lab supplies usually are ordered via a research assistant, who writes up the request and then it's submitted to a central person to be purchased. When it's done this way, there is a paper trail that it was ordered and when it is received it is entered into the central purchasing system as received and delivered to 
on this day at this time - usually they would call the research coordinator or assistant to come to sign for and pick it up.
And believe me, for the doctors I worked for (who did research and saw patients a day or two a week), it was a wonder they could wipe their own behind in the bathroom let alone purchase anything needed for their lab THEMSELVES. These are very pampered men and women.
on this day at this time - usually they would call the research coordinator or assistant to come to sign for and pick it up.And believe me, for the doctors I worked for (who did research and saw patients a day or two a week), it was a wonder they could wipe their own behind in the bathroom let alone purchase anything needed for their lab THEMSELVES. These are very pampered men and women.
AlwaysShocked
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"Cyanide is not used to model HD but it can be used to model ALS. It would be important to know if the recent shipment to his lab was a first time thing or a reorder of a product used in ongoing research."
I think this will be one of the easier things for LE to determine.
Interestingly - to me at least - Wikipedia has a really thorough rundown on cyanide in all of its forms. Plus a link to famous cases of cyanide poisonings. One of these is Rasputin, the Russian monk who in the early 1900s exerted an unholy influence on the Russian royal family, most especially on the Czarina.
In researching Russian history, in-depth reading about Rasputin is quite fascinating. For starters, the monk was renowned for his attractiveness to women. Much of which is reputed to be based on his 13.5 inch penis. Which is currently on display, preserved in formaldehyde in a jar, in a "sex museum" in Russia. (I kid you not!)
Moving on from his large penis, the other well-documented fact about Rasputin is his death. He was murdered by group of people close to the royal family who felt he was influencing political decisions of the royals. (The way he originally got close to the royal family is their only son had hemophilia and Rasputin supposedly was able to help the boy when he was in a hemophilic crisis.)
Initially the group of assassins (high society friends of the royals) invited Rasputin to a party where they gave him wine and sweet cakes heavily laced with cyanide. They sat with him and watched as he ate and drank the poisoned items. But he SHOWED NO SIGNS of having ingested the poison.
The story goes on and the assassins ended up shooting him - and he did not die from the gunshot wounds - and then throwing him into a nearby river where his body was found the next day. Upon autopsy, the cause of death was drowning.
(The story of his life and his death is great reading. Assassins were never prosecuted, despite it being known exactly who they were.)
Is there some natural genetic protection against cyanide poisoning in some few people? Who knows? If there is, apparently Rasputin had it.
I am more for the theory that this poor woman was "maintained" on life support for the days she was "alive". And this, along with her becoming an organ donor, is what will do the husband in. Again, with organ donation they do not just take heart, lungs, liver, etc. There are bone banks - with bone being used for reparative surgeries. There are skin banks - with skin being used on burn victims.
RE: Cyril Wecht Cyril is a smart guy who loves to flap his gums in front of a camera. Any camera. But, Cyril is getting old now and Cyril is no chemist. He has a name around here, and if I murdered my wife and had lots of money, yeah, I'd go ahead and "retain him". Just so he couldn't give interviews that went against me.
I think this will be one of the easier things for LE to determine.
Interestingly - to me at least - Wikipedia has a really thorough rundown on cyanide in all of its forms. Plus a link to famous cases of cyanide poisonings. One of these is Rasputin, the Russian monk who in the early 1900s exerted an unholy influence on the Russian royal family, most especially on the Czarina.
In researching Russian history, in-depth reading about Rasputin is quite fascinating. For starters, the monk was renowned for his attractiveness to women. Much of which is reputed to be based on his 13.5 inch penis. Which is currently on display, preserved in formaldehyde in a jar, in a "sex museum" in Russia. (I kid you not!)
Moving on from his large penis, the other well-documented fact about Rasputin is his death. He was murdered by group of people close to the royal family who felt he was influencing political decisions of the royals. (The way he originally got close to the royal family is their only son had hemophilia and Rasputin supposedly was able to help the boy when he was in a hemophilic crisis.)
Initially the group of assassins (high society friends of the royals) invited Rasputin to a party where they gave him wine and sweet cakes heavily laced with cyanide. They sat with him and watched as he ate and drank the poisoned items. But he SHOWED NO SIGNS of having ingested the poison.
The story goes on and the assassins ended up shooting him - and he did not die from the gunshot wounds - and then throwing him into a nearby river where his body was found the next day. Upon autopsy, the cause of death was drowning.
(The story of his life and his death is great reading. Assassins were never prosecuted, despite it being known exactly who they were.)
Is there some natural genetic protection against cyanide poisoning in some few people? Who knows? If there is, apparently Rasputin had it.
I am more for the theory that this poor woman was "maintained" on life support for the days she was "alive". And this, along with her becoming an organ donor, is what will do the husband in. Again, with organ donation they do not just take heart, lungs, liver, etc. There are bone banks - with bone being used for reparative surgeries. There are skin banks - with skin being used on burn victims.
RE: Cyril Wecht Cyril is a smart guy who loves to flap his gums in front of a camera. Any camera. But, Cyril is getting old now and Cyril is no chemist. He has a name around here, and if I murdered my wife and had lots of money, yeah, I'd go ahead and "retain him". Just so he couldn't give interviews that went against me.
The purchase of the cyanide on his university credit card - I can tell you this is a very unorthodox way of getting his supplies. All lab supplies usually are ordered via a research assistant, who writes up the request and then it's submitted to a central person to be purchased. When it's done this way, there is a paper trail that it was ordered and when it is received it is entered into the central purchasing system as received and delivered to
And believe me, for the doctors I worked for (who did research and saw patients a day or two a week), it was a wonder they could wipe their own behind in the bathroom let alone purchase anything needed for their lab THEMSELVES. These are very pampered men and women.
Good point, I would expect the lab supplies to be requisitioned, not purchased on an individuals credit card. This does seem to be the most suspicious thing at this point... the way it was acquired/paid for and that it was only purchased two days before. I guess that begs the question, was it delivered quickly or picked up - I'm a little confused on ordering vs receiving the cyanide.
BBM - interesting question.
And, maybe it's just me but "bigger is better" meets "diminishing returns" somewhere along the way :blushing:
I believe the card was supplied by the University thus would be used for purchases and paid from University account.
Doesn't take long to ship nowdays. Could have been ordered in the morning, shipped in the evening, arrived the next morning.
AlwaysShocked
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time: Yeah, I hear you.
For those interested, here is a link with a photo of the preserved specimen:http://metro.co.uk/2009/10/01/is-this-the-foot-long-preserved-penis-of-rasputin-454549/
Oh, those beloved Russkies! Ya gotta love 'em!
For those interested, here is a link with a photo of the preserved specimen:http://metro.co.uk/2009/10/01/is-this-the-foot-long-preserved-penis-of-rasputin-454549/
Oh, those beloved Russkies! Ya gotta love 'em!
"Sources confirm Dr. Robert Ferrante purchased cyanide with a University of Pittsburgh credit card a few days before his wife, Dr. Autumn Marie Klein, died from a lethal dose of cyanide."
http://pittsburgh.cbslocal.com/2013/05/16/sources-husband-ordered-cyanide-before-wifes-death/
You're correct. Although sometimes there are University cards in individuals names - I'm pretty sure American Express use to do it that way. But even if not, the article makes it sound like it wasn't a purchase order that went through normal routes. You're right again, it could have just arrived the next day so the time different between ordering and receiving is not significant.
This card might have been issued by the University in his name for him to make purchases. It actually is one of a normal routes to purchase supplies.
Yeah, probably something like this
http://cfo.pitt.edu/pexpress/payments/pCard.php
Although it seems restricted, no hazardous materials can be purchased
I believ cyanide would be considered a controlled substance rather than hazardous material. Since if it's in a closed bottle, it's not a danger.
I thought I had read somewhere there was an autopsy:
"...investigators have not yet revealed an official cause of death for Dr. Autumn Klein, but an autopsy revealed toxic levels of cyanide in her system."
http://www.baltimorenewsjournal.com...tumn-klein-to-be-held-in-baltimore-on-friday/
"An autopsy found high levels of cyanide in her system."
http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/video/police-clues-doctors-cyanide-death-19108151
I can't tell if this is misreporting based on what the medical examiner originally said or not.
"...investigators have not yet revealed an official cause of death for Dr. Autumn Klein, but an autopsy revealed toxic levels of cyanide in her system."
http://www.baltimorenewsjournal.com...tumn-klein-to-be-held-in-baltimore-on-friday/
"An autopsy found high levels of cyanide in her system."
http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/video/police-clues-doctors-cyanide-death-19108151
I can't tell if this is misreporting based on what the medical examiner originally said or not.
I think what they should have said is a blood test rather than autopsy.
They must have mixed that up otherwise, I don't think she would have been cremated so quickly? IDK
AlwaysShocked
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I think there are many errors of fact within news reports. I know that within my own family - a long time ago - we had a relative tragically killed in a bus accident that involved numerous people being injured. Our relative was the only death.
There were numerous errors in published reports of the incident. Things that were mere rumors were published as fact in early reports and then republished again and again. Never corrected despite newspapers being notified they were publishing incorrect information.
So someone here ASSUMED there was an autopsy. And wrote it that way and it was published that way. Now that will be republished time and time again.
There were numerous errors in published reports of the incident. Things that were mere rumors were published as fact in early reports and then republished again and again. Never corrected despite newspapers being notified they were publishing incorrect information.
So someone here ASSUMED there was an autopsy. And wrote it that way and it was published that way. Now that will be republished time and time again.
michmi
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A university card normally would be supplied for expenses related to travel between facilities, conferences, expenses during travel. Never for lab supplies.
Every facility I worked for had a very specific procedure for ordering post-it notes, let alone cyanide. Has to be purchased via the purchasing department, from a specific facility that has a contract with the university, etc. The reason for this is because the university signs supplier contracts with particular companies (pricing is given by the company according to projected volume). All ordering done through the purchasing department acts as a check to make sure things are being ordered through the correct company, AND that the supplies are actually ordered, received by the facility and delivered to the department.
Prior to tracking purchases like this, you wouldn't believe what would be delivered to the facility and spirited off to be sold somewhere (from scalpels to pens, didn't matter what). The department would say "we never got it", the company would have to send another shipment.
Example--you need office supplies, you have to put an order in and the purchasing department will order them from Staples, where they have a contract. You can't just use a credit card and decide to order from Office Depot one day. If everyone did that, the contracted company wouldn't be getting the volume of orders that was projected, which is what the pricing was based on.
You can't just decide you might run out of cyanide and order it on the fly (EDIT: Well you can, but it sure sticks out like a sore thumb)
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