PA PA - Judy Smith, 50, Philadelphia, 10 April 1997

[JeannieC]

Interestingly, there is no bio on him. The public has no idea where he came from or anything about his family or childhood upbringing. I think his background was sealed by the courts for some reason (please correct me, if I'm wrong). I don't understand why that is exceptable to not know anything about this serial killer! What could they be hiding! Why is it a secret? Will it embarass someone or get someone in trouble?

Nothing has been sealed about Hilton. Le knows a lot about him as far as his childhood. I believe I posted the recordings Le had with his mother. The gap that exists it when and where he was during a very long period of time. All they know is he went from mountain area to mountain area but can't pinpoint the dates and times.

He worked but not for extended periods of time especially after his third divorce.

His mother quit going to see him because of his drug use. She was a strange woman. Her son was the smartest boy, perfect boy, etc. Her second husband hated him.

You should listen to the recordings.......very telling

 

[JeannieC]

Since the Philly police did not find women's cosmetics in the hotel room and Judy's children claim that it was like her not to have cosmetics, maybe LE thought she could have been a closet lesbian. Maybe, they were looking at all the angles.

Judith didn't wear much makeup and the makeup she did wear she carried in her red bag. There is no indication she was a lesbian. She was married three times.

 

[JeannieC]

Thanks for the links!

I wonder what they mean by her being dragged a short distance? Was it from the road, which was 20 minutes away or was it only a matter of yards away from the "campsite"? They found a paperback book nearby and they state that it was a campsite. To me, it seems like she was reading the book, or had it by her side when attacked. Who would take the time to bring her book to the burial area, along with the body? I also wonder if she had a fire going too. A guy like Hilton could have found her camping alone, because of the campfire. All in all, I know nobody here can answer most of these questions, but it seems that she was already camping and reading her book when someone attacked her. It seems that she was dragged from the campsite to an area off to the side somewhere. This perp must have been carrying a shovel though!

From what I gather she was dragged a few feet to the existing hole that was left from a tree having fallen. She was at a make shift campsite and I believe they said there had been a campfire.

 

[McSpy]

Judith didn't wear much makeup and the makeup she did wear she carried in her red bag. There is no indication she was a lesbian. She was married three times.

True, but LE was trying to figure out why she was there and who had killed her. Perhaps, they were not sure if the women's clothing found in the backpack were hers or the killer's. I read an article where it stated that the closest house was something like a mile away. Maybe, that house was the lesbian household? I have a feeling they interviewed the woman there, because it was the closest house to the scene of the murder. LE probably asked them if they had seen or heard anything. I wouldn't think LE knew lesbians lived there, unless they were called to that location for a domestic situation or a crime of some sort prior to the murder. Although, maybe that part of the country is very conservative and have taken notice to them living there. I guess I'm splitting hairs here, but I think the police were dumbfounded about why Judy was in NC. They were probably turning over every rock to see what made sense. It certainly is a mystery.
I think Hilton or someone like him were more likely her killer though.

 

[McSpy]

From what I gather she was dragged a few feet to the existing hole that was left from a tree having fallen. She was at a make shift campsite and I believe they said there had been a campfire.

Thanks. This makes sense. I wonder if the backpack and book were found in the hole too? I recall that some of her bones were scattered, probably by animals.

 

[JeannieC]

True, but LE was trying to figure out why she was there and who had killed her. Perhaps, they were not sure if the women's clothing found in the backpack were hers or the killer's. I read an article where it stated that the closest house was something like a mile away. Maybe, that house was the lesbian household? I have a feeling they interviewed the woman there, because it was the closest house to the scene of the murder. LE probably asked them if they had seen or heard anything. I wouldn't think LE knew lesbians lived there, unless they were called to that location for a domestic situation or a crime of some sort prior to the murder. Although, maybe that part of the country is very conservative and have taken notice to them living there. I guess I'm splitting hairs here, but I think the police were dumbfounded about why Judy was in NC. They were probably turning over every rock to see what made sense. It certainly is a mystery.
I think Hilton or someone like him were more likely her killer though.

Good Points! LE was trying to find out what led her to NC. That is a big mystery. The clothing in the New backpack was New clothing. Assumed to be Judith's. Unanswered question...when and where did she purchase all these things.

That house a mile from the scene was the lesbians' house. You are right. LE probably questioned them and probably mentioned them because they had ruled them out as suspects, and yes it is a very conservative area. NC is in the bible belt. I never thought of it that way. Thanks for a different few.

From what I think I read........the book and backpack were found close to the grave but I don't think it said they were in the grave. She was basically put in the existing indented area left from a fallen tree and barely covered with a little dirt and leaves. Her remains were scattered down the mountain by animals.

I really wish we could find out what brought her to NC. That to me is the missing link in this puzzle.

 

[kemo]

There are so many unanswered questions here. I was not aware that the clothing in the blue backpack was definitely NEW (does anyone have a reference). If it would fit Judy, it's a good guess its hers (I'm willing to bet DNA was never tested).

The book and a flashlight would not normally be something someone would take on a short Day Hike, (nor would a backpack with extra clothing). Those items would be more consistent with CAMPING.

She was only 1/4 mile from the parking/picnic area. One could easily carry basic camping gear that far without backpacking equipment and there is evidence there had been a fire there (although certainly no proof that it was part of Judy's "camp". It could have been set by anyone at any time).

It is possible that Judy was camping rather than hiking when she was killed but it would have been rather cold and her assailant would have taken most of her equipment back with him (or her). Camping in those very cold mountains would be even stranger for Judy than hiking.

I have done a little research on Gary Hilton and I am not so convinced that he is responsible for the "reign of terror" throughout the South East that has been attributed to him. While his name has come up in connection with literally dozens of unsolved murders or disappearances in rural areas, they really don't fit any particular pattern. (The exception being Rosanna Milan in 2005). There have been a number of solved homicides on South Eastern hiking trails but not a lot of unsolved ones.

 

[JeannieC]

There are so many unanswered questions here. I was not aware that the clothing in the blue backpack was definitely NEW (does anyone have a reference). If it would fit Judy, it's a good guess its hers (I'm willing to bet DNA was never tested).

The book and a flashlight would not normally be something someone would take on a short Day Hike, (nor would a backpack with extra clothing). Those items would be more consistent with CAMPING.

She was only 1/4 mile from the parking/picnic area. One could easily carry basic camping gear that far without backpacking equipment and there is evidence there had been a fire there (although certainly no proof that it was part of Judy's "camp". It could have been set by anyone at any time).

It is possible that Judy was camping rather than hiking when she was killed but it would have been rather cold and her assailant would have taken most of her equipment back with him (or her). Camping in those very cold mountains would be even stranger for Judy than hiking.

I have done a little research on Gary Hilton and I am not so convinced that he is responsible for the "reign of terror" throughout the South East that has been attributed to him. While his name has come up in connection with literally dozens of unsolved murders or disappearances in rural areas, they really don't fit any particular pattern. (The exception being Rosanna Milan in 2005). There have been a number of solved homicides on South Eastern hiking trails but not a lot of unsolved ones.

I

I read something today about GH and it mentioned murder, assault, sexual assault and cannabalism and that wasn't something I had read anywhere about him. GH also visited mountain areas in the north and west. He disappeared into the mountains. He implied in interviews that there were more remains out there (I'm not certain exactly how he put it. He could have been jerking LE's chains).

I've never heard of a serial killer who began killing at 58 years old (I think that was the first one he was convicted of).

If only we had DNA on Judith.

I believe I read in a much earlier post that the clothing was new in her backpack. It could have belonged to someone else.

You're right about her camping and I can't imagine she was camping alone. Whoever was with her killed her imo.

 

[McSpy]

There are so many unanswered questions here. I was not aware that the clothing in the blue backpack was definitely NEW (does anyone have a reference). If it would fit Judy, it's a good guess its hers (I'm willing to bet DNA was never tested).

The book and a flashlight would not normally be something someone would take on a short Day Hike, (nor would a backpack with extra clothing). Those items would be more consistent with CAMPING.

She was only 1/4 mile from the parking/picnic area. One could easily carry basic camping gear that far without backpacking equipment and there is evidence there had been a fire there (although certainly no proof that it was part of Judy's "camp". It could have been set by anyone at any time).

It is possible that Judy was camping rather than hiking when she was killed but it would have been rather cold and her assailant would have taken most of her equipment back with him (or her). Camping in those very cold mountains would be even stranger for Judy than hiking.

I snipped for focus.
The book is not something I would bring on a day hike, but I would bring a backpack, flashlight, and some warm clothing. Judy was from the northeast, so she was probably thinking about the possibility of the light fading early and the mountains getting colder, especially if she didn't make it to the base by dark. Those are typical items one would bring along on a day hike in the mountains in the northeast. However, the lack of a tent and sleeping bag bugs me, which to me would have been a confirmation of someone planning to stay the night in the woods. Although, IIRC, she had a blanket.

Just some thoughts

 

[JeannieC]

I snipped for focus.
The book is not something I would bring on a day hike, but I would bring a backpack, flashlight, and some warm clothing. Judy was from the northeast, so she was probably thinking about the possibility of the light fading early and the mountains getting colder, especially if she didn't make it to the base by dark. Those are typical items one would bring along on a day hike in the mountains in the northeast. However, the lack of a tent and sleeping bag bugs me, which to me would have been a confirmation of someone planning to stay the night in the woods. Although, IIRC, she had a blanket.

Just some thoughts

The girl they suspect GH murdered but they couldn't prove had gone with him into a store and purchased a new sleeping bag. I believe it was never located. Maybe Judith did too. Just a thought. (maybe not a good one lol)

 

[McSpy]

The girl they suspect GH murdered but they couldn't prove had gone with him into a store and purchased a new sleeping bag. I believe it was never located. Maybe Judith did too. Just a thought. (maybe not a good one lol)

I just had a thought. What if rained, while she was up there? Imagine a down pour in the middle of the night. She didn't have any cover, as far as we know. Maybe her warm clothes in the backpack, included a waterproof jacket? Perhaps, she read about the local forecast in the newspaper and it stated that it would be clear. Although, in my experience, there can be morning dew, which can make outdoor sleeping uncomfortable (dampness). Although, a fire would remedy that. It is possible she took a chance with the weather. I'm just having a hard time believing she would camp out alone without certain provisions. I would be concerned about bears too.

 

[McSpy]

Another thought. If I was stuck for a place to stay. I would have rather slept in the shrubs next to the mansion. Lol! It was probably safer and one could probably find a cubby hole or doorway to shelter from the rain, if that would have happened. Maybe she was downright brave.

 

[McSpy]

Thought number 3: Did LE find matches or a lighter? Also, it doesn't look like she had a knife, swiss army type knife, small ax or saw. She must have used fallen branches for the fire, which were small enough to break by hand.

It would be ashame if she used the receipts from her purchases to start the fire. If LE found money in her pockets, I'm surprised they didn't find any receipts. Possibly, she threw them out though.

 

[JeannieC]

I'm still baffled about the dark colored sedan (among other things) with all the things in the back seat making it appear that someone lived out of the car. I would love to know what kind of car Hilton drove during that time. That was one thing LE tried to find out in interviews with him, his ex-wives, and his mother.

 

[McSpy]

I'm still baffled about the dark colored sedan (among other things) with all the things in the back seat making it appear that someone lived out of the car. I would love to know what kind of car Hilton drove during that time. That was one thing LE tried to find out in interviews with him, his ex-wives, and his mother.

Me too! Where did that car come from!? If she was going to sleep inside, the vehicle must of had bench opposed to bucket seats. Unless, she was able to make the front seats go way back. I'm still having a hard time believing a professional woman of age 50 from Newton, MA (VERY expensive area close to Boston) would sleep in a car, instead of finding a room somewhere. I wonder if she was known for being cheap about things like that? Why not get a room somewhere? Even in a cheap motel?? Seems odd!

 

[McSpy]

Me too! Where did that car come from!? If she was going to sleep inside, the vehicle must of had bench opposed to bucket seats. Unless, she was able to make the front seats go way back. I'm still having a hard time believing a professional woman of age 50 from Newton, MA (VERY expensive area close to Boston) would sleep in a car, instead of finding a room somewhere. I wonder if she was known for being cheap about things like that? Why not get a room somewhere? Even in a cheap motel?? Seems odd!

Here's another thought on this. Maybe, she did run into Hilton and he seemed mild mannered and trustworthy----at first. Supposedly, he was a good conartist. Perhaps, he had the ax, knife, and matches to make camp. Just a possibility.

 

[JeannieC]

I might be barking up the wrong tree and it might be someone other than GH. Maybe someone like GH. He did visit that area though. I just don't believe she was there alone.

Too much points to another person being there. The sandwiches, the car, leaving Philly. imo

 

[McSpy]

Right now, I'm watching "Dateline", which is featuring Gary Hilton!

 

[xLiqoricex]

So I haven't been on here in a few days. Been busy packing to move and preparing for hurricane Irene- blah. I hope I don't blow away, lol. The day the hurricane is supposed to be hit we're supposed to move so it will be interesting!

Anyway, I caught up to everyones posts and I like what I have read. I just wish there was more proof that GH really killed all the people he talked about. I mean he supposedly had a record of bad behavior but I just wish there was more proof. Maybe he was just some nutty guy who traveled in wooded areas who made up stories or talked about things he heard from other people. I don't know. I'm probably totally wrong, lol.

I am stumped as to why Judy would not have had a tent and such; a place for shelter. I would be pretty scared to sleep out in the middle of the open in the woods like that. I mean what was she thinking?! She was either brave or really wasn't thinking clearly. Maybe Judy slept in the car at night and moved to the wooded area during the day. Either way, someone has the car and God knows where the car is now if it's destroyed and gone forever.

I just don't think the lesbians had anything to do with it. But I guess it's good they came in contact with them just in case.


I think Judy left Philly on her own and was murdered in NC by someone. But I don't think someone was with her right from Philly. But that's just MO.

McSpy, you'll have to tell us about the Dateline show featuring GH. I don't have a TV right now =[[. I miss the ID channel UGH!

 

[kemo]

The "Dateline" Show on Gary Hilton was very interesting but it didn't really shed any light on any possible crimes going "way back". It focused on how the Emerson, Dunlap and Bryant cases were solved and there were enough taped interviews with GH that you could get an idea what he was all about.

There is little question he is a stone cold sociopath. That is not to say he is incapable of displaying a little charm when the need arises. He had an IQ of 112, I believe, which is no genius but sufficient to pass himself off as a knowledgeable, experienced outdoorsman in the Southern Appalachians. I am unaware of any unsolved killings or disappearances that would fit this pattern.

I am a day hiker and backpacker and I pay attention to the possibility of "trailside" crime. It is however, quite rare. Besides GH, there was a serial killer in the San Francisco area dubbed the "trailside killer" in the 1980's. There have also been a number of murders along the Appalachian Trail and other "high profile" opportunistic killing on hiking trails in the Northwest and South but they are very rare. I live in California and I am not aware of anything like that in this state since the "Trailside killer".

Overall, a remote trail can be a perfect place to commit a murder (no witnesses, no ties to the victim or location, multiple escape routes etc). Hikers however, carry little money or items worth stealing and younger women rarely hike alone. Most of these killings appear to have been "killing for the sake of killing" situations.

My suspicion is that whoever killed Judy Smith wanted whatever cash or other valuables she may have had and figured that he (or she) could probably get away with it. There does not appear to be a pattern of similar crimes in the area in the late 1990's. Could it have been CH? Sure, but it just as easily been someone else..