PA PA - Judy Smith, 50, Philadelphia, 10 April 1997

  • #441
I was just thinking about this case yesterday and googled Judy Smith to see if there's anything new on the case. Her murder is still unsolved.

I still can't figure out why she ended up in Asheville and I'm still skeptical about the sightings of her there. I've been to the area of Asheville many times where she was reported seen and it's so touristy I can't imagine how or why anyone would remember her being in stores months later. But supposing they did remember her, in one account I found online she told a sales clerk she was shopping for her daughter, then the sales clerk said she appeared to be trying to get a young woman in the store to leave with her. This makes me wonder if she was delusional and thought the young woman was her daughter.

Some have speculated that she left her driver's license home on purpose because she didn't want to go on the trip with her husband. She was said to be a seasoned traveler and this has caused some to think "forgetting" her license was deliberate. But what if it wasn't? What if something was already going wrong with her?

I don't know whether she and her husband argued after she made it to the hotel on a later flight. I think bringing flowers to him indicates she expected him to be upset, unless they were in the habit of buying flowers for each other as a way of apologizing. Flowers seem like an odd choice of apology gift to bring a man, but then I don't know her husband and perhaps he loved flowers. If not, her odd choice of gift may also be evidence of some type of disordered thinking.

It could be they had words and she did decide to take off. Or it could be she became confused while out sightseeing. Maybe the idea of taking off to Asheville without telling anyone made perfect sense to her based on whatever was going on in her mind.

Someone in a confused or manic state of mind would be an easy victim for the wrong kind of person. Although she was said to be an intelligent woman, she was also said to have been willing to help people in need, so if she wasn't operating with her full mental faculties for some reason she may have been taken in by someone with bad intentions.

I'm wondering if her killer took the red backpack she was never without. A different backpack and some sunglasses were found with her remains, but one account I read states that these are believed to belong to her killer. I think another theory is possible: that these items belonged to another victim. It seems senseless for the killer to leave his own personal items at the scene.

It would appear that she willingly went hiking, either with someone else or alone, since she had evidently purchased clothing suitable for hiking. Since those who believe they saw her in Asheville saw her alone, I'm thinking maybe her killer was someone she met in the woods. There are some strange characters who hang out in the woods. Some are just homeless, some have mental issues, some are incapable of living in normal society, and some are up to illegal and/or violent activities.

If the dental records of the deceased person hadn't matched Judy, and if the deceased person hadn't been wearing Judy's wedding ring, I would suspect a misidentification has been made. It's just so odd she ended up where she did that I still wish I DNA comparison had been done.
 
  • #442
Thanks for bumping.

There are two questions that, potentially, may not have the same answer.

1. How did Judy Smith get to NC?

2. Who killed Judy Smith?

You might want to look at the case of Brenda Heist, who disappeared from York, PA in 2002. She was found alive in Florida after 11 years. She, basically, hitch hiked her way Florida. https://www.cbsnews.com/news/mom-brenda-heist-resurfaces-11-years-after-abandoning-kids/

I'm sure Webseuths has a thread on it.

The answer to Question 1 might be that she just got a ride with someone.
 
  • #443
I saw this on Unsolved a few months ago and wished I never have because it has been under my skin ever since!! What a frustratingly bizarre case where nothing seems to make sense.. I mean does a woman get out of bed, put on the same clothes she wore the day before and just decides "Meh, I think I'm just gonna go for a stroll through the woods in North Carolina.." ?!? Another thing I find ironic is that if you look on a map, Boston to Philadelphia to Asheville is pretty much a straight shot.. Did she plan this or did she go all Margot Kidder and have no idea what the hell she was doing?
 
  • #444
I checked my mapping program again. Yes, you are correct, about 8.75 hours. Walking would take weeks.

The husband actually went to the then Speaker of the State House, who addressing the convention, and asked for help with getting the police involved. I've thought that the political intervention might have been the reason the Phila Police were hostile.

I'm wondering if she had a friend that was a trucker?
Could be how she got to Asheville she hitchhiked.. and as a way to say thank you, bought him a miniature truck!
 
  • #445
Welcome to Websleuths,

Could be how she got to Asheville she hitchhiked.. and as a way to say thank you, bought him a miniature truck!

I was thinking that maybe she was having a rendezvous with a trucker.
 
  • #446
Welcome to Websleuths,

Yeah, there's no record of her taking a plane or a bus.. and he wouldn't come forward because truck drivers can get in deep trouble for picking up hitchhikers..

I was thinking that maybe she was having a rendezvous with a trucker.
 
  • #447
Welcome to Websleuths,



I was thinking that maybe she was having a rendezvous with a trucker.
And he wouldn't have come forward because he could get in serious trouble for picking up hitchhikers.. even more so if he was her killer..
 
  • #448
And he wouldn't have come forward because he could get in serious trouble for picking up hitchhikers.. even more so if he was her killer..

It isn't illegal to hitchhike in PA. I doubt it anyone picking her up would get in any legal trouble for it.

However, since she was down there, and alive, I don't think it was hitchhiking.
 
  • #449
It isn't illegal to hitchhike in PA. I doubt it anyone picking her up would get in any legal trouble for it.

However, since she was down there, and alive, I don't think it was hitchhiking.

I was going to say I hope that isn't illegal. I've hitchhiked in PA. Getting to NC by driving requires a drive through VA that is about 4 hours. It's a long boring drive. She could have taken a train to NY for shopping. She could have hiked in many places that were closer.
 
  • #450
It isn't illegal to hitchhike in PA. I doubt it anyone picking her up would get in any legal trouble for it.

However, since she was down there, and alive, I don't think it was hitchhiking.
No. Not illegal to hitchhike, but do trucking companies allow their drivers to pick up hitchhikers?? With it possibly being an insurance issue I bet it's frowned upon at least.. it could explain how she got down there, but sheds no light on what happened to her. I have to admit, the thought of being alone in those woods at night gives me the creeps..
 
  • #451
No. Not illegal to hitchhike, but do trucking companies allow their drivers to pick up hitchhikers?? With it possibly being an insurance issue I bet it's frowned upon at least.. it could explain how she got down there, but sheds no light on what happened to her. I have to admit, the thought of being alone in those woods at night gives me the creeps..

The area she was found in is it a place that is popular with hikers?
 
  • #452
Sort of. It was 0.25 miles away from a parking lot and popular trail in Pisgah National Park (according to this thread and not a source I can find). That, and the fact that she was dragged to a hole left by fallen trees and covered with only leaves makes me wonder if itwasn’t premeditated. That sounds like a last minute burial site. On the other hand, I don’t think it’s uncommon for murderers to be casual about that kind of thing.

Can anyone clarify the timeline? What time are the flights she missed and then took, and when did her husband claim to have seen her last, when were the sightings of her, and when were her remains discovered? The exact times might give us more insight into what happened, given that it’s about a 12 hour drive from Philadelphia to Asheville, and about a 15 hour drive from Boston to Asheville.
 
  • #453
It makes the most sense to me that if the sighting of her in the dark sedan is trustworthy that she probably got that car early on since it is filled with stuff and it sounds like she did a fair amount of shopping on the way down. I don’t know how none of her relatives knew anything—it could be that Judy planned this from early on and saved up cash so as not to be traced.

I can be convinced that going to Asheville isn’t THAT weird, because it is a pretty touristy place and even going to Pisgah makes sense because it is a national forest—a tourist attraction. But that thing about buying a toy truck really makes me think she met someone with a child! I am super curious about the time of the sighting at Biltmore. In today’s money, $30 is only about $50 and I imagine the food at Biltmore was pretty expensive so that isn’t very many sandwiches.

Also—how certain was SS that he saw Judy that morning? It sounds like he probably would have gone to sleep before she arrived on the later flight and might have woken up before him (although the stuff about him having breakfast before her means he probably did see someone that morning). He could also just be lying to save face, I guess.
 
  • #454
Welcome to Websleuths, Blueso.

It makes the most sense to me that if the sighting of her in the dark sedan is trustworthy that she probably got that car early on since it is filled with stuff and it sounds like she did a fair amount of shopping on the way down. I don’t know how none of her relatives knew anything—it could be that Judy planned this from early on and saved up cash so as not to be traced.

I can be convinced that going to Asheville isn’t THAT weird, because it is a pretty touristy place and even going to Pisgah makes sense because it is a national forest—a tourist attraction. But that thing about buying a toy truck really makes me think she met someone with a child! I am super curious about the time of the sighting at Biltmore. In today’s money, $30 is only about $50 and I imagine the food at Biltmore was pretty expensive so that isn’t very many sandwiches.

Also—how certain was SS that he saw Judy that morning? It sounds like he probably would have gone to sleep before she arrived on the later flight and might have woken up before him (although the stuff about him having breakfast before her means he probably did see someone that morning). He could also just be lying to save face, I guess.

I'm not familiar with the Biltmore sighting or the sedan.

It is about a 14 hour straight drive from Boston to Ashville, and about 9.5 hours from Phila.

SS seems to be solid on seeing her. He really pushed the Phila police to investigate.
 
  • #455
Sort of. It was 0.25 miles away from a parking lot and popular trail in Pisgah National Park (according to this thread and not a source I can find). That, and the fact that she was dragged to a hole left by fallen trees and covered with only leaves makes me wonder if itwasn’t premeditated. That sounds like a last minute burial site. On the other hand, I don’t think it’s uncommon for murderers to be casual about that kind of thing.

Can anyone clarify the timeline? What time are the flights she missed and then took, and when did her husband claim to have seen her last, when were the sightings of her, and when were her remains discovered? The exact times might give us more insight into what happened, given that it’s about a 12 hour drive from Philadelphia to Asheville, and about a 15 hour drive from Boston to Asheville.
My thoughts are she either planned this a long time ago.. possibly she only married Jeffrey for his money.. squirreling money away here and there, I mean how else did she have$$?? Her credit card wasn't used.. she wouldve almost had to have bought a car, no record of her taking a plane or a bus.. even in 1997 you had to have a credit card to rent a car. Clearly whoever killed her saw she was by herself, probably the only car in the parking lot, probably didn't mean to kill her, but Judy being loud like she was probably put up one hell of a fight and whoever did it took her car to get away because where is it? Where are the keys?? I have a FB group on this subject, titled What happened to Judy Smith.. lol I just have to know what happened!!
 
  • #456
The area she was found in is it a place that is popular with hikers?
I heard where she was found was off the beaten path.. like if you don't know it's there you won't find it.. call me crazy but why would a woman with supposedly horrible arthritis in her knee go hiking there in the first place? It's practically all uphill and steep..
 
  • #457
My thoughts are she either planned this a long time ago.. possibly she only married Jeffrey for his money.. squirreling money away here and there, I mean how else did she have$$?? Her credit card wasn't used.. she wouldve almost had to have bought a car, no record of her taking a plane or a bus.. even in 1997 you had to have a credit card to rent a car. Clearly whoever killed her saw she was by herself, probably the only car in the parking lot, probably didn't mean to kill her, but Judy being loud like she was probably put up one hell of a fight and whoever did it took her car to get away because where is it? Where are the keys?? I have a FB group on this subject, titled What happened to Judy Smith.. lol I just have to know what happened!!

I don't think her husband had any money. She flew into Philadelphia, so she didn't have a car.
 
  • #458
My thoughts are she either planned this a long time ago.. possibly she only married Jeffrey for his money.. squirreling money away here and there, I mean how else did she have$$?? Her credit card wasn't used.. she wouldve almost had to have bought a car, no record of her taking a plane or a bus.. even in 1997 you had to have a credit card to rent a car. Clearly whoever killed her saw she was by herself, probably the only car in the parking lot, probably didn't mean to kill her, but Judy being loud like she was probably put up one hell of a fight and whoever did it took her car to get away because where is it? Where are the keys?? I have a FB group on this subject, titled What happened to Judy Smith.. lol I just have to know what happened!!
 
  • #459
Oh, oops my second theory is she had supposedly had a physical not long before she went missing, perhaps she found out she was going to die.. she decides to go away so as not to be a burden to her family? Maybe an inoperable brain tumor? Could explain her strange behavior a great deal. I think her family knew more than they were letting on. If my mom had a brain tumor or some sort of disability I wouldn't go advertising it, if she went missing maybe i would, but people are different. I would just like to get more backstory..
 
  • #460
I don't think her husband had any money. She flew into Philadelphia, so she didn't have a car.
Her husband was a lawyer and they lived in a pretty posh area of Boston.
 

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