PA PA - Judy Smith, 50, Philadelphia, 10 April 1997

[McSpy]

Good theory. A thought crossed my mind when reading your thoughts. Maybe someone did pose as Judith. Her rings were missing.

They found hair on her clothes that resembled horse hair. Judith loved horses so LE thought she had visited a lodge where they had horses. It was written about in the article about the "Boys from Bumcombe" (I might have the title wrong.) LE had the lodge checking the register but It doesn't look like they found her name or I think it would have mentioned.

I don't know if they did DNA or not. I don't believe they did or they would know for certain whether it was horse hair or not. Assuming they kept it. I read one article that said her clothes had slice marks which could have been from a knife. No knife was found at the scene.

Judith was a big woman so she almost had to walk to the camp on her own (or forced). It was a very steep area and carrying her would have been almost impossible. Her husband could not have gotten there at all. He had trouble breathing with normal walking.

I wonder if the hair was tested or could it have been hair from a bear. Maybe she wasn't murdered but attacked by a bear. Maybe it wasn't a shallow grave but an area Judith had dug out just enough to lay down in to protect from the wind and to not be seen by a preditator. For safety. She was an experienced camper. The blanket was in the shallow grave too. Why bury the blanket and not the rest of her things?

Black bears rarely attack adult humans but if she ran into a mother with cubs it might have attacked. A male would attack too. If she fell asleep and woke up to a bear standing over her she didn't have a chance.

If she had food with her (she purchased a bunch of sandwiches) a bear would come to her camp. Maybe she lost the rings during the attack or when other animals chewed on her corpse. Sickening but possible. The bear could have taken her head off in the attack.

My question to LE.......could it have been a bear?

Here is an article about the bears in Piscah that leads me to wonder:
http://www.northcarolinaguide.net/bear-stories-ncs-black-bears/


The next thing is the car. Suppose she rented the car and it was towed as abandoned or picked up by the rental company. They didn't use computers as much in 1997 so it would have been harder to know who towed it or who rented it to her. There were places at used dealerships that used to rent cars for cash off their lots. If it was towed the towing company might have called the dealership and the dealership could have picked it up not even knowing the circumstances. The tow company could have kept it on their lot for a certain amount of time, applied for the title, and sold it.

Remember NC wasn't looking for her..............

my bold

I hope they had the animal hair tested or looked at by a professional to be sure of what kind of animal it came from. She could have got that animal hair on her clothes in NC or back home, but you make an excellent point about the bears. It could have been a transfer of animal hair from someone else's clothes as well.

 

[McSpy]

Does anyone know what the motive would have been for her husband to kill her? If he didn't want her anymore, why not just get a divorce? I doubt he would have had to pay her much alimony, if any at all -- they hadn't been married long, and she worked as a nurse. There doesn't seem to be any evidence of a girlfriend or other woman in the husband's life. Did she have a life insurance policy that he collected on, or anything like that?

Good point about the Life Insurance policy. I don't know if LE checked on that, but it is usually a course of action they would have taken in their investigation. Your question does make me wonder if Judy had a large bank account, or if there was any Will or prenuptial agreement. If the husband was involved maybe he just did it because he was angry.

 

[McSpy]

Not trying to be gross or anything, but maybe she was the type that goes commando? I can see her maybe wearing the same bra again.

In my opinion, not changing the bottoms would be gross, especially putting them back on after taking a shower. If LE found no used underpants, that makes me think the husband had something to do with his wife's murder, unless she had odd hygiene habits. The other possibility is that she had cleaned them in the hotel sink the night before, but I can't see someone in a high income bracket doing that on their first night of their trip. Maybe on the 5th, 6th or 7th night, but on the first night seems unlikely to me.

 

[McSpy]

There are a lot of inconsistancies in this. She missed the first plane from Massachusets to Philly. Her husband took the first flight. She forgot to take her driver's license to the airport and had to go back home. She took a later flight alone. Her ticket was used but no one definitively identified her as being on the plane.

There is no evidence that she was in the hotel room but her husband said she was and was taking a shower when he left for the conference. No female items were found in the room. Not even her dirty underwear. She put the same clothes back on and left.

Its 630 miles to the Pisgah National Forest in Asheville, NC from Philly. At least a 10 -12 hour drive. Buses don't require id's. She might have taken a bus but they didn't find evidence of that. A bus trip could have taken 24 hours........... No plane ride to NC either.

She was sited in NC in several shops. No one mentioned she was with anyone.

She was mistaken for a homeless crazy woman.

It is a real baffling case. Her husband might be totally innocent.

Wasn't there a suitcase of clean clothes, but no cosmetics or dirty clothes?

 

[McSpy]

This is kind of far out there but I'm going to throw it out in the open. Maybe someone staged her death to make it look like she left on her own free will to go hiking or to get away from her husband. If this is what happened, the killer had to have known her personality and her hobbies to know that she liked hiking every now and then. I think her idea of sight seeing would have given the person an opportunity to take advantage. This also wouldn't put the husband at the scene so he could have hired someone to do the job for him. He would know the ins and outs of a situation like this. Then again, I don't see how this could work because I'm sure they would have found someone elses DNA on her items. Did they even check for DNA? I mean my theory doesn't really explain the supposed sightings of her. Unless it was someone pretending to be her. Or the sightings were really her and the killer followed her along her trail and then killed her when she was isolated. I don't know. Even my theory has holes in it .

I think it is very plausible that someone staged her death in some way. There is also a possibility that the murderer made it convoluted to confuse LE. As for DNA, I think the testing wasn't as good as today. LE should consider having the evidence looked at again, because the technology has improved a lot since the late 90s.

 

[McSpy]

If she had food with her (she purchased a bunch of sandwiches) a bear would come to her camp. Maybe she lost the rings during the attack or when other animals chewed on her corpse. Sickening but possible. The bear could have taken her head off in the attack.

Maybe, she bought some of those sandwiches for someone else too. The person, who was her killer, asked her to get the sandwiches. He did this because he didn't want to be seen by anyone, so he used an excuse to get her to go into the sandwich shop without him.

Just a thought.

 

[McSpy]

I might be mistaken but I thought I read in an earlier article that she was not computer savy. She seemed to like the outdoors better than being cooped up. I gathered that from the hiking trips she made on her own.

I wonder if the trip across Europe was with a group. Thailand was alone. Maybe she had friends or a friend from one of those trips. Don't forget the ex-husbands. I think I read that her children were from her second marriage.

That would make Smith her third.

I wish I knew a little bit more about her personality and habits. Maybe, she was too trusting. Perhaps, she was a flower child from the 60s at heart and didn't think twice about taking off to commune with nature. I'd like to hear more from her relatives and friends about her life. I don't trust her husband's version. He thinks she may have gone crazy, which could be true, but wouldn't there have been proof of it before the Philly trip?

As for the ex-husbands, she had been with her present husband for 10 years and her children were adults as far as I know, so it seems unlikely one of these husbands would have a motive to hurt her. However, it would be a good idea for LE to question them about her personality and habits. There could be some insight to gain.

 

[JeannieC]

Wasn't there a suitcase of clean clothes, but no cosmetics or dirty clothes?

I believe there was. That's why the underwear is strange. Most people put their dirty clothes in a bag in their suitcase. One other possibility, a rather gross one. Perhaps it was her time of the month, she had one of those accidents, and she threw them away.

The maid would have cleaned the room before her husband returned and the trash would have been gone.

 

[JeannieC]

I agree. It was probably rented or owned by someone else. I don't think that LE found any car keys, because it would probably have been mentioned in one of the articles. If she rented a car, LE would have seen it on her credit card statements.

If there was a campsite set up, did they find a tent, sleeping bag and a fire pit? Did they find matches, a lighter or a flashlight? If not, I doubt she was really planning on sleeping there. Maybe, while on her hike, she ran into someone camping and it was their campsite.

Just some thoughts

One article stated that she was at a campsite. They might have just called it that because she appeared to have slept there. As far as I could tell there was no evidence that she had a fire or cooked. (They THINK she bought sandwiches)

 

[JeannieC]

Maybe, she bought some of those sandwiches for someone else too. The person, who was her killer, asked her to get the sandwiches. He did this because he didn't want to be seen by anyone, so he used an excuse to get her to go into the sandwich shop without him.

Just a thought.

A good thought too. Like you I find it hard to imagine her not being seen with another person but she had someone's car.........

 

[JeannieC]

I wish I knew a little bit more about her personality and habits. Maybe, she was too trusting. Perhaps, she was a flower child from the 60s at heart and didn't think twice about taking off to commune with nature. I'd like to hear more from her relatives and friends about her life. I don't trust her husband's version. He thinks she may have gone crazy, which could be true, but wouldn't there have been proof of it before the Philly trip?

As for the ex-husbands, she had been with her present husband for 10 years and her children were adults as far as I know, so it seems unlikely one of these husbands would have a motive to hurt her. However, it would be a good idea for LE to question them about her personality and habits. There could be some insight to gain.

From what I read her daughter and son lived with them and I think they were either young adults or in their teens. Jeff's child lived with them too and it stated that he was raising his child (I can't remember if he had a girl or a boy). I need to go back and look for that.

I don't think an Ex was involved either. I don't think she went crazy maybe she was angry with her husband or fed up! She was strong willed and independent. Any woman who hiked across Europe alone and when to Thailand alone wasn't real fearful. She seemed to be an outgoing person. Not timid or shy.

 

[JeannieC]

Does anyone know what the motive would have been for her husband to kill her? If he didn't want her anymore, why not just get a divorce? I doubt he would have had to pay her much alimony, if any at all -- they hadn't been married long, and she worked as a nurse. There doesn't seem to be any evidence of a girlfriend or other woman in the husband's life. Did she have a life insurance policy that he collected on, or anything like that?

I bet there was life insurance and a will. He was an attorney. That would be on his list of "gotta haves." That would also be an incentive to send out info and posters to every law enforcement agency in the US. He couldn't collect until they found a body or ten years (in some states longer. He did just about quit practicing law after she disappeared.

None of that makes him quilty but it could be motive.

 

[McSpy]

One article stated that she was at a campsite. They might have just called it that because she appeared to have slept there. As far as I could tell there was no evidence that she had a fire or cooked. (They THINK she bought sandwiches)

I wish I knew if she had a flashlight or matches. Imagine sleeping on a side of a mountain (pitch black darkness) without those things. To me, it seems unlikely that she was planning an overnight if she didn't have any tools to make it a bit more comfortable and safe. Also, I wonder if they found a water bottle close by. If they didn't find these things, it makes me believe she was with someone else or she had ran into someone bad while on a day hike.

I think LE should consider your Bear theory. It may not fit the crime scene, but one never knows until examining it.

I just had another thought. Where was her wallet and ID? Did she stow it in the car? If they towed the car, wouldn't the tow people have found it? Also, I would think if her car was towed from a parking lot near a trail head, wouldn't the local park service have been concerned someone didn't make it off that mountain and that they may be in danger. It's like finding a boat floating on a bay with no one on board.

 

[JeannieC]

LE didn't really release much information. One thing they didn't say was whether they found blood on her clothing. What else was in the backpack? Was makeup or other personal items in her backpack. She was a smart woman and a nurse. She would have taken some kind of ID in the backpack and a firstaid kit. What happened to her ID? Did she have a firstaid kit or other items?

Did they look into or have other suspects or was the entire investigation centered around her husband?

The FBI was brought in. Did they come up with any leads? Did they find out how she got to NC? Did the FBI do any DNA testing?

There are a lot of questions that are still unanswered and I bet LE knows some of the answers but just isn't talking.................lol

 

[kemo]

You have to give the NC investigators a little credit. I haven't seen a photo's of the "burial" scene but I would think they could tell the difference between a bear attack and a body that had been buried. It appears that the body was buried in a very shallow grave and animals had partially dug it up. I don't think this is anything other than a murder.

I could find only one "web" reference to the picnic ground and no mention of the trail they were on. From the description of the trail and the clothing she was wearing, it is most probable that she was on a pleasure hike and she was either killed by someone she encountered on the trail or someone she had been hiking with. The fact that no vehicle has been recovered that can be traced to her and the "suggestion" that she was "not alone" at the Christmas Store leads me to concluded it was more likely someone she was with.

The fact that the location was so obscure would tend to indicate that she was with someone who was familiar with the area. There are plenty of trails in the area that are found in guild books and National Forest Maps. The only reason they (or she) would be on that is if the "other person" were local or if they had spoken to a local and asked for recommendations. If I planned to kill someone on a remote trail, I would not want anyone to remember giving me directions to that trail.

If a car was rented in either the Philadelphia area or Ashland, and later either reported stolen or found abandoned, I think LE would have identified it. If it was rented with a credit card and later found abandoned but there weren’t sufficient funds to cover all expenses, an arrest warrant would be issued and the local police would have been knocking on the husband’s door. If there were enough funds within the credit limit to pay for all costs, the car rental company would just charge the credit card and not report it as stolen. I would think then that the Credit Card Co would trace, during the billing/collection efforts the card to the husband (perhaps through her employer). Once the death certificate was issued, collection would normally be pursued through probate. It seems nearly impossible that the husband would not eventually become aware of it.

I think she was riding in a car that belongs to her killer and he had ties to the Asheville area. How did they “hook up”? It could have been on the internet but in those days there were still “personal” ads in many newspapers, magazines etc. I wonder if she subscribed to any “hiking Mags”.

 

[McSpy]

I think she was riding in a car that belongs to her killer and he had ties to the Asheville area. How did they “hook up”? It could have been on the internet but in those days there were still “personal” ads in many newspapers, magazines etc. I wonder if she subscribed to any “hiking Mags”.

She could have used the Boston Phoenix classifieds. They once had a huge section of singles ads in their paper, but the people who advertised were usually local. The paper was everywhere in the Boston area. Newton is right outside of Boston.

I think LE should check to see if the husband's clients had any connection to the Ashville area. He was a criminal attorney.

 

[McSpy]

LE didn't really release much information. One thing they didn't say was whether they found blood on her clothing. What else was in the backpack? Was makeup or other personal items in her backpack. She was a smart woman and a nurse. She would have taken some kind of ID in the backpack and a firstaid kit. What happened to her ID? Did she have a firstaid kit or other items?

Did they look into or have other suspects or was the entire investigation centered around her husband?

The FBI was brought in. Did they come up with any leads? Did they find out how she got to NC? Did the FBI do any DNA testing?

There are a lot of questions that are still unanswered and I bet LE knows some of the answers but just isn't talking.................lol

They should be able to tell if she was shot or stabbed, because there would have been holes in her clothes. Her skull would have a hole if she was shot in the head. These details were not told to the media. If nothing was found there, I'm sure they looked for a certain bone in the neck, which would indicate strangulation if it was broken in a certain way. Although, animals did get to her. I'm pretty sure LE is holding some of this info back.

This all sounds so awful. I hope the family isn't reading this.

 

[McSpy]

I think I should read about this case again, because I can't get past my suspicion of her husband. Here is my list of why I think this:

1) He claims she forgot her ID and took a later flight.

2) The last time he saw her, she was in the shower. Yet, he described what she was wearing for the day she went missing. Did he say that just to confuse the police in their search?

3) When the hotel room was searched they found no dirty clothing or cosmetics belonging to his wife. Yet, they were planning to go to a cocktail party in the evening.

4) When she was found in NC, she had a blue backpack-- not a red one, which he claimed she
had with her in Philly.

5) He believes she didn't have full use of her faculties and that is the reason she ended up in NC for some reason. That wouldn't be something I would think, if my spouse disappeared. I would think they were abducted, especially if they didn't exhibit odd behavior prior to their disappearance.

6) His wife was known to hike alone, but I doubt she left on the hikes without letting people know of her plans. Besides, when did these hikes in exotic parts of the world occur? Was she in her 20s or 30s? One wonders if she would have done it in her 50s. You are more aware of the dangers when you are older.

7) She went missing on her first day in Philly. I find this interesting, because it makes me think she never arrived in Philly. If she was there for a few days, people, such as hotel staff and her husband's collegues, would have seen her there. Conveniently, she became missing on her first day.

8) He makes excuses for not taking a polygraph test.

All this adds up to me, but I could be wrong about some of this.

 

[McSpy]

Another thing: As far as I know, she didn't charge one thing on her credit card in Philly. Her husband claims she had cash with her. This seems very convenient as well. There was no paper trail of her being in Philly, because maybe she never arrived.

Just my opinion, which may change at any moment.

 

[JeannieC]

A desk clerk in Philly did say she saw Judith when she checked in to the hotel.

When she was found they did find slits in her shirt which they said could have been from a knife.

Her skull was found down the hill and it had been ripped away from the lower jaw. (or vice versa - sounded like the jaw bone was with the rest of the body).

When Jeff Smith visited the site where her body was found the detective made a statement that his office was still waiting results of forensic tests. He said how she died remained a mystery. That was 2 years after her body was found. He didn't use the word DNA. May 23, 1999

Jeff Smith said he would take a polygraph IF the FBI were brought in on the investigation. When he said it he didn't think they would be however, her body was found in a National Forest and she was the victim of a crime so they did get involved. In Philly they only assisted with interviews.

He still refused the polygraph.