PA PA - Judy Smith, 50, Philadelphia, 10 April 1997

  • #241
For some reason I had trouble getting on Sleuths but I finally got on here. I'm worried I would get into trouble for making a facebook page. Maybe it would be a good thing though because maybe someone will come forward. But I wouldn't want to do it without permission. But I do wish this case was out in the open like the McStay family and the Brittanee Drexel case.

Have you found any more information about creating a page for Judy? I wish I could set up a tip line or something but I don't think I can do that as I'm not part of LE.
 
  • #242
Maybe I should just go ahead and create a facebook page for Judy. I'd have to find several pictures of her to maybe jog peoples memory. Do you think I should go ahead with this, =\ ?
 
  • #243
I'm not on Facebook so I don't know what the rules are regarding setting up a page. Maybe we need to talk to someone at Bumcombe County Le and see if they will do it. The family wouldn't object if LE set it up.
 
  • #244
Maybe I should just go ahead and create a facebook page for Judy. I'd have to find several pictures of her to maybe jog peoples memory. Do you think I should go ahead with this, =\ ?

I think JeannieC has a good idea, which is to check with the detectives in the county where her body was found to see their reaction to your idea. This way you'll get some feed back. They are probably in touch with Judy's kids too. I like your idea a lot! I hope to see it on facebook!
 
  • #245
I wonder if the Vidocq Society would take this on if NC LE would make the request. They seem to give things a fresh look and maybe they will see things in a different light. I'm told they are the best.

I like this idea too. This case needs fresh eyes!
 
  • #246
I wish we knew if her children are still involved with the case.
 
  • #247
I'm with you on this. I think it would be a great idea as well. I haven't been on here in a while. Have you made any progress with this? I can read facebooks rules while the phone call is made to the LE that way we can both be doing something good for Judy. It's up to you.

Her children may be involved but they may be quiet about it. Maybe they're afraid of saying the wrong thing.
 
  • #248
Facebook FAQs.








How do I report a missing person or runaway?




You can submit reports of missing persons or runaways to Facebook by clicking here.

Remember that you should contact the authorities if you or someone you know may be in danger.

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Report a Missing Person or Runaway.






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According to this we can do it. It doesn't say anything about having to contact family members.
 
  • #249
I'm with you on this. I think it would be a great idea as well. I haven't been on here in a while. Have you made any progress with this? I can read facebooks rules while the phone call is made to the LE that way we can both be doing something good for Judy. It's up to you.

Her children may be involved but they may be quiet about it. Maybe they're afraid of saying the wrong thing.

It could be that the children just can't handle it. Maybe they have accepted that it will never be solved. Maybe the know something we don't. Who knows. Maybe they do check on it.

I'm willing to call LE. I need a list of questions to ask when I call since I have never done much more than a call and check on the status of case.

Will they set up a Facebook Page? Is the family involved? Do they have a POI? Have they considered the Vidocq Society?

Any other suggestions?
 
  • #250
Either the husband or the childrem might want to pursue this OR they may see this as just one more chance to expose dirty laundry without likelihood of results.

I suspect they would have some additional information that might answer some of our questions but obviously not sufficient to solve the crime. If they believe, as I do, that Judy hatched a plan to have an "adventure"; perhaps a romantic one, that her friends and family would never know about, they might not want to "air it out".

They shold be contacted first. If they don't want to proceed, perhaps the idea should be dropped.
 
  • #251
Facebook FAQs.









How do I report a missing person or runaway?




You can submit reports of missing persons or runaways to Facebook by clicking here.

Remember that you should contact the authorities if you or someone you know may be in danger.

Permalink






Report a Missing Person or Runaway.






Thank you for your report. Remember that you should contact the authorities if you or someone you know may be in danger. A Facebook administrator will review your report and take appropriate action.





Web address (URL) of the profile you would like to report:
Please copy and paste the web address (URL) of his or her profile





Full name of the person you are reporting:





Networks the profile belongs to:
For example, the San Francisco, CA, regional network.





Additional Relevant Information or Questions:









.





According to this we can do it. It doesn't say anything about having to contact family members.

But does that also apply to murder victims? That might be different.
 
  • #252
That was why I suggested LE setting up a Facebook Page. Some have done that. I'm not sure how that works that was why I was considering asking them if they would do it.
 
  • #253
That was why I suggested LE setting up a Facebook Page. Some have done that. I'm not sure how that works that was why I was considering asking them if they would do it.



Oh shoot, you know what you may have to call the LE for that. What the hell was I thinking?!

Look, this is sooooo not relevant to the situation but- I've had so much on mind and have had doubts about this site. I've posted a lot of my opinions on here and have been getting bashed left and right by people and I don't know why. I may leave the sleuth site because I really don't need to be abused all over again like I was for 15 years of my life. I thought people cared about people on this web site. I mean after all we are supposed to help solve crimes so why not be nice to each other? I just don't need any added extra stress. So I'm just letting you know in case I don't come back here. I can provide an e-mail address we can communicate through because I'll leave here but not Judys case. I can find out about creating a facebook page for Judy and her death. I'll check right now in fact.

I think those are very reasonable questions and I would see if they know more than what has been said and maybe ask why the children haven't said a whole lot. I don't know if that would be considered nosey or not but it's stuff I'd want to know and why hasn't the case been so out in the open. Plus, have there been any new leads and such. You could ask them if they would set up a page for Judy somewhere or on Facebook. I will find out about creating a murder case page on Facebook.
 
  • #254
Oh shoot, you know what you may have to call the LE for that. What the hell was I thinking?!

Look, this is sooooo not relevant to the situation but- I've had so much on mind and have had doubts about this site. I've posted a lot of my opinions on here and have been getting bashed left and right by people and I don't know why. I may leave the sleuth site because I really don't need to be abused all over again like I was for 15 years of my life. I thought people cared about people on this web site. I mean after all we are supposed to help solve crimes so why not be nice to each other? I just don't need any added extra stress. So I'm just letting you know in case I don't come back here. I can provide an e-mail address we can communicate through because I'll leave here but not Judys case. I can find out about creating a facebook page for Judy and her death. I'll check right now in fact.

I think those are very reasonable questions and I would see if they know more than what has been said and maybe ask why the children haven't said a whole lot. I don't know if that would be considered nosey or not but it's stuff I'd want to know and why hasn't the case been so out in the open. Plus, have there been any new leads and such. You could ask them if they would set up a page for Judy somewhere or on Facebook. I will find out about creating a murder case page on Facebook.

xLiqoricex, please don't leave the site. I have had a few people who more or less told me I was stupid or totally ignored my questions but I get over it.

People get so involved in the cases that their emotions take hold. You are the only one who has never bashed me for some of my really lamb thoughts. I know some of the sleuthers have been here a long time and really know their stuff and I don't so I just move on.

Like you, I really want someone to keep looking for the answer to Judith's death. I believe there is an answer somewhere and someone is going to find it. Her children deserve to know the truth.

I think bonding with Newby's helps and the moderators will always answer questions. I'm learning as I go.
 
  • #255
Oh shoot, you know what you may have to call the LE for that. What the hell was I thinking?!

Look, this is sooooo not relevant to the situation but- I've had so much on mind and have had doubts about this site. I've posted a lot of my opinions on here and have been getting bashed left and right by people and I don't know why. I may leave the sleuth site because I really don't need to be abused all over again like I was for 15 years of my life. I thought people cared about people on this web site. I mean after all we are supposed to help solve crimes so why not be nice to each other? I just don't need any added extra stress. So I'm just letting you know in case I don't come back here. I can provide an e-mail address we can communicate through because I'll leave here but not Judys case. I can find out about creating a facebook page for Judy and her death. I'll check right now in fact.

I think those are very reasonable questions and I would see if they know more than what has been said and maybe ask why the children haven't said a whole lot. I don't know if that would be considered nosey or not but it's stuff I'd want to know and why hasn't the case been so out in the open. Plus, have there been any new leads and such. You could ask them if they would set up a page for Judy somewhere or on Facebook. I will find out about creating a murder case page on Facebook.

Please, don't leave. You have very good ideas and questions. I've felt the same way as you on some of the other threads. There are old timers, who get impatient when you are new and ask questions they have answered many times over. Some get emotionally attached to their idea of what may have happened to the missing person. The tone of their posts sometimes seem mean spirited too. I just ignore them, unless they have made a good point. Sometimes, I look at it as a good exercise to learn how to handle difficult personalities. Believe it or not, sometimes they warm up to you!
 
  • #256
I'm thinking he hired someone in Massachusetts and had them fly down to Philly ahead of her. Maybe the husband told her that the hired killer was a trusted associate or a cousin and that this man would take her hiking, while the husband attended his conference. She could have been killed closer to Philly, but after she was killed was brought to the remote area in NC. Another possible scenario is that this phoney associate or relative made her climb that mountain then killed her there.
Thank you and so sorry for being late. I lost track of my post.

Do you suppose this guy had an old GF or new GF that did the killing? I can see a woman having no qualms going on a shopping trip with another woman but a man, that is just too hinky.

Then again I myself would never go on a shopping trip being escorted by someone I don't know or isn't a family member but there are some people that probably would.

I too would like more answers of the children's story.
 
  • #257
Thank you and so sorry for being late. I lost track of my post.

Do you suppose this guy had an old GF or new GF that did the killing? I can see a woman having no qualms going on a shopping trip with another woman but a man, that is just too hinky.

Then again I myself would never go on a shopping trip being escorted by someone I don't know or isn't a family member but there are some people that probably would.

I too would like more answers of the children's story.

You bring up some interesting points. Some are similar to my thoughts. Please don't everyone get upset if I wander down a different path again.

1. Judith missed the first plane from Mass to Philly. Did they ever check to see if someone else used her ticket?

2. Did someone take them to the airport? Could that person have flown to Philly using her ticket?

3. Could this other person have met her in Philly, rented a car and taken her to NC?

4. Could this other person have been a family member?

5. If Judith divorced SS would it make a big difference financially to the family?

These are my thoughts and just thoughts. I hope I haven't offended anyone.
 
  • #258
You bring up some interesting points. Some are similar to my thoughts. Please don't everyone get upset if I wander down a different path again.

1. Judith missed the first plane from Mass to Philly. Did they ever check to see if someone else used her ticket?

2. Did someone take them to the airport? Could that person have flown to Philly using her ticket?

3. Could this other person have met her in Philly, rented a car and taken her to NC?

4. Could this other person have been a family member?

5. If Judith divorced SS would it make a big difference financially to the family?

These are my thoughts and just thoughts. I hope I haven't offended anyone.





These are good key questions you've asked. But number 3 stuck out the strongest possibility.

Ok, I'm going to try to break this down and I'm going to try to look at it from different angles. I'm going to come clean as to what I think happened to Judy. Some of what I discuss is personal so I am sorry if this too, offends anyone. But I feel comfortable enough sharing because it could help Judys case.


If Judy and her husband supposedly discussed of Judys plans for the next day after arriving in Philly- the Independence Hall and Liberty Bell while Jeff was out on the conference function all day then maybe Judy was taken while she was sight seeing. Or Judy could have planned her disappearance and saw being away from her husband since he was at the conference as an opportunity to get away without him questioning her. Maybe this was to meet up with another person she met while nursing or someone else she thought she knew in NC. Maybe it was just a total stranger. Or it could have been someone from Philly who rented a car who took her to NC.

According to Jeffs statements she sounded a bit clueless but not in a bad way... she just sounded carefree from anything bad happening. She didn't sound paniced or like anything was wrong from the time she supposedly left her license to the time she supposedly went sight seeing. Having this information, IMO sounds like this gives a higher chance that she was taken not willingly. But how much of what Jeff stated is true and what isn't? Could he be telling the 100% truth or not.

What happened between the time Judy supposedly showered and then when Jeffery left for his conference? I am curious to know her actions from the shower to wherever. What was going through her mind. Judy was supposedly seen and asked where she could catch the Phlash, SEPTA's Center City van service. The Phlash would have stopped at the Liberty Bell and the Visitor's Center at 16th street and JFK Boulevard which she had mentioned the night before. Which was accurate to what she talked about. This leads me to believe that nothing happened to Judy yet. Then she was seen using the restroom. But from there on everything seems to be a possibility; such as, Chinatown and no positive identification of Judy. Maybe something happened to Judy after she used the ladies restroom.

If she didn't vanish by the ladies restroom and if the supposed disoriented signs were true then this could make sense and it may have truly been Judy.
When I read about the whole mid life crisis theory- I wanted to laugh. I do not belive Judy had a mid-life crisis at all. Judys attitude doesn't portray signs of someone having a mid life crisis. However, according to others, she seemed to have displayed signs of disorientation. I think this could be a strong possibility. IMO and IME- In my experience, my father suffers demetia. From what I gather about my father, when he is having a bad demetia episode he becomes very disoriented- my dad will forget about so many things INCLUDING appointments with doctors. He forgets the time and date. He forgets who his children are and their names. At times, he doesn't know where he is located and he WILL think he is lost. For example, he went to Florida with my step mother and my father disappeared- just wandered off and the police had to go find him. When the police found my dad he kept asking his wife , "who are you." "I don't know you people and why am I here?" In addition, my father takes a lot of medication- a little more medication than he probably should and this often makes him disoriented as well.

So, going back to Judy forgetting about her license and ID may be a sign of disorientation from something whether signs of demetia or drugs. I know taking too much drugs causes this. And if Jeff had access to drugs then maybe he was drugging Judy slowly. Maybe it was Jeffs intentions for Judy to just get lost like this. Maybe Judy was found wandering around leaving from place to place because she thought she was lost from being disoriented and was just trying to find her way back. If Judy tried to get some girl to leave with her thinking it was her daughter could have been confused and thinking about other time periods in Judys life where Judy was remembering certain events through her disorientation. My father will do this too. But how come none of it was caught on a security camera? Could it be false information? And if Judy had amnesia then I think her symptoms would have been a lot worse than described.

I think from the ladies restroom and on Judy either became really disoriented or she was taken by force or on her own freewill she left. But all of these lead to the question how did Judy die and what caused her death. I don't think demetia like this could kill someone but it could cause a person to trust someone else and go with another person whether the person knows the other person or not. Maybe Judy's disorientation made Judy vulnerable to someone who came in contact with her and she was killed by someone along her disorientation path. Her husband did claim that Judy would not go with someone voluntarily and she would scream if forced.

Maybe Jeff drugged her and had her become disoriented making it easier for someone to kill Judy and her body was killed elsewhere but dumped in NC. But this I find EXTREMELY hard to believe. I mean if Jeff really wanted this it would have had to happen out of good luck on Jeffs part.


Maybe Judy was taken by Penn's Landing by someone.



For some reason, I just don't feel like it was a family member who hurt aside from her husband. I do find it odd that they both had separate phone lines and she had her own accounts and credit cards. On the other hand, maybe they just wanted to take full responsibility of their own financial issues. When there's balance like this and everything is equal then there's less of a chance for anyone to accuse someone of something bad going on. And there is less fighting that goes on within a relationship- IMO. And because Judy was able to financially support herself, it would give a higher chance of them to try to obtain money from her..but how would anyone do that? Life insurance policy? I know nothing about that. A friend who mentioned that Judy and her husband were having marriage issues- I just don't think this would cause Judy to disappear as she did. There are people who have validated that she had normal behavior up until a certain point where she then changed and appeared disoriented. People who also validated her putting her plans into action. So if she was in a good mood up until a certain point I doubt she was angry at her husband. And did the husband or Judy throw away her other plane ticket? Where did that go? That I really don't know.



From what I have gathered, I believe Judys disorientation and wanting to sight see had a lot to do with her disappearance and I believe someone took advantage of her being confused and harmed her. If someone's going to be confused like that, it will give a perp an easier time approaching a victim and committing a crime. I can just picture Judy asking someone for help later on or saying weird stuff that didn't make sense and then some killer telling her oh yeah I can help you when the person was just lying. But where was Judy killed? I don't know. But I'm thinking she was killed in NC around where her body was found or she was killed somewhere very close to NC and her body dumped. And those sandwiches she supposedly had could have been from anytime from her disappearance to the time she was murdered. Maybe it was someone who rented a car and took her to NC or killed her somewhere along the way- IMO. Everything is just my opinion.


I wish I knew if this was all correct.
 
  • #259
Good theory. I'll have to think this over a while. They know when and where she purchased the sandwiches. It was in Asheville near the area where her body was found.

One thing that leads me question her hiking to that particular place is the autopsy report. It stated that she had "Acute Arthritis" in her knees. The area where she was found was on a very steep hill. That would have been hard for her to climb. Would she have done that willingly with her knees being so bad?

If it was acute arthritis her knees would have gotten stiff too. Riding that far would have caused them to stiffen and hurt. She would have needed pain medication for her knees. jmo
 
  • #260
JeannieC,

Thank you for explaining where the sandwiches came from. Do you know if LE has located the people she puchased the sandwiches from? Have they told them any information? Was she with anyone while she purchased the sandwiches? Do they know what the store was called? I can't any information about details. I'm starving for details. GRRR. Her being murdered must have happened in NC then. Maybe it was a murderer from that area. It is disturbing how her jaw had been severed some how so it was found like that. I wonder how that happened. An animal or a person.

She could have been murdered and then possibly carried up the hill by someone. And some claimed she was too big to be carried which is OK but I just don't think it would have been hard to carry her. Especially her being as short as she was. It's easy to put someone on their back and carry them like they're carrying buckets of water hanging from a bar.

And if she went up the hill herself maybe she was taking pain medication for it. These are all good points.
 

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