PA PA - Judy Smith, 50, Philadelphia, 10 April 1997

[JeannieC]

http://archives.citypaper.net/articles/100997/cb.buncombe.shtml

Article Titled: The Boys From Buncombe (That's a County in NC)

Diane Crowell, owner of Crowell's Deli, tells me that a woman who looked like Smith stopped by in April, bought $30 worth of sandwiches and a toy truck.

She was driving a gray sedan.

"That's her," Crowell tells me as I show her the picture on the cover of our July 11 issue. "I know she came in here.

Since reading again I noticed something I had missed the first time. Lt Constance seems to give out a lot of information on what Le intends to do.

One example:

Constance says he wants to subpoena Judith Smith's financial records, to see if she has any connections to Buncombe County. He wants to talk to Judith's husband, Jeffrey Smith, personally, to see up close how Smith, considered a suspect by Philadelphia Police, handles himself under scrutiny.

Below this article are several other articles regarding Judith Smith and a picture of her son and husband.


Hope this helps.

 

[McSpy]

http://archives.citypaper.net/articles/100997/cb.buncombe.shtml

Article Titled: The Boys From Buncombe (That's a County in NC)



Since reading again I noticed something I had missed the first time. Lt Constance seems to give out a lot of information on what Le intends to do.

One example:

Below this article are several other articles regarding Judith Smith and a picture of her son and husband.


Hope this helps.

In one of these articles, it was stated that she bought $30. worth of sandwiches and a toy truck. If that was her, who bought the toy truck, did she have any children in her life that would be the likely recipient of that gift? I don't think she had grandchildren yet. I'm not sure though. Maybe this was a case of mistaken identity or there was a child with her and the perp. Just a thought

 

[McSpy]

Thank you and so sorry for being late. I lost track of my post.

Do you suppose this guy had an old GF or new GF that did the killing? I can see a woman having no qualms going on a shopping trip with another woman but a man, that is just too hinky.

Then again I myself would never go on a shopping trip being escorted by someone I don't know or isn't a family member but there are some people that probably would.

I too would like more answers of the children's story.

I was thinking maybe she went on a hiking trip, while her husband was at the convention. I doubt Judy's husband had another GF. He was extremely overweight. Her husband did mention that she visited him at a weight-loss facility in North Carolina at one time. It makes me wonder if she met someone there while on her visit.

 

[JeannieC]

In one of these articles, it was stated that she bought $30. worth of sandwiches and a toy truck. If that was her, who bought the toy truck, did she have any children in her life that would be the likely recipient of that gift? I don't think she had grandchildren yet. I'm not sure though. Maybe this was a case of mistaken identity or there was a child with her and the perp. Just a thought

It was in the article I posted above. That is so funny, I came back in because I forgot to mention the truck. I was wondering the same thing. Who did she buy the truck for. Her children were teens and I think SS's daughter was a teen too. No grandchildren yet.

From all the articles I have found no one saw her with another person. I wonder if the person went ahead to get the "camp" set up and she went back to the town for the food.

Probably not likely since the camp area was not in a place where most would camp. It was in a very steep out of the way area.

There were 2 paths that lead to that area. Is it possible that she went to NC with another woman and a child and that she was murdered and the woman and child were abducted?

I'm sure this is a crazy thougt but the truck bothers me too! AND there is no mention that the truck was found where she camped.

 

[JeannieC]

I was thinking maybe she went on a hiking trip, while her husband was at the convention. I doubt Judy's husband had another GF. He was extremely overweight. Her husband did mention that she visited him at a weight-loss facility in North Carolina at one time. It makes me wonder if she met someone there while on her visit.

I haven't been able to find the article but she had two friends in NC who were nurses. LE said they said they had not seen her.

She might have met someone when SS was in the weight-loss facility. I don't know where that was located though.

 

[yosande]

I admit I haven't gone through the whole thread, however,
the backpack found with the deceased woman was blue,
and the backpack described by the witness, I think at the sandwich shop was red, yes?

Also, thirty dollars worth of sandwiches would feed how many people, three?
Did either of the nurses have a child, and with them?

Did the nurses know her or her husband, since he was an attorney for a drug company?

Just some random thoughts being thrown in the hat....

ETA; it is too much that the two nurses knew her, and she, if it was her, was found so close to where they were staying. This information must not be dismissed.

Is it possible that while with the nurses, there was an accident using illegal drugs or some other reason that the nurses would not want to admit that she was there?

Did either of the nurses own or rent a car like the one she was seen in?

ETAA; a far fetched thought about the truck; has it been looked into whether there was a baby selling ring was going on? What of the other woman who was found up there in 07? Is it possible that she had been pregnant or had just had a baby? I know it's way out there, but stranger things have happened.

 

[yosande]

This is from an interview with her husband, Jeff Smith after she disappeared. Printed in the Philadelphia CityPaper

July 17, 1997

"She's an inordinately self-reliant person," who traveled to Thailand alone about five years ago to visit the grateful family of a former patient, he says. She also once took her kids to Europe for several weeks. "

One other interesting thing I noticed in the article:


"Judy is an experienced traveler, Jeff says, who neither needed nor tolerated protection."She was very bright — is very bright." He pauses and seems to pale, visibly shaken by his own words. He takes a deep breath before continuing. "On a very rare occasion I lapse into the past tense. It bothers me that I do that. She is very bright, and she was able to expose me to things I hadn't done before, and I was able to do the same for her. I don't know... we grew to love each other, I guess."






http://archives.citypaper.net/articles/071797/article010.shtml

Ok, that was a little creepy, sounds really guilty. moo

 

[JeannieC]

I admit I haven't gone through the whole thread, however,
the backpack found with the deceased woman was blue,
and the backpack described by the witness, I think at the sandwich shop was red, yes?

Also, thirty dollars worth of sandwiches would feed how many people, three?
Did either of the nurses have a child, and with them?

Did the nurses know her or her husband, since he was an attorney for a drug company?

Just some random thoughts being thrown in the hat....

ETA; it is too much that the two nurses knew her, and she, if it was her, was found so close to where they were staying. This information must not be dismissed.

Is it possible that while with the nurses, there was an accident using illegal drugs or some other reason that the nurses would not want to admit that she was there?

Did either of the nurses own or rent a car like the one she was seen in?

ETAA; a far fetched thought about the truck; has it been looked into whether there was a baby selling ring was going on? What of the other woman who was found up there in 07? Is it possible that she had been pregnant or had just had a baby? I know it's way out there, but stranger things have happened.

Judith always carried an old beat up RED backpack according to her family. The one found at the campsite was a new blue backpack.

The nurses were never with her and she had not been in touch with either of them according to LE.

She was seen driving a dark colored sedan in Asheville. No one knows where the car came from or who it belonged to. She was never seen with anyone.

I'm not familar with the woman found in 07. Tell me about her, please.

Judith disappeared around April 13, 1997. It is possible that she bought the toy truck to take to one of her sister's grandchildren. It is a mystery.

There was no evidence that Judith ever did drugs. She worked as a nurse in home health care and seemed to be very well liked.

Were you asking if Judith was pregnant or just had a baby or the girl in 2007? Judith was close to 50 and had two teenage children. A boy and a girl. Her husband had a teenage girl who also lived with them. He was an attorney.

This is a real mystery. How did she get from Philly to NC? Who murdered her? Last but not least, who was with her or did she go alone up on the mountain? I doubt that she did.

 

[McSpy]

For some reason, the police in Philly have always looked at Judy's husband as a suspect. His refusal to take the polygraph test may have also fed into that idea. I wonder if he came across as a liar? LE didn't find cosmetics or dirty clothes in the Philly hotel room. I can see why LE thinks he did it, because they can't clear him.

 

[McSpy]

I probably asked this question before. Did LE find flowers in the Philly hotel room? Judy's husband claimed she gave him flowers the night before, along with an apology for having to take a later flight, because of forgetting her ID. I doubt anyone can answer this here, but I hope the NC investigators looked into it.

 

[kemo]

I went on a site for the show "Haunting Evidence". While I feel the hocus pocus stuff is bunk, the crew went to the actual body site and I learned that it was 1/4 miles from the picnic area, the trail was quite steep up hill and rocky and the "hole" that Judy was put in was not dug with a tool. It was apparently a cavity left from a tree that had become uprooted and the body was only covered with rocks and branches. There is no question that someone tried to conceal the body but it wasn't particularly well done. The hole was about 15 yards off the trail where it wouldn't have been seen by someone hiking up the trail. The trail its self however, is quite popular. Had the perp killed her somewhere else and was only looking for a dump site, he (or she) would have dragged her a much shorter distance downhill to a spot where no one would be likely to go.

It seems to me that an application of Occam’s razor leads to the obvious conclusion that Judy believed she was on an ordinary hike and was killed by her hiking companion who robbed her of her cash and jewelry. Had the murderer not arrived at the picnic area with her, there would have been two cars as the site is very remote and there is no public transportation and there is no record of an abandoned car being found there. They came together in one car and the prep left in the same car.

 

[McSpy]

I went on a site for the show "Haunting Evidence". While I feel the hocus pocus stuff is bunk, the crew went to the actual body site and I learned that it was 1/4 miles from the picnic area, the trail was quite steep up hill and rocky and the "hole" that Judy was put in was not dug with a tool. It was apparently a cavity left from a tree that had become uprooted and the body was only covered with rocks and branches. There is no question that someone tried to conceal the body but it wasn't particularly well done. The hole was about 15 yards off the trail where it wouldn't have been seen by someone hiking up the trail. The trail its self however, is quite popular. Had the perp killed her somewhere else and was only looking for a dump site, he (or she) would have dragged her a much shorter distance downhill to a spot where no one would be likely to go.

It seems to me that an application of Occam’s
razor leads to the obvious conclusion that Judy believed she was on an ordinary hike and was killed by her hiking companion who robbed her of her cash and jewelry. Had the murderer not arrived at the picnic area with her, there would have been two cars as the site is very remote and there is no public transportation and there is no record of an abandoned car being found there. They came together in one car and the prep left in the same car.

I believe it is a simple explanation for her murder too, but I don't believe she was robbed (money was found in her shirt pocket) and if I remember correctly, LE eventually found her jewelry. Although, I don't think LE found her wallet. It is hard to know if the perp took her wallet to just get rid of her identification or they thought there was money in it. She could have left it in a vehicle, which most likely the perp drove off in.

 

[JeannieC]

For some reason, the police in Philly have always looked at Judy's husband as a suspect. His refusal to take the polygraph test may have also fed into that idea. I wonder if he came across as a liar? LE didn't find cosmetics or dirty clothes in the Philly hotel room. I can see why LE thinks he did it, because they can't clear him.

Judith's husband refused the LD because he was on medication that would give it an incorrect reading.

I understand it they ruled him out as a POI.

They didn't find any indication that a female had been in the room at the hotel in Philly. SS said she was taking a shower when he left for his meeting and gone when he returned.

If she had been there she put the same clothes back on that she had worn the day before ...including her underwear. NO dirty clothes were found in her luggage.

She didn't wear much makeup and none was found in the room. He said she carried that in her red backpack. Her son agreed.

 

[JeannieC]

I probably asked this question before. Did LE find flowers in the Philly hotel room? Judy's husband claimed she gave him flowers the night before, along with an apology for having to take a later flight, because of forgetting her ID. I doubt anyone can answer this here, but I hope the NC investigators looked into it.

Yes they did and a desk clerk saw a woman she thought was Judith Smith carrying flowers when she entered the hotel.

 

[JeannieC]

I went on a site for the show "Haunting Evidence". While I feel the hocus pocus stuff is bunk, the crew went to the actual body site and I learned that it was 1/4 miles from the picnic area, the trail was quite steep up hill and rocky and the "hole" that Judy was put in was not dug with a tool. It was apparently a cavity left from a tree that had become uprooted and the body was only covered with rocks and branches. There is no question that someone tried to conceal the body but it wasn't particularly well done. The hole was about 15 yards off the trail where it wouldn't have been seen by someone hiking up the trail. The trail its self however, is quite popular. Had the perp killed her somewhere else and was only looking for a dump site, he (or she) would have dragged her a much shorter distance downhill to a spot where no one would be likely to go.

It seems to me that an application of Occam’s razor leads to the obvious conclusion that Judy believed she was on an ordinary hike and was killed by her hiking companion who robbed her of her cash and jewelry. Had the murderer not arrived at the picnic area with her, there would have been two cars as the site is very remote and there is no public transportation and there is no record of an abandoned car being found there. They came together in one car and the prep left in the same car.

None of her possessions were gone. Her wedding rings, money, etc was still on her or in her backpack.

When she was seen in town she was alone and she was alone in the dark colored sedan too. She did ask at one place if she could sleep in her car in their parking lot and they told her no. Strange if she was there with someone.

Whoever was with her kept completely out of site but the number of sandwiches she purchased seems like too many for one person. imo

 

[kemo]

http://archives.citypaper.net/articles/073098/om1.shtml?print=1

The above article clears up a few points.
The wedding ring was found the following spring when they did a second search of the area where the body was found. A caller from the Ashville area reported seeing her with "someone else". Constance would not say what sex this individual was but I'm guessing male. We do not know the circumstances of this sighting. I suspect that LE is looking for this gut as the probable perp.

The Ashville sightings are very important but I don't believe can be absolutely certain of them. The "Christmas Store" lady gave such detailed information (she was from Boston, her husband was attending a convention in Philly, she had two adult kids ) that it was either definitely her or the woman is fabricating, embellishing, fantasizing etc based on information she gleamed from the paper. I get them impression Constance is inclined to believe her.

One thing I noticed is a similarity of the description of the sighting in New Jersey and Christmas store lady: in both cases, the woman gave a lot of personal information. Some people are like that, they meet a stranger at some chance encounter and they proceed to start giving all kinds of details of their life. I find these types of people a little "nutty" but I do tend to remember them. If Judy was like that, it might explain why people remembered her.

According to the husband, she had only $200 with her when she disappeared and a credit card that was never used. Either there was a lot more money he did know about or a credit card he was unaware of. The fact that there was around $80 in two different articles of clothing at the crime scene is "odd". Did she routinely "hide" cash in various places? Did she not trust her "companion" so she stashed he money where she hoped he wouldn't find it? The wallet is definitely not at the crime scene. It's a good bet that it was taken.

 

[JeannieC]

http://archives.citypaper.net/articles/073098/om1.shtml?print=1

The above article clears up a few points.
The wedding ring was found the following spring when they did a second search of the area where the body was found. A caller from the Ashville area reported seeing her with "someone else". Constance would not say what sex this individual was but I'm guessing male. We do not know the circumstances of this sighting. I suspect that LE is looking for this gut as the probable perp.

The Ashville sightings are very important but I don't believe can be absolutely certain of them. The "Christmas Store" lady gave such detailed information (she was from Boston, her husband was attending a convention in Philly, she had two adult kids ) that it was either definitely her or the woman is fabricating, embellishing, fantasizing etc based on information she gleamed from the paper. I get them impression Constance is inclined to believe her.

One thing I noticed is a similarity of the description of the sighting in New Jersey and Christmas store lady: in both cases, the woman gave a lot of personal information. Some people are like that, they meet a stranger at some chance encounter and they proceed to start giving all kinds of details of their life. I find these types of people a little "nutty" but I do tend to remember them. If Judy was like that, it might explain why people remembered her.

According to the husband, she had only $200 with her when she disappeared and a credit card that was never used. Either there was a lot more money he did know about or a credit card he was unaware of. The fact that there was around $80 in two different articles of clothing at the crime scene is "odd". Did she routinely "hide" cash in various places? Did she not trust her "companion" so she stashed he money where she hoped he wouldn't find it? The wallet is definitely not at the crime scene. It's a good bet that it was taken.

That area NC is a tourist area and so is the area in Philly where she visited...if she did. Judith also had a Mass Accent and the clerks probably asked her where she was from and struck up a conversation with her.

I've had clerks ask me when I travel.

The only thing I can figure about the money is that she got change from the sandwiches and might have just slipped the money in her shirt pocket. Maybe she had put a few dollar in her bag too. I don't always keep all my money in my wallet in case it gets stolen. Not even in my purse for the same reason.

 

[McSpy]

That area NC is a tourist area and so is the area in Philly where she visited...if she did. Judith also had a Mass Accent and the clerks probably asked her where she was from and struck up a conversation with her.

I've had clerks ask me when I travel.

The only thing I can figure about the money is that she got change from the sandwiches and might have just slipped the money in her shirt pocket. Maybe she had put a few dollar in her bag too. I don't always keep all my money in my wallet in case it gets stolen. Not even in my purse for the same reason.

Good point about the accent. People do mention it for small talk.

I wonder if the Philly LE checked her phone records? Perhaps, she set up a meeting with someone in Philly or NC. I sometimes think she was not staying in the Asheville area, that maybe it was only a day trip. She could have been staying in the Raleigh area or somewhere else.

 

[McSpy]

I have to say it is weird that she would show up with flowers for her husband in Philly, but end up with possibly someone else in NC. Maybe she was having an affair?

I wonder if LE checked her credit card purchases made in Massachusetts prior to her trip?

 

[JeannieC]

Good point about the accent. People do mention it for small talk.

I wonder if the Philly LE checked her phone records? Perhaps, she set up a meeting with someone in Philly or NC. I sometimes think she was not staying in the Asheville area, that maybe it was only a day trip. She could have been staying in the Raleigh area or somewhere else.

Yes they did check phone records. She had her own line and SS had his own.

It didn't look like she was only there for a day trip. That could be but LE didn't find any indication that she had checked in to a hotel and she had asked at one store if she could sleep in her car in their parking lot.

They told her no...........that's why I think she was alone.