PA PA - Judy Smith, 50, Philadelphia, 10 April 1997

[JeannieC]

I have to say it is weird that she would show up with flowers for her husband in Philly, but end up with possibly someone else in NC. Maybe she was having an affair?

I wonder if LE checked her credit card purchases made in Massachusetts prior to her trip?

That was mentioned in an article. Her's and his. Bank records, rental cars, hotels, planes, trains, buses, you name it. She either used a different name or someone else rented a car or the boogey man took her the NC or a .:ufo:

 

[McSpy]

Yes they did check phone records. She had her own line and SS had his own.

It didn't look like she was only there for a day trip. That could be but LE didn't find any indication that she had checked in to a hotel and she had asked at one store if she could sleep in her car in their parking lot.

They told her no...........that's why I think she was alone.

Do you suppose that it could have been mistaken identity? In other words, maybe some of these sitings were not her? Did her accent and the fact that she was middle age (unusual to request sleeping in a parking lot at that age) make these people remember her?

If it was her that made a request to sleep in a parking lot, that vehicle is quite the mystery. She had to have rented it or borrowed it somehow. You can't rent it without a credit card, so where did she get it from? Did her husband rent a vehicle? Did they check all his records? Why would a friend rent it for her, if she was gainfully employed and had her own credit cards? I'm just asking these questions to think this through. As you know, there is a huge piece missing. If someone let her borrow it, why didn't she sleep over at their place or find a hotel room? Maybe she was developing Alzheimers, but she seemed to recall she had 2 children and that she was from the Boston area when she conversed with store personnel in the area.

 

[JeannieC]

Do you suppose that it could have been mistaken identity? In other words, maybe some of these sitings were not her? Did her accent and the fact that she was middle age (unusual to request sleeping in a parking lot at that age) make these people remember her?

If it was her that made a request to sleep in a parking lot, that vehicle is quite the mystery. She had to have rented it or borrowed it somehow. You can't rent it without a credit card, so where did she get it from? Did her husband rent a vehicle? Did they check all his records? Why would a friend rent it for her, if she was gainfully employed and had her own credit cards? I'm just asking these questions to think this through. As you know, there is a huge piece missing. If someone let her borrow it, why didn't she sleep over at their place or find a hotel room? Maybe she was developing Alzheimers, but she seemed to recall she had 2 children and that she was from the Boston area when she conversed with store personnel in the area.

They are fairly certain the sightings in NC were her but not all of them. They did find 2 sightings that were another woman.

Judy's mind seemed to be clear at least prior to the trip.

You are right there is a hugh gap from the time she left PA until she was found in NC. I believe someone in her family knows something and just isn't talking.

 

[McSpy]

They are fairly certain the sightings in NC were her but not all of them. They did find 2 sightings that were another woman.

Judy's mind seemed to be clear at least prior to the trip.

You are right there is a hugh gap from the time she left PA until she was found in NC. I believe someone in her family knows something and just isn't talking.

I agree someone in her family may know. Let's say she had a fight with her husband and decided to rent a car and take off. Why wouldn't there be a credit card charge on the car? Why would she use another identity? For what reason would that be necessary? Again, these are just questions to sort this out for myself. Could she have left a day late, so her lover would be able to drive down to NC from MA to meet her? And why wouldn't she be concerned that she wouldn't make it back in time to meet her husband for the cocktail party in Philly, especially after apologizing to him with flowers the night before? These questions always lead me back to the husband. Nothing else seems to make sense.

 

[McSpy]

One of the odd things about this case is that it supposedly started with her forgetting her ID and ended with murder and her wallet plus ID missing.

 

[McSpy]

Yes they did check phone records. She had her own line and SS had his own.

It didn't look like she was only there for a day trip. That could be but LE didn't find any indication that she had checked in to a hotel and she had asked at one store if she could sleep in her car in their parking lot.

They told her no...........that's why I think she was alone.

Did they check his phone records, including calls from the hotel? Maybe they needed a warrant for that info?

 

[McSpy]

I wonder if they found any DNA in the inside pockets or the items in the backpack? The outside of the pack may have been soaked too many times from rain, but the inside pockets may hold a clue.

After reading that the authorities said they found slice marks on her shirt and thought maybe she was stabbed, I'm thinking that maybe she was attacked by a bear. Someone had mentioned that possibility a while back. Supposedly, someone else said that the hole was near a tree and may have been natural, rather than dug by a person. Yet, again, why was she there in the first place? More questions than answers!

 

[McSpy]

According to this article, she wasn't getting along with her husband. The authorities found expensive sunglasses at the scene too, and they don't think they belonged to her. Who wears expensive sunglasses? Perhaps, someone from the wealthy suburb outside of Boston, MA?

http://www.unsolved.com/ajaxfiles/une_judy_smith.htm

 

[JeannieC]

I agree someone in her family may know. Let's say she had a fight with her husband and decided to rent a car and take off. Why wouldn't there be a credit card charge on the car? Why would she use another identity? For what reason would that be necessary? Again, these are just questions to sort this out for myself. Could she have left a day late, so her lover would be able to drive down to NC from MA to meet her? And why wouldn't she be concerned that she wouldn't make it back in time to meet her husband for the cocktail party in Philly, especially after apologizing to him with flowers the night before? These questions always lead me back to the husband. Nothing else seems to make sense.

Le checked credit cards and rental cars. The only way she could rent a car would be if she used a fake ID and CC which I don't think she did.
She was seen in the hotel (or so they say) so she made it to Philly. She used the plane ticket to Philly.

LE ruled him out as a suspect. I just don't know.

 

[JeannieC]

Did they check his phone records, including calls from the hotel? Maybe they needed a warrant for that info?

According to LE they did.

 

[JeannieC]

I wonder if they found any DNA in the inside pockets or the items in the backpack? The outside of the pack may have been soaked too many times from rain, but the inside pockets may hold a clue.

After reading that the authorities said they found slice marks on her shirt and thought maybe she was stabbed, I'm thinking that maybe she was attacked by a bear. Someone had mentioned that possibility a while back. Supposedly, someone else said that the hole was near a tree and may have been natural, rather than dug by a person. Yet, again, why was she there in the first place? More questions than answers!

They didn't have DNA testing at that time. I wonder if they have done it since then. Good question!

 

[JeannieC]

According to this article, she wasn't getting along with her husband. The authorities found expensive sunglasses at the scene too, and they don't think they belonged to her. Who wears expensive sunglasses? Perhaps, someone from the wealthy suburb outside of Boston, MA?

http://www.unsolved.com/ajaxfiles/une_judy_smith.htm

LE didn't think the sunglasses belonged to Judith. They didn't think the blue backpack was hers either. Why would the killer take hers and leave the other red one? Why not take both if he/she was wanting her wallet, credit card, license, etc.

 

[McSpy]

LE didn't think the sunglasses belonged to Judith. They didn't think the blue backpack was hers either. Why would the killer take hers and leave the other red one? Why not take both if he/she was wanting her wallet, credit card, license, etc.

Good points! I also ruled out the bear attack, because I doubt he took her wallet! Unless, some hiker found it near a trail and threw out the cards and kept the money. In other words, it became scattered like her remains and ended up in an area where someone could have picked it up.

Were the clothes in the backpack hers? Supposedly, there were winter clothes found in the blue backpack? If not, they should do a DNA test on them too.

 

[JeannieC]

Good points! I also ruled out the bear attack, because I doubt he took her wallet! Unless, some hiker found it near a trail and threw out the cards and kept the money. In other words, it became scattered like her remains and ended up in an area where someone could have picked it up.

Were the clothes in the backpack hers? Supposedly, there were winter clothes found in the blue backpack? If not, they should do a DNA test on them too.

I'll have to go back and check on the clothes. I believe they were but I honestly don't know.

According to her husband she only had $200 with her. She spent $30 on sandwiches and a toy truck. That and anything else she might have spent didn't leave her with much money if that was correct. They found money in her shirt pocket and money in a pocket of a jacket or a pair of pants.

 

[JeannieC]

I just found a NEW article that I don't believe has been posted............
We might know how she got to NC

An employee at the Greyhound Bus Terminal at 10th and Filbert Streets reported seeing her Thursday afternoon, but Smith said it was likely she was just walking past the station from Chinatown, because she often sought out Asian food when the couple traveled. Smith and his wife's children circulated her picture in many of the city's Chinese restaurants Friday, but no one recognized her, Smith said.

http://articles.philly.com/1997-04-13/news/25530226_1_cocktail-party-children-tourist

:great: :woohoo:

 

[JeannieC]

Robert Stack did a show about Judy Smith

Her daughter was on the show. Go to this link and click on Judy Smith to ready the script.

A couple of new facts. Not much except her Daughter was on the show too.

 

[JeannieC]

I believe she took a Greyhound and went to NC in spite of what Hubby said. That's my opinion. I also believe she had more money than he thought she had. Maybe he gave her $200 to spend in Philly but she had more of her own. jmho..........

She might have used her old license to get the car....that might be the license she went back to get.

She rented a car in NC and pre-scheduled the auto rental co to pick up the car. They picked it up as scheduled and never noticed she was missing. Just thought she kept the keys.

LE looked for her under her married name (Smith) not her previous name and they missed it.

She went for a hike, was planning to spend the day in the mountains and she was murdered. She might have met up with a rapist/killer in the mountains or saw something she shouldn't have seen and was murdered because of it.

Mountain people don't want strangers getting into their business. They still have moonshine, pot growing, illegal hunting, and people hiding from the law. She might have run into the wrong person or seen something she shouldn't have seen.

 

[xLiqoricex]

I went on a site for the show "Haunting Evidence". While I feel the hocus pocus stuff is bunk, the crew went to the actual body site and I learned that it was 1/4 miles from the picnic area, the trail was quite steep up hill and rocky and the "hole" that Judy was put in was not dug with a tool. It was apparently a cavity left from a tree that had become uprooted and the body was only covered with rocks and branches. There is no question that someone tried to conceal the body but it wasn't particularly well done. The hole was about 15 yards off the trail where it wouldn't have been seen by someone hiking up the trail. The trail its self however, is quite popular. Had the perp killed her somewhere else and was only looking for a dump site, he (or she) would have dragged her a much shorter distance downhill to a spot where no one would be likely to go.

It seems to me that an application of Occam’s razor leads to the obvious conclusion that Judy believed she was on an ordinary hike and was killed by her hiking companion who robbed her of her cash and jewelry. Had the murderer not arrived at the picnic area with her, there would have been two cars as the site is very remote and there is no public transportation and there is no record of an abandoned car being found there. They came together in one car and the prep left in the same car.

This sounds like it makes perfect sense. Thanks for explaining about the hole that Judy was found in. I've been curious about that hole if it was man made or not man made or if some animal dug a hole for some reason. However, I still think Judy was disoriented some how. Like her husband said, Judy wouldn't go with just anyone. He was a liar or he didn't know his wife the way he thought he did. Or non of what I think happened didn't happen and Judy just became too trusting of someone. So trusting to possibly have the person as a hiking companion. I have always thought that someone took the car away that Judy was driving. But the mystery is who took that car after Judy was murdered. And why wasn't this person seen by any witnesses. Maybe Judy dropped her companion off at the camp site then got the sandwiches and then came back.

 

[xLiqoricex]

http://archives.citypaper.net/articles/073098/om1.shtml?print=1

The above article clears up a few points.
The wedding ring was found the following spring when they did a second search of the area where the body was found. A caller from the Ashville area reported seeing her with "someone else". Constance would not say what sex this individual was but I'm guessing male. We do not know the circumstances of this sighting. I suspect that LE is looking for this gut as the probable perp.

The Ashville sightings are very important but I don't believe can be absolutely certain of them. The "Christmas Store" lady gave such detailed information (she was from Boston, her husband was attending a convention in Philly, she had two adult kids ) that it was either definitely her or the woman is fabricating, embellishing, fantasizing etc based on information she gleamed from the paper. I get them impression Constance is inclined to believe her.

One thing I noticed is a similarity of the description of the sighting in New Jersey and Christmas store lady: in both cases, the woman gave a lot of personal information. Some people are like that, they meet a stranger at some chance encounter and they proceed to start giving all kinds of details of their life. I find these types of people a little "nutty" but I do tend to remember them. If Judy was like that, it might explain why people remembered her.

According to the husband, she had only $200 with her when she disappeared and a credit card that was never used. Either there was a lot more money he did know about or a credit card he was unaware of. The fact that there was around $80 in two different articles of clothing at the crime scene is "odd". Did she routinely "hide" cash in various places? Did she not trust her "companion" so she stashed he money where she hoped he wouldn't find it? The wallet is definitely not at the crime scene. It's a good bet that it was taken.

So now there was a supposed sighting of Judy with "someone else." Ugh, this is too weird. Weird but I've believed it all along. I don't know and can't figure out when Judy met this unidentified person. If Judy didn't trust this person she was with and hid money why was she with this person in the first place. It sounds like Judy hasn't been thinking in the right mind at all. Maybe the perp was looking for something from Judy then quickly took out money but then transferred the money back into two different areas. Sounds crazy but could be a possibility. I also do think that a lot of those sightings of Judy were true. I doubt people would just make up stuff like that about Judy.

 

[xLiqoricex]

They didn't have DNA testing at that time. I wonder if they have done it since then. Good question!

I also demand DNA results and have for a LONG time now.