PA PA - Judy Smith, 50, Philadelphia, 10 April 1997

  • #301
That was mentioned in an article. Her's and his. Bank records, rental cars, hotels, planes, trains, buses, you name it. She either used a different name or someone else rented a car or the boogey man took her the NC or a .:ufo:

Good heavens I have a lot of catching up to do. But I honestly think someone else rented the car. But I just don't see how a family member could know something. I don't think the wife and husband had an arguement. IMO there just weren't enough signs to prove it. But if anything happened of this matter, the fight had to have happened either before the trip or in the hotel room. In this case the husbands statements were a lie then. Because he acted like everything went smoothly.
 
  • #302
I believe she took a Greyhound and went to NC in spite of what Hubby said. That's my opinion. I also believe she had more money than he thought she had. Maybe he gave her $200 to spend in Philly but she had more of her own. jmho..........

She might have used her old license to get the car....that might be the license she went back to get.

She rented a car in NC and pre-scheduled the auto rental co to pick up the car. They picked it up as scheduled and never noticed she was missing. Just thought she kept the keys.

LE looked for her under her married name (Smith) not her previous name and they missed it.

She went for a hike, was planning to spend the day in the mountains and she was murdered. She might have met up with a rapist/killer in the mountains or saw something she shouldn't have seen and was murdered because of it.

Mountain people don't want strangers getting into their business. They still have moonshine, pot growing, illegal hunting, and people hiding from the law. She might have run into the wrong person or seen something she shouldn't have seen.



Lmao, I'm so glad you finally found another article. Finding articles on Judy is like pulling teeth. They're really hard to find. But I read the article and a lot that has been stated in the article I believe to be true about Judy. Which leads me to think that Judy was disoriented some how because I really don't think Judy would just up and do something like she did. It was like she started living her own life away from her husband. Did she want this or not? I remember I posted something about the chi-town and her liking Asian foods but don't know what to make of it. The only clear sighting of her was the bathroom and then from there on all the other sightings are either true or they aren't. I don't know. I've never considered that Judy may have rented the car on her own with a license. This could confirm that Judy asked if she could sleep in her car at the specific place. It could be true and if Judy rented this car then maybe someone killed Judy on the spot by the hiking camp site and the person saw the car as an opportunity to escape. If this occurred that a murderer happened to be there the day Judy got there who happened to meet Judy and murdered her is just strange. These 30 sandwiches don't make sense to me. Maybe she was thinking she was with her entire family and this is why she got all of those sandwiches. I just don't see a killer sticking around to eat sandwiches with Judy. Why would a killer risk this? Why not just do the job and get out of there?


"She went for a hike, was planning to spend the day in the mountains and she was murdered. She might have met up with a rapist/killer in the mountains or saw something she shouldn't have seen and was murdered because of it"

This is something I believe the most- that Judy met her killer on the spot. Because why the heck would a killer stick around? I just don't see that happening. Why would a murderer risk being seen with a victim? I just don't see it. And another reason why I believe that Judy was killed on the spot there is because according to sightings- Judy didn't seem like she was in distress throughout her trip to NC. And again, a killer who just decided to go on a trip with her and decided to wait for a long time to kill her? I don't see how this would make sense except that the killer waited until Judy was isolated enough to do something to her.

Maybe Judy picked up a hitchhiker if she rented the car and the hiker told Judy to take him or her to the location where Judy was found so she could be killed there in isolation. But along the way, Judy told this person that she had to make a few stops. Maybe Judy got her and this hitch hiker something to eat before Judy was murdered. Then the hitchhiker took the car after the murder occurred.
 
  • #303
Well the dementia does fit right in and the cause of the dementia could be from long term drug use. Was she taking medication to lose weight, or for her pain with arthritis?

Alcoholic's also will have memory loss and become disoriented. I would imagine toxicology would have uncovered any drugs she would have ingested right? Unless she was taking some form of drugs and stopped using them, then wouldn't there be some kind of withdraw and could this be why nothing showed up on autopsy?

I do not believe a stranger abducted her in then took her down to NC. No way, a stranger would go through all that trouble. Unless she picked up a homeless person.

This case is so baffling and I wish I knew more that LE knew.
 
  • #304
Good heavens I have a lot of catching up to do. But I honestly think someone else rented the car. But I just don't see how a family member could know something. I don't think the wife and husband had an arguement. IMO there just weren't enough signs to prove it. But if anything happened of this matter, the fight had to have happened either before the trip or in the hotel room. In this case the husbands statements were a lie then. Because he acted like everything went smoothly.

SS never admitted they argued at the hotel but admitted they were having problems and her close friends and family said the same thing.
 
  • #305
Lmao, I'm so glad you finally found another article. Finding articles on Judy is like pulling teeth. They're really hard to find. But I read the article and a lot that has been stated in the article I believe to be true about Judy. Which leads me to think that Judy was disoriented some how because I really don't think Judy would just up and do something like she did. It was like she started living her own life away from her husband. Did she want this or not? I remember I posted something about the chi-town and her liking Asian foods but don't know what to make of it. The only clear sighting of her was the bathroom and then from there on all the other sightings are either true or they aren't. I don't know. I've never considered that Judy may have rented the car on her own with a license. This could confirm that Judy asked if she could sleep in her car at the specific place. It could be true and if Judy rented this car then maybe someone killed Judy on the spot by the hiking camp site and the person saw the car as an opportunity to escape. If this occurred that a murderer happened to be there the day Judy got there who happened to meet Judy and murdered her is just strange. These 30 sandwiches don't make sense to me. Maybe she was thinking she was with her entire family and this is why she got all of those sandwiches. I just don't see a killer sticking around to eat sandwiches with Judy. Why would a killer risk this? Why not just do the job and get out of there?


"She went for a hike, was planning to spend the day in the mountains and she was murdered. She might have met up with a rapist/killer in the mountains or saw something she shouldn't have seen and was murdered because of it"

This is something I believe the most- that Judy met her killer on the spot. Because why the heck would a killer stick around? I just don't see that happening. Why would a murderer risk being seen with a victim? I just don't see it. And another reason why I believe that Judy was killed on the spot there is because according to sightings- Judy didn't seem like she was in distress throughout her trip to NC. And again, a killer who just decided to go on a trip with her and decided to wait for a long time to kill her? I don't see how this would make sense except that the killer waited until Judy was isolated enough to do something to her.

Maybe Judy picked up a hitchhiker if she rented the car and the hiker told Judy to take him or her to the location where Judy was found so she could be killed there in isolation. But along the way, Judy told this person that she had to make a few stops. Maybe Judy got her and this hitch hiker something to eat before Judy was murdered. Then the hitchhiker took the car after the murder occurred.

Seems like we now have even mores questions than answers! :waitasec:
 
  • #306
Well the dementia does fit right in and the cause of the dementia could be from long term drug use. Was she taking medication to lose weight, or for her pain with arthritis?

Alcoholic's also will have memory loss and become disoriented. I would imagine toxicology would have uncovered any drugs she would have ingested right? Unless she was taking some form of drugs and stopped using them, then wouldn't there be some kind of withdraw and could this be why nothing showed up on autopsy?

I do not believe a stranger abducted her in then took her down to NC. No way, a stranger would go through all that trouble. Unless she picked up a homeless person.

This case is so baffling and I wish I knew more that LE knew.

I'm not really "up on" how much toxicolgy they can do when all they have are "bones". (gosh I hated saying that about a person). I know they did not have DNA then and I wonder if they have done any now that it is available to LE. Le had some clothing and other items.

I wish we could get some answers directly from LE.
 
  • #307
These 30 sandwiches don't make sense to me. Maybe she was thinking she was with her entire family and this is why she got all of those sandwiches. I just don't see a killer sticking around to eat sandwiches with Judy. Why would a killer risk this? Why not just do the job and get out of there?


She didn't buy 30 sandwiches. She spent $30 for sandwiches and a toy truck. Did I mess up and say 30 sandwiches..............lol If I did I apologize.
 
  • #308
OH I forgot her body was bones...ugh!

well where she worked I wonder if LE every inquired if any drugs were ever missing? Did she intend to meet a drug supplier in NC to stock up on her pain/weight meds and the deal went sour?
 
  • #309
Well the dementia does fit right in and the cause of the dementia could be from long term drug use. Was she taking medication to lose weight, or for her pain with arthritis?

Alcoholic's also will have memory loss and become disoriented. I would imagine toxicology would have uncovered any drugs she would have ingested right? Unless she was taking some form of drugs and stopped using them, then wouldn't there be some kind of withdraw and could this be why nothing showed up on autopsy?

I do not believe a stranger abducted her in then took her down to NC. No way, a stranger would go through all that trouble. Unless she picked up a homeless person.

This case is so baffling and I wish I knew more that LE knew.

As far as we know, JS wasn't on any medications. No one has said one way or another. I "assume" she was because of the autopsy stating she had "accute" arthritis in her knees. Very painful and her being a nurse and on her feet I'd think she took meds. imo

I don't think she was abducted in Philly either. Just doesn't fit or feel right to me. Judy wasn't a little woman and what would or could make her to into places alone and not ask for help. That doesn't make sense.

Either she knew her killer or she just ran into the wrong person.

One thing that sticks in my mind, SS said she took a shower in the hotel and put the same clothes back on even underwear. Her luggage was at the hotel and nothing was taken from it. Looked to Le like it hadn't been touched.

She was wearing other clothing and had other clothing in her bag in NC. What happened to the clothing she was wearing when she arrived in Philly?

When and where did she change? Maybe not important but it bugs me.
 
  • #310
JeannieC the more you post the more questions I have too.

I wonder if her supplier was an old doctor/nurse friend, she went to NC to visit to get some drugs. Maybe the reason why we don't know where the clothes are and other items is because she stayed at the killers house. Perhaps she was told they were going to go on a picnic and she was to bring food so she stopped at a truck stop and bought 30 sandwiches. (absurd I know) Just throwing things out there to get the mind thinking out of the box.
 
  • #311
OH I forgot her body was bones...ugh!

well where she worked I wonder if LE every inquired if any drugs were ever missing? Did she intend to meet a drug supplier in NC to stock up on her pain/weight meds and the deal went sour?

Judy did home nursing. She worked for a home care agency. She didn't seem like a person who would take drugs. One patient's family liked her so much they invited her to visit them in Thailand, which she did. She had a very good reputation as a nurse and caregiver.

SS was an attorney who specialized in pharmaceuticals. That was why he was in Philly. A pharmaceutical convention and he was on discussion panels and I believe he was a speaker.

I believe, at that time, he would have had access to drug samples. This occurred before samples were no longer allowed to be given out by the drug companies.

I hate to say this but the more I seek and the less I find the more I think all arrows point to SS.
 
  • #312
JeannieC the more you post the more questions I have too.

I wonder if her supplier was an old doctor/nurse friend, she went to NC to visit to get some drugs. Maybe the reason why we don't know where the clothes are and other items is because she stayed at the killers house. Perhaps she was told they were going to go on a picnic and she was to bring food so she stopped at a truck stop and bought 30 sandwiches. (absurd I know) Just throwing things out there to get the mind thinking out of the box.

She bought the sandwiches in Asheville, near the Biltmore House. The woman in the shop remembered her and gave details.

Keep throwing things out.........every little bit helps!
 
  • #313
Ok if SS was in pharmaceuticals, my guess is there was some type of drug that was promising but had sever side effects and he knew about it. Suppose he slipped one in her food or drink that morning. Maybe for reasons he just wanted to see what he heard was true or some other nefarious reasons. Once she hit the bathroom she started to have symptoms. Maybe she started to put two and two together. She left for NC to hide from SS. Somewhere SS was able to find her, he got down there some how and killed her and got back. I don't know how he did it but there has to be a day or so where he said he was somewhere but wasn't. OR some stranger killed her while she was hiding.
 
  • #314
Ok if SS was in pharmaceuticals, my guess is there was some type of drug that was promising but had sever side effects and he knew about it. Suppose he slipped one in her food or drink that morning. Maybe for reasons he just wanted to see what he heard was true or some other nefarious reasons. Once she hit the bathroom she started to have symptoms. Maybe she started to put two and two together. She left for NC to hide from SS. Somewhere SS was able to find her, he got down there some how and killed her and got back. I don't know how he did it but there has to be a day or so where he said he was somewhere but wasn't. OR some stranger killed her while she was hiding.

SS went down for breakfast while she showered. She didn't want to go. He was a the convention all day. He has witnesses. He participated and was very visible.

He went back to their room and she wasn't there. She was suppose to be back at 5 pm to attend a dinner with him. At 6 she still wasn't there. He reported her missing.

He was with LE and searching from that point on.
 
  • #315
From what I have read, the Smiths had been "together" 10 years, lived together for three but had been married less than a year. They were middle aged, had successful careers and each had children from prior marriages but no children together. Under the circumstances, it would be normal that they kept their finances separate and it would not be the least bit unusual if one (or both) had "secret" accounts or credit cards the other didn't know about. Judy may have financed her "trip" with one of these accounts. If she had a PO Box her husband didn't know about and a credit card in her maiden name, he and LE may never have learned of the charges. (It is also possible that he did find out about charges to an account for a lot of money; say for a rental car that was found abandoned that could easily run $5K to $10K, that he chose to conceal from LE for fear that he, as her husband, would be liable for the charges) This might explain his "reluctance" to take a Polygraph.

It is virtually impossible to rent a car without a credit card. (In the past some companies would accept a large cash deposit and a lot of good id). Either way, it seems unlikely, but not impossible that she rented a car and had it stolen by her assailant without LE ever becoming aware of it. I think it is far more likely she used public transportation and/or rode in a vehicle belonging to her new "friend".

One of the reported sightings in NC told of many bags of possessions in the car she was in. This would have been only a few days from her "disappearance" so it would be unlikely she would have obtained many processions that fast. If that was, in fact, her, the vehicle probably belonged to a traveling "companion" who was living a "nomadic" lifestyle.

The most likely explanation for her case is that she used the week she was expected to be in Philadelphia with her husband to take off on a fling/adventure/vacation from her marriage. She could expect her husband to be very upset but she may not have cared. Her children, family and friends would be another matter. Sometimes people just "pull a runner" and don't worry about the concern they cause their loved ones. She may have thought/hoped that her husband, out of shame, wouldn't tell anyone she was missing. If that was her expectation, she was wrong. These situations often raise the question of "mental illness".

If this "respectable, upper middle class woman really did just take off on a fling, is possible that she would hook-up with a "wanderer" with a car full of possessions? You wouldn't expect such a thing but, in this case, who knows.

Gary Hilton traveled around the Southern Appalachians during this period. I wonder if his whereabouts were ever established for April 1997.
 
  • #316
Great post...:great:

Very well thought out and some good points. Gary Hilton is a possiblity.
JS did have a her own phone and so did SS. She did still use her prior name because it was mentioned. They hadn't been married long and possibily she had not changed her name on everything. Credit Cards, bank accounts, old license, all of this is possible.

Gary Hilton...........I'll have to do some research on him. It is possible.
 
  • #317
Gary Hilton Helped With a Horror Movie


"The film called "Deadly Run" is about a serial killer who hunts women he sets free in the woods. The producer of the film, Samuel Rael, says Hilton came up with the plot. For the 1995 screenplay, he says Hilton suggested, "go ahead and let some beautiful women out in the woods and then they could be hunted down like prey."


http://www.wctv.tv/home/headlines/16683281.html
 
  • #318
Gary Hilton to be in court in Asheville July 25
By John Harbin
Times-News Staff Writer
Published: Friday, July 8, 2011 at 9:22 p.m.

Hilton, 65, is scheduled to be in court at 9:30 a.m. July 25. He has been indicted on two counts of first-degree murder, kidnapping, robbery and violent crimes in connection with the kidnapping, robbery and murder of John and Irene Bryant on national forest lands, according to court records

http://www.blueridgenow.com/article/20110708/ARTICLES/110709802
 
  • #319
Hilton now in Buncombe Jail

Convicted murderer Gary Michael Hilton is now in the Buncombe County jail as he awaits a hearing in the murder case of John and Irene Bryant in U.S. District Court next week.

http://www.blueridgenow.com/article/20110721/NEWS/110729943


Prior to 2007 Hilton was off the raidar. He did tell people years before that he had shot an killed his father.

He would be a good candidate for the murder of JS and a lot of other people. He just didn't get caught. He laughed in on interview when he was asked about other victims. He even commented that the reporter just wanted to find out about other unsolved murders.

He was executed in Fla. and took it all to his grave. Only DNA will tell the story now.
 
  • #320
http://www.wyff4.com/download/2008/0429/16061508.pdf

Written April 17, 2008

Makes me think he really could have killed Judith...........

I believe he killed many more people for a lot of years and just didn't get caught.

By the way for those who laughed at me about the bears and coyotes........laugh no more!
 

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