PA - Kenzie Houk, 26, pregnant, murdered, Wampum, 20 Feb 2009

[Fairy1]

Sadly, I think as a society we are far less civil to each other. It is nearly impossible to compare how children act today to children in the past. Childhood has greatly changed in our culture. Children have much different influences and many are very unhealthy. I think it is very hard to be a child in today's society, and it is equally difficult to be a parent today, as well.

I respectully disagree, OM. I honestly believe that we - overall - are much more civil as a society. Abuse against and exploitation of children has been going on since the beginning of time. If anything, our current laws, as lacking as they may be, have shed a spotlight on and brought some measure of accountability to crimes against children. That being said, we cannot control WHO has children and we cannot legislate parenting skills. Not everyone has the skills to be a good parent.

Childhood changes with every single generation. It's sad that we cannot (or should not) allow our children to run free in the world. But it is what it is. Anyone who is a parent needs to be in tune with the ways of the world and should parent accordingly. Then again, I believe we have become much too permissive with our children. IMO, any adult entering into a blended family situation, should be hyper-sensitive to their bio-kid's feelings. However, children still need to be made to understand that they are NOT in charge. If that were the case, I guess 11-year-olds would be running the store.

 

[southcitymom]

I respectully disagree, OM. I honestly believe that we - overall - are much more civil as a society. Abuse against and exploitation of children has been going on since the beginning of time. If anything, our current laws, as lacking as they may be, have shed a spotlight on and brought some measure of accountability to crimes against children. .....

I agree completely, Fairy.

 

[Openmind]

Ironically, my second cousin's "afterlife" was told to me by my aged aunt a few weeks ago because I was doing some ancestry searches. I don't know how much water it will hold, since she hasn't seen the boy/man in many, many years. She said it was a case of abuse, and, believe it or not, the judge in the case ended up raising the boy. She thought he turned out okay, but she's 88. Personally, I have no idea - wouldn't know him if he came to my front door.

I don't want to bore you with my family secrets, but my second cousin was a middle child of an only marriage. The other two kids never flew off the handle and were kept with the parents. Strange, huh?

It is an interesting case and one thing I have learned from TC is many, many things are strange in this world. Truthfully, I hope it is true. The fact a parent abuses only one child is very common so that part I think I would believe.

My mom is ninety and she is amazingly cognitive -- she remembers many things I wish she would forget.

 

[Openmind]

I respectully disagree, OM. I honestly believe that we - overall - are much more civil as a society. Abuse against and exploitation of children has been going on since the beginning of time. If anything, our current laws, as lacking as they may be, have shed a spotlight on and brought some measure of accountability to crimes against children. That being said, we cannot control WHO has children and we cannot legislate parenting skills. Not everyone has the skills to be a good parent.

I really was referring to how individuals interact with one another. Whether they were sincere or not, I think we used to be more polite and respectful to one another. What children saw in public tended to reflect the values most parents wanted their children to practice. The media makes some of the most offensive individuals celebrities. I agree, laws have become much more comprehensive in protecting and supporting children.

My first teaching job was in a small rural community of about 6,000 people. The first person I met was a ten year old boy that knocked on our door to sell us a newspaper. After we bought a copy, we noticed it was two days old. LOL -- we later discovered his mom serviced men in a run down hotel off the town square. The boy would sleep outside their room when his mom was working. Terrible situation. No social services to protect this child, but the principal of my school made sure the boy got to school each day, provided him with clothes, and made sure he had food. The boy did not want to leave his mother so everyone I knew filled in the gaps for him as best they could. The local convenience store gave him the day old newspapers to sell. Sadly, I have no idea what became of him.

Childhood changes with every single generation. It's sad that we cannot (or should not) allow our children to run free in the world. But it is what it is. Anyone who is a parent needs to be in tune with the ways of the world and should parent accordingly. Then again, I believe we have become much too permissive with our children. IMO, any adult entering into a blended family situation, should be hyper-sensitive to their bio-kid's feelings. However, children still need to be made to understand that they are NOT in charge. If that were the case, I guess 11-year-olds would be running the store.

Totally agree.

 

[Linda7NJ]

I do find it interesting how quickly some are to label this child sociopathic or evil while refusing to assign any responsibility to the adults in his life. I say this only because here on WS, we read stories EVERY DAY of horrific crimes against children perpetrated by adults. Yet cases of child-killers are so rare. Just strikes me as oddly skewed.

In this particular case, we have yet to learn details of the family dynamics, prior behavioral issues, etc. We have heard mainly from the victims' family and they, understandably, are not likely to be objective. They have lost a beautiful daughter, sister and mother and a baby boy I'm sure they looked forward to welcoming into this world. My heart goes out to them.

I don't know about ya'll but I NEED to understand why an 11-year-old child would murder someone in cold blood - likely premeditated - and then go off to school as if all was peachy. I cannot accept the idea that he's just a bad seed and we should lock him up and throw away the key. There is a reason he did it, just as there is a reason we're seeing more autistic children, more children with ADHD, more children doing drugs, joining street gangs, etc. If we don't seek out answers for all of these questions, we all will lose in the long run.

We can argue about gun control until the cows come home. But that's not really the issue here. It would seem there are youth rifles laying around all over the country that are never used to murder family members - or any other humans for that matter!

Fairy1,

Let me ask you. How would it be any different if her murderer was her husband? IMO it isn't. Bottom line, regardless the age the murderer...he simply thought his own life would be better without her in it, so he simply removed her.

Eleven years old or forty ...the killer believes his own selfish desires are more important than a human life and never consider for a second that they may not get away with it. For some reason people like this think they are smarter and more important than anyone else. The world around them is there to serve their wants and desires and they view people as tools, only as way to get their own needs met.

IMO

 

[Silly Me]

Here is a link to our hometown paper for coverage. Sad story for everyone involved, breaks my heart. ncnewsonline.com

 

[oceanblueeyes]

Here is a link to our hometown paper for coverage. Sad story for everyone involved, breaks my heart. ncnewsonline.com

Thank you. The photos of Kenzie are so heartbreaking. She seemed to be a very sweet person who loved many.

imo

 

[miimaa]

Fairy1,

Let me ask you. How would it be any different if her murderer was her husband? IMO it isn't. Bottom line, regardless the age the murderer...he simply thought his own life would be better without her in it, so he simply removed her.

Eleven years old or forty ...the killer believes his own selfish desires are more important than a human life and never consider for a second that they may not get away with it. For some reason people like this think they are smarter and more important than anyone else. The world around them is there to serve their wants and desires and they view people as tools, only as way to get their own needs met.

IMO

It would be very different if the murderer were her husband. An 11 year old does not have the maturity or skills to deal with intense emotions. They don't think of long-term consequences. I think ALL 11 year olds are self-serving to some degree and cannot accept that this boy is just a "bad seed". We don't know the family dynamics but something was seriously wrong if the boy had been verbalizing previously his feelings about the situation. It's very sad for all involved but I don't believe there weren't problems prior.

 

[I AM THE 14 CAR]

Fairy1,

Let me ask you. How would it be any different if her murderer was her husband? IMO it isn't. Bottom line, regardless the age the murderer...he simply thought his own life would be better without her in it, so he simply removed her.

Eleven years old or forty ...the killer believes his own selfish desires are more important than a human life and never consider for a second that they may not get away with it. For some reason people like this think they are smarter and more important than anyone else. The world around them is there to serve their wants and desires and they view people as tools, only as way to get their own needs met.

IMO

I realize that this reply wasnt directed to me but Id like to reply too. And this is only my opinion based on **charging a child as an adult** .

Your Question of "How would it be any different if her murderer was her husband?"

I personally see the answer different that you do.

A 40 yr old is an adult and thinks like an adult. His morals, logic, knowledge, interactions, emotions, intelligence, understanding, values, empathy,beliefs, wisdom, ETC. has already been instilled in him for years & years.. He has a better - deeper knowledge of responsibility & accountability & consequences than a child (whether he exhibits it or not). He has had many life experiences and seen many life experiences through other adults and knows the outcomes.

A child doesnt have this on the same level as an adult. A child, imo, is an adult that isnt finished being built. He/she is incomplete.

IMO, if a 40 yr old & a child should be treated the same way then they would of been born that way. There would be no need for care, love, nurturing, school, adult influences, etc.

Imo, children are an incomplete version of an adult that has to grow in every way to be a complete adult.


He needs to be punished by law, BIG TIME.....just not in the states ADULT system. Thats my issue on this.

Im not saying to just ground him for a week or 2 and be done with it. No Way !

He needs help and punishment in the juni system.

 

[Trino]

Thank you, 14. I agree the boy needs both therapy and punishment. I really hope he's kept in JD until he's 21. Anything less, and society will have made the loss of two lives unimportant.

 

[gitana1]

Millions of people in the USA still hunt for their food. Some prefer the meat of deer, than processed beef, which has a high content of fat and additives in it and deer meat doesn't. The American Heart Association recommends eating Venison. It is a healthy food.

I do know several families that do depend on hunting season to restock their supply of meat until next season. It is not as expensive to pay for processing the deer as it is buying meat by the pound in the supermarket.

We never heard of very young children murdering their parents years ago and back not too long ago weapons weren't locked away but the children did respect their parents and did as they were instructed to do.

imoo

Actually, although it did not happen much, earlier, when children were considered necessary to the financial survival of the family through work on farms and in factories, mines etc., and the concept of childhood or adolescence did not exist as it does today (hence, I believe children's brains developed more rapidly), there were children who murdered their parents and other horrific crimes that occurred on par with today's crimes. A very interesting book that details some of this is called Wisconsin Death Trip. Fascinating stuff. There are accounts of all sorts of horrific crimes in there including one in which a bunch of students beat to death their teacher, out on the prarie.
But again, my point is being lost in the exceptions to the rule you are citing. These are red herrings and do not follow the logic of the argument. There is not the need today for unsupervised access to guns for children as there was in the good ole' days. It was NECESSARY for children to hunt and work and help protect their families from roving bands of outlaws and Native Americans on the frontier. It was a very hard life full of extreme danger. A good movie illustrating a bit of what life looked like and the dangers that were present is The Missing by director Ron Howard. There were no police forces on the frontier like now. There was no 911. A nearest neighbor could be 100 miles away or more. It was a dirty, dismal life much more dangerous than today. It's not the same today. Please do not try to convince me that it is necessary for children today in this country to have unsupervised access to guns. Even if their families supplement their food with hunting.

I do find it interesting how quickly some are to label this child sociopathic or evil while refusing to assign any responsibility to the adults in his life. I say this only because here on WS, we read stories EVERY DAY of horrific crimes against children perpetrated by adults. Yet cases of child-killers are so rare. Just strikes me as oddly skewed.

In this particular case, we have yet to learn details of the family dynamics, prior behavioral issues, etc. We have heard mainly from the victims' family and they, understandably, are not likely to be objective. They have lost a beautiful daughter, sister and mother and a baby boy I'm sure they looked forward to welcoming into this world. My heart goes out to them.

I don't know about ya'll but I NEED to understand why an 11-year-old child would murder someone in cold blood - likely premeditated - and then go off to school as if all was peachy. I cannot accept the idea that he's just a bad seed and we should lock him up and throw away the key. There is a reason he did it, just as there is a reason we're seeing more autistic children, more children with ADHD, more children doing drugs, joining street gangs, etc. If we don't seek out answers for all of these questions, we all will lose in the long run.

We can argue about gun control until the cows come home. But that's not really the issue here. It would seem there are youth rifles laying around all over the country that are never used to murder family members - or any other humans for that matter!

But, I do agree with Fairy, in part. I think the issue really isn't ultimately about gun control. It's about parental responsibility and figuring out how to deal with children who may have emotional issues. One thing I can think of is therapy, supervision and hiding all firearms and knives from a child who has made death threats. It just makes sense. Another thing is putting one's own children's interests above one's own.
I wondered what Dr. Laura would say about these cases and lo' and behold, she talked about it
first thing this afternoon. She mentioned the unformed brains of children and she said that the irresponsibility of people who put the interests of their children second to their own interests in shacking up with new women and starting new families, forcing the first children to have to compete for attention with the new family, will cause many more of these types of killings in the future. Things need to change. It's in the same vein to me, as women so desperate for a man that they disregard the safety issues bringing a new guy around may pose for their young children. This carp has got to stop. You make a kid, your responsibility is to that kid, not your own desires to have a mate. My motto is no new family, no new mates involved with one's kids until those kids are of age. Period. I know it has worked for some and I think that's wonderful, but all too often it does not. It's not worth the risk, to me. Divorced, widowed or single parents can date, just don't bring them home and don't let them around your kids. MHO.

 

[SoobsinMI]

From what I have seen in blended families the mom and dad have to act as a team. They have to back each other even if they don't always agree with each other. If they disagree wait until they are alone and hash it out but not in front of the kids. One set of kids can't get corrected over certain things while the other group don't. That really causes problems among the kids. The parents have to agree over rules and discipline for all of the kids. I think it is harder then heck to combine two families. Seems like there is always one kid that creates problems for everyone. That is when mom and dad have to take a stand side by side.

I lived with a guy a long time ago. He had two kids and I had four. He refused to correct his kids because he only had them on weekends.

I agree with all of this. I think that "Disneyland" parents do a great disservice to their kids.

 

[passionflower]

http://www.wpxi.com/index.html

bio mom battles cancer, maternal grandma interiew

 

[passionflower]

http://www.wpxi.com/video/18796125/index.html

funeral and Kenzie mom and family........
2 little girls will be raised by aunt (mom's sister)

 

[Fairy1]

http://www.wpxi.com/index.html

bio mom battles cancer, maternal grandma interiew

This information is very illuminating to me - in more ways than one.

 

[chiperoni]

Actually, although it did not happen much, earlier, when children were considered necessary to the financial survival of the family through work on farms and in factories, mines etc., and the concept of childhood or adolescence did not exist as it does today (hence, I believe children's brains developed more rapidly), there were children who murdered their parents and other horrific crimes that occurred on par with today's crimes. A very interesting book that details some of this is called Wisconsin Death Trip. Fascinating stuff. There are accounts of all sorts of horrific crimes in there including one in which a bunch of students beat to death their teacher, out on the prarie.
But again, my point is being lost in the exceptions to the rule you are citing. These are red herrings and do not follow the logic of the argument. There is not the need today for unsupervised access to guns for children as there was in the good ole' days. It was NECESSARY for children to hunt and work and help protect their families from roving bands of outlaws and Native Americans on the frontier. It was a very hard life full of extreme danger. A good movie illustrating a bit of what life looked like and the dangers that were present is The Missing by director Ron Howard. There were no police forces on the frontier like now. There was no 911. A nearest neighbor could be 100 miles away or more. It was a dirty, dismal life much more dangerous than today. It's not the same today. Please do not try to convince me that it is necessary for children today in this country to have unsupervised access to guns. Even if their families supplement their food with hunting.



But, I do agree with Fairy, in part. I think the issue really isn't ultimately about gun control. It's about parental responsibility and figuring out how to deal with children who may have emotional issues. One thing I can think of is therapy, supervision and hiding all firearms and knives from a child who has made death threats. It just makes sense. Another thing is putting one's own children's interests above one's own.
I wondered what Dr. Laura would say about these cases and lo' and behold, she talked about it
first thing this afternoon. She mentioned the unformed brains of children and she said that the irresponsibility of people who put the interests of their children second to their own interests in shacking up with new women and starting new families, forcing the first children to have to compete for attention with the new family, will cause many more of these types of killings in the future. Things need to change. It's in the same vein to me, as women so desperate for a man that they disregard the safety issues bringing a new guy around may pose for their young children. This carp has got to stop. You make a kid, your responsibility is to that kid, not your own desires to have a mate. My motto is no new family, no new mates involved with one's kids until those kids are of age. Period. I know it has worked for some and I think that's wonderful, but all too often it does not. It's not worth the risk, to me. Divorced, widowed or single parents can date, just don't bring them home and don't let them around your kids. MHO.

I do appreciate your information and agree with the sociological history and information you presented.. I believe, however, that if the gun was secured and locked away the killing could not have happened. The shooting was swift... execution style and facillitated an easy way for an 11 year old to express his anger. Common sense tells me children should not have access to an unsecured gun. A household with children and unsecured guns present what the law says is "an attractive nuisance" and there can be accidental shootings resulting in serious injury or death. One of my students who was a foster child was accidently killed by the sixteen year old son in the household. I will never forget that sweet little girl. Adults have a right to be armed but in my opinion I don't think children should have access to a gun without supervision. That's basic and then we can examine these problems of rebellious and angry children due to all the issues you presented so well.

 

[Fairy1]

I do appreciate your information and agree with the sociological history and information you presented.. I believe, however, that if the gun was secured and locked away the killing could not have happened. The shooting was swift... execution style and facillitated an easy way for an 11 year old to express his anger. Common sense tells me children should not have access to an unsecured gun. A household with children and unsecured guns present what the law says is "an attractive nuisance" and there can be accidental shootings resulting in serious injury or death. One of my students who was a foster child was accidently killed by the sixteen year old son in the household. I will never forget that sweet little girl. Adults have a right to be armed but in my opinion I don't think children should have access to a gun without supervision. That's basic and then we can examine these problems of rebellious and angry children due to all the issues you presented so well.

ITA. There is no reason for children to have unsupervised access to hunting weapons - ever. And you're absolutely right; while cases involving alleged child killers are rare, we do see accidental killings by children quite often. Once again, it's simple common sense and responsibility IMO.

And gitana, while I agree with the majority of what you have stated, I have to respectfully disagree on one point. My children were 2 and 5 when I met my husband - thier father. I was extremely cognizant of their feelings during the beginning of our relationship and went above and beyond to keep them talking about how they were feeling every step of the way. It was not easy for any of us, but it worked out. Their bio dad took himself out of the picture in short order and my DH has been there for them since day one. He really is the only father they've ever known and we're all grateful for him. If I had waited until my kids were grown before welcoming this man into our lives, they would have missed out on so very much. He has been a wonderful father for many years and will continue to be.

I think that every family is different. Children are different, parents are different, circumstances are different. The key - as with most things in life - is communication. I KNOW my children. I have always known their personalities, dispositions, limitations, potential. If a child begins to act out in any way - it's a red flag. It could be something very simple or very serious. If you know your babies and learn how to ask the right questions, you can get to the bottom of it. Ignoring it or minimalizing it is the worst thing a parent can possibly do. I think most parents have rose-colored glasses on where their children are concerned. But as SoobsinMI said, being a "Disneyland" parent does the child no good.

 

[gitana1]

I do appreciate your information and agree with the sociological history and information you presented.. I believe, however, that if the gun was secured and locked away the killing could not have happened. The shooting was swift... execution style and facillitated an easy way for an 11 year old to express his anger. Common sense tells me children should not have access to an unsecured gun. A household with children and unsecured guns present what the law says is "an attractive nuisance" and there can be accidental shootings resulting in serious injury or death. One of my students who was a foster child was accidently killed by the sixteen year old son in the household. I will never forget that sweet little girl. Adults have a right to be armed but in my opinion I don't think children should have access to a gun without supervision. That's basic and then we can examine these problems of rebellious and angry children due to all the issues you presented so well.

Yes, that's pretty much what I have been saying. I don't think we disagree. I was responding to a post that was responding to mine. I completely agree that children should not have unsupervised acees to guns. Adding parental irresponsibility in not addressing the needs of children or putting the adult's needs above the children's interests just adds fuel to the fire. I guess you could call a requirement that children be supervised when using firearms and guns kept locked when parents aren't around, gun control. And I'm all for that.

 

[gitana1]

ITA. There is no reason for children to have unsupervised access to hunting weapons - ever. And you're absolutely right; while cases involving alleged child killers are rare, we do see accidental killings by children quite often. Once again, it's simple common sense and responsibility IMO.

And gitana, while I agree with the majority of what you have stated, I have to respectfully disagree on one point. My children were 2 and 5 when I met my husband - thier father. I was extremely cognizant of their feelings during the beginning of our relationship and went above and beyond to keep them talking about how they were feeling every step of the way. It was not easy for any of us, but it worked out. Their bio dad took himself out of the picture in short order and my DH has been there for them since day one. He really is the only father they've ever known and we're all grateful for him. If I had waited until my kids were grown before welcoming this man into our lives, they would have missed out on so very much. He has been a wonderful father for many years and will continue to be.

I think that every family is different. Children are different, parents are different, circumstances are different. The key - as with most things in life - is communication. I KNOW my children. I have always known their personalities, dispositions, limitations, potential. If a child begins to act out in any way - it's a red flag. It could be something very simple or very serious. If you know your babies and learn how to ask the right questions, you can get to the bottom of it. Ignoring it or minimalizing it is the worst thing a parent can possibly do. I think most parents have rose-colored glasses on where their children are concerned. But as SoobsinMI said, being a "Disneyland" parent does the child no good.

I can't argue with you. It looks like your situation was beneficial to everyone and your kids won. However, many people aren't as in tune with their kids as you. Unfortunately, many parents put their desires for love over the children's need for stability and security. Many mothers ignore red-flags or don't look for them, because they want to keep the man. And some people are great, in-tune, etc, but when they have seen the red flags, maybe it's too late by then. The red flag could be a sign that a person's lovely, devoted spouse is secretly abusing the person's child. So they catch the red flag, but it's too late to turn the clock back on the abuse. I frankly think it's more common for re-marriages or new relationships in our country to be detrimental to the children of the first famil than it is beneficial, unfortunately. What you had was fantastic, but often, it's not. So what does a person do? Take the risk or stay alone? In cases like yours where the kids have essentially lost a parent and could use a great role model, it's a very important question. Your story is what many hope to have but many just can't have it. That's the risk I don't want to take.

 

[yosande]

This article was wrtten on Sunday morning.
This is so wrong! This is an 11 year old boy. His name should not have been released. Did he change his clothes before he went to school? Shouldn't there be blowback on his clothes and body?
Did he take a shower after doing this?
snipped from article;
{But before he left home on Friday, authorities say, the boy had shot his father's pregnant fiancee in the back of the head as she lay in bed. He then put his youth model 20-gauge shotgun back in his room before going out to catch his bus, police say.}

This shouldn't even be reported until they have some evidence other than inconsistencies in what he said.
snipped from article;
{ Inconsistencies in the child's description of the truck }


According to the article there were "tree cutters" on the property?
Where was the dad of this boy, and unborn son?
snipped from article;
{The boy's father, Christopher Brown, is "a mess" and had no indication his son had a problem with Houk}
If either adult living in the home thought for a second he was a psychopath i seriously doubt they would have let him bring a gun home, with ammo!!!!


I'm disgusted with this journalism, and LE, putting an 11 year old in jail with adults. I really think by reading this article that LE acted on emotion or sensationalism. The kid was still in school when they arrested him? They lost five hours investigating other leads? Hello?
And jumping to the conclusion that he is a psychopath? I want way more evidence, and if anyone deserves to be considered innocent until proven guilty in a court of law, it's a child. To charge him as an adult on a Saturday when no one is working is just soooo wrong. They could have decided that on a Monday.
This is just crazy!