PA - Michael, 50, & Cathryn Borden, 50, shot to death, 13 Nov 2005

[newtv]

Not sure that this is right, I doubt that anyone here WANTS her to have been involved, we're just looking into the possibilities. That's what this discussion forum is about, isn't it?

Hopefully she will be cleared. I believe all points of view are worthy of discussion.

well if that is so the wording of the article goes out of its way to say
Kara MAYYYYYY possibly have gotten into the car...and the post says article says she got into the car voluntarily-and the article is not as misleading as the wording of the post-my point being it seems to want to have the reader believe they realy have info that she did this of her own volition-then u read it and its no more or less than anyone might speculate..
I agree with diverse points of view but not at the expense of accuracy..
for the time being LE have released her-they do not release people very often so that should tell us more-the rest is speculation at best and people looking for a story or the worst of life vs the best..
jmo
and the posts i am reading here seem to enjoy the possibility that she may be involved-if it was your daughter (anyone's), I think u would wait and see before fueling this kind of erroneous info..
the article doesnt even say what the post implies it does.

 

[PrayersForMaura]

Scandi, it was 54 guns. Plenty guns for one house I would think.

yep, 54...

LITITZ, Pa. Authorities say they've seized 54 guns from the Pennsylvania home of an 18-year-old man charged with killing his girlfriend's parents and fleeing the state with her.

Court documents say Warwick Township police removed the collection of rifles, shotguns, handguns and ammunition Sunday from the home where suspect David Ludwig was living with his parents. The search took place as police were still trying to find him and 14-year-old Kara Beth Borden

http://www.whbf.com/Global/story.asp?S=4136758&nav=0zGo

 

[Beyond Belief]

Good grief, nobody should be allowed to have that quantity of arms in their homes. If their collector pieces they should be put in a museum, not in someones home.

 

[ember]

yep, 54...

LITITZ, Pa. Authorities say they've seized 54 guns from the Pennsylvania home of an 18-year-old man charged with killing his girlfriend's parents and fleeing the state with her.

http://www.whbf.com/Global/story.asp?S=4136758&nav=0zGo

All of those guns...wow...54 seems like a lot to me, but not to a collector, I suppose...
They should have been under tight lock and key, especially w/kids in the house.
Yes, I think 18 years old is still a kid to some degree. Does he have siblings? how old? The guns were obviously way too accessible! Geesh!

For such bible thumpers, they all sure had some screaming hypocritical tendencies...such a arsenal to hunt? Well, they may be a collection...but we know they hunted too.The rule is; Thou Shalt Not Kill", not "thou shalt not kill humans". And the 18 yr old just got it wrong altogether! I'm not even a religious type and have never fully read the Bible and I know that.

Not that I have anything against hunters, my husband is an avid hunter.We agree to disagree on that subject. I'm a vegetarian and I put spiders back outside. I guess opposites do attract...we are best friends, we adore each other...but can also respect our differences. It works!
Just wanted to make that clear.
To each their own...but it's just not my idea of a good time.
I just don't understand how any life can be so disposable...except for sex preds, child abusers, murders, terrorists and the like.

Lili...you are right...people kill people. Guns are a good thing when taught to respect them and when you have your head on perfectly straight...

the above is JMOFWIW !

 

[ketel0ne]

http://www.planethuff.com/darkside/archives/001182.html

http://www.xanga.com/KaraBerry

 

[newtv]

Good grief, nobody should be allowed to have that quantity of arms in their homes. If their collector pieces they should be put in a museum, not in someones home.

54 guns seems excessive to me-unless they are collectors and they were in cases that are locked-but to have that many guns just around in places easy to access is excessive
u dont need 54 guns to protect yourself and your property..
however the real issue imo is he was not taught a healthy respect for the guns-and that tells me that the 54 are not in cases - it tells me weilding a gun in his family could not have been unusual in the least-and thats got nothing to do with the sport.
Most sport hunters have respect for the weopon and dont give the impression to their kids that guns are common place and dont kill.
If u shoot a gun chances are somoene is hurt or killed-so why shoot it off - because he must have had that modelled to him in attitude by his own parents..
u dont get a bad or wreckless attitude about guns in a weekend-it starts with what is shown to him at home from birth..
It still isnt an excuse-he is old enuf to understand what he was doing-but to give himself the permission to kill for such a stupid reason tells me there is not a lot of respect for life in that family.
I could not kill an animal as a sport-I dont hunt-but I do love people who hunt and I also know they dont frighten me becase they hunt game not people. There guns are instruments of the hobby not weopons for killing humans..
Its people who give guns a bad name but it also doesnt help when so many people have access to guns so readily-if he did not have the guns handy he might have had to go buy one and maybe that would have stopped the insanity long enuf to change his mind.

 

[Lili]

Thank you ember. Yes, guns are to be respected. I also think that too many people think a "gun cabinet" is as good as a gun safe. It's not. Cabinets are too easily broken into. These are gun safes. I realize that not everyone can afford one, but IMO anyone who can afford such a huge collection should have one similar to these. Not only to protect children or others, as in this case, but to protect the collection from damage or theft.

With 6 hunters in our household we purchased an old safe from a store that was going out of business and remodeled the interior to accomodate the long guns and the drawers are perfect for handguns and ammo. It keeps everything locked up, safe from fire and wondering little minds.

 

[kato]

All of those guns...wow...54 seems like a lot to me, but not to a collector, I suppose...
They should have been under tight lock and key, especially w/kids in the house.
Yes, I think 18 years old is still a kid to some degree. Does he have siblings? how old? The guns were obviously way too accessible! Geesh!

For such bible thumpers, they all sure had some screaming hypocritical tendencies...such a arsenal to hunt? Well, they may be a collection...but we know they hunted too.The rule is; Thou Shalt Not Kill", not "thou shalt not kill humans". And the 18 yr old just got it wrong altogether! I'm not even a religious type and have never fully read the Bible and I know that.

Not that I have anything against hunters, my husband is an avid hunter.We agree to disagree on that subject. I'm a vegetarian and I put spiders back outside. I guess opposites do attract...we are best friends, we adore each other...but can also respect our differences. It works!
Just wanted to make that clear.
To each their own...but it's just not my idea of a good time.
I just don't understand how any life can be so disposable...except for sex preds, child abusers, murders, terrorists and the like.

Lili...you are right...people kill people. Guns are a good thing when taught to respect them and when you have your head on perfectly straight...

the above is JMOFWIW !

Would you kill a roach? I can't stand them! Especially when I see one of those big, flying ones. I scream bloody murder and run for the hills. You would think I was being murdered. LOL

 

[richandfamous]

More from the Lancaster message board from someone who says they know the families

"QUOTE(taxpayer17578 @ Nov 17 2005, 03:09 PM) [snapback]139168[/snapback]


There was an "invitation only" meeting at Lititz Christian Church (David's church) last night. The audience was asked to submit their questions on slips of paper to the pastor and he said he would answer them. (By the way, two of the subjects in the boozing hunting pictures were present - appearing to be a father & son.) The Pastor was handed one slip that asked him why David's situation from this summer wasn't dealt with. The pastor's reply was that he wasn't going to go into detail for those who DIDN'T know what this was about, but answered to those who DID know that he asked probably 30 times to meet with David and 30 times he was told no... so it was dropped. I would say this was "inadequately addressing" the situation.

So, would the pastor's knowledge would be deemed "confidential" since he didn't counsel David, or could it be used in court?"

Take this with a grain of salt...Don't know if I believe this poster or not but time will tell.

 

[MrsMush99]

Link

Attorney: Man charged with murdering girlfriend's parents is scared, confused

LANCASTER, Pa. (AP) — An 18-year-old who's charged with killing his girlfriend's parents before fleeing with the 14-year-old girl is frightened and confused, his attorney said Wednesday.

David Ludwig is being held without bail on murder and kidnapping charges after being flown back to Lancaster County on Tuesday from Indiana, where police captured him following a chase.

His attorney, public defender Merrill M. Spahn, said he will ask for a postponement of a scheduled Nov. 23 preliminary hearing.

 

[Hbgchick]

http://www.planethuff.com/darkside/archives/001182.html

[url="http://www.xanga.com/KaraBerry"]http://www.xanga.com/KaraBerry[/url]

It's a hoax. Kara never once used capitalization in any of her other web sites.

 

[kato]

Link

Attorney: Man charged with murdering girlfriend's parents is scared, confused

LANCASTER, Pa. (AP) — An 18-year-old who's charged with killing his girlfriend's parents before fleeing with the 14-year-old girl is frightened and confused, his attorney said Wednesday.

David Ludwig is being held without bail on murder and kidnapping charges after being flown back to Lancaster County on Tuesday from Indiana, where police captured him following a chase.

His attorney, public defender Merrill M. Spahn, said he will ask for a postponement of a scheduled Nov. 23 preliminary hearing.

As well his *ss should be scared. *sshole.

 

[richandfamous]

Ditto, Kato

 

[kato]

Ditto, Kato

Hey rich! Hope all is well with you. Sorry, OT.

 

[mysteriew]

Police seized 54 guns from the home of an 18-year-old man charged with killing his girlfriend's parents and fleeing the state with her, according to court documents filed Thursday.

Warwick Township police removed the weapons, which included an array of rifles, shotguns, handguns and ammunition, on Sunday afternoon from the home where suspect David Ludwig lived with his parents. The search occurred as police were still trying to find him and 14-year-old Kara Beth Borden.

Investigators have said that they are treating Kara as a crime victim but that the investigation is continuing.
http://www.centredaily.com/mld/centredaily/13197721.htm

http://www.whptv.com/news/local/story.aspx?content_id=B0DDBEEA-0864-453C-A20F-B763B654F422

 

[Hbgchick]

My daughter is 14 and it would be a cold day in hell before she would ever be allowed to date an 18yo!

Well, that's the whole reason the parents ended up dead, wasn't it? She wasn't allowed.

 

[scandi]

They say the brain is not completely developed until the age of 21. I'm wondering if all of these recent crimes by late adolescents might hinge on this fact?

Scandi

 

[richandfamous]

Hey rich! Hope all is well with you. Sorry, OT.

Hey kato...yep, just enjoying the slowdown season at work...whew! Cheers to you! lol

Back to that Lancaster message board for a minute...there seems to be several ppl posting that know the ppl involved. interesting to say the least!

 

[mysteriew]

The 14-year-old Pennsylvania girl found in Indiana 24 hours after her parents were allegedly killed by her boyfriend is a victim, according to friends, family and now the teen's attorney.

"She has not been charged with anything, and we do not expect her to be charged with anything," Robert Beyer, attorney for Kara Borden, told ABC News. "The only reason legal counsel has been retained is to protect her rights as a child, to protect her rights as a victim and to protect her rights as a potential witness.''
http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/story?id=1313705

 

[Hbgchick]

The 14-year-old Pennsylvania girl found in Indiana 24 hours after her parents were allegedly killed by her boyfriend is a victim, according to friends, family and now the teen's attorney.
http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/story?id=1313705

Well, that makes sense, does it not? What else would her attorney say? "Oh yes. My client was involved in this from the beginning"? :waitasec: