PA - Michael, 50, & Cathryn Borden, 50, shot to death, 13 Nov 2005

[Olivia77]

At 14 a girl has usually just graduated from dolls. She is recieving some higher doses of hormones. She has learned if she dresses in certain ways then those mysterious creatures called boys look at her and smiles at her. Those little boys they played house with, become shy and awkward when they smile. And they become nice and give her attention. Their girlfriends have boyfriends. They talk about them. A lot! They talk about all the boys, and who is wearing what, and who said what, and who did what. They are learning to distinguish what is cool, and what isn't. Boyfriends are cool. Movies are cool. Music is cool. Being an adult is cool. They aren't sure what happens with boys, but since sex is cool they are eager to experience it (and they are starting to get a push from those hormones). But a good girl doesn't have sex unless she is in love and wants to get married. So if they want to have sex with someone, then they must be in love and want to get married.

I am an adult now. But I remember being 14. I remember looking at boys and wanting a boyfriend. Badly. But I was too shy. And not really sure how to get a boyfriend. That was many years ago. Now there are movies about it, music about it, magazines about, and it is discussed more openly. Girls are maturing physically earlier, whether we want them to or not. They spend an awful lot of their time thinking about these things, whether we want them to or not. But to them, it is sort of like playing house. They still haven't grasped the realities yet.
Now this 14 year old. She gets an 18 year old boyfriend. She must really be something, cause he loves her. They have sex, so they must be in love. They want to get married. Her parents are standing in the way of true love. She knows it is true love because he is grown up enough to come to her house and argue with her parents, in order to keep her.
Then in a warped moment of time, her parents are shot and her world is changing........what will happen to her, who will love her? Her parents are dead, and her boyfriend is leaving. The realities are overwhelming. They can't be dead, and he can't be leaving her. But he loves her doesn't he? That is why all this happened. He shot her parent's, but that can't be real, he didn't mean to. He couldn't have meant to. What will he do now? What will she do now?
She is 14. She believes in playing house. She believes that true love conquer's all.

THANK YOU for this post. I'm only 28, not far enough away to forget what 14 was like, and you explained it perfectly... I think in Kara's case it the decision to leave was a terrible split second decision fueled by adrenalin and lust. It all must have seemed so surreal to her.

That said, I'm also pretty certain at 14 I personally would not run off in a car with someone who shot my parents, and I don't believe she was brainwashed. I don't buy into the idea that 14 year olds are so immature and not developed that they should be completely exempt from any punishment for their poor choices. At 14, I certainly knew the difference from right and wrong, and distinctly remember watching a kid my age get off on a murder charge on tv and thinking to myself, I know murder is wrong, how creepy that I could go kill someone and not *actually get punished for it knowing full well murder is evil - I was furious at what I considered an injustice. While 14 year olds are immature, they're not stupid and many know the difference between right and wrong. I don't think Kara should be lynched by any means, but she needs to be held responsible for for her poor choices, she's not 5 years old, nor was she kidnapped. If for no other reason, than to send the message to other kids out there that their disobeying their parents can be deadly.

 

[mysteriew]

COURT DOCUMENTS JUST RELEASED REVEAL LUDWIG ARRIVED AT THE BORDEN'S HOUSE WITH A GUN HIDDEN IN HIS PANTS, A BLANKET AROUND A HUNTING KNIFE, AND A 22-CALIBER PISTOL.
AND, JUST TODAY, A JUDGE GRANTED PERMISSION FOR PROSECUTORS TO SEARCH BOTH BORDEN AND LUDWIG'S ELECTRONIC EQUIPMENT.
THE TWO ARE BELIEVED TO HAVE USED THEIR CELL PHONES, COMPUTERS, AND WEBSITES TO COMMUNICATE RIGHT UP UNTIL THE TIME OF THE MURDERS.
http://www.wfmz.com/cgi-bin/tt.cgi?action=viewstory&storyid=10766

 

[Ella]

If there are criminal charges the schools have no problem getting rid of the offender. But if it is not a felony, forget it.
We don't have to wait thirty years for the results from home schooling. There are success stories everywhere. I don't think home schooling has anything to do with this kid's choices. He had friends and a social life. He was a little creep. If he would have been in public school he would have killed people there. He is a murderer. And the little buggar will not get out of this one.

 

[Ella]

Could be her controlling husband wouldn't let her turn up the heat.
Personally I think she was just staying calm and praying about the situation.

 

[mysteriew]

I am not saying she should be exempt from punishment. I am saying, she made stupid decisions (not unusual for inexperienced 14 year old kids). But society will punish her long and hard for her split second decision. But unless some evidence is develops that she was aware of what was going to occur, then I don't think legal charges are appropriate.
And along that line, today they have gotten a warrant to search all electronic equipment in both the Borden and Ludwig homes.

 

[Olivia77]

I am not saying she should be exempt from punishment. I am saying, she made stupid decisions (not unusual for inexperienced 14 year old kids). But society will punish her long and hard for her split second decision. But unless some evidence is develops that she was aware of what was going to occur, then I don't think legal charges are appropriate.
And along that line, today they have gotten a warrant to search all electronic equipment in both the Borden and Ludwig homes.

Sorry mysteriew, I wasn't trying to put words in your mouth. I was combining a post to you with my own personal thoughts on the case. I saw your post about the e-search, I'm afraid of what they will find../

 

[IdahoMom]

I don't know whether the father was "controlling" or not, but he absolutely was doing the right thing as a father in putting the kabosh on his daughter's relationship with an 18 year old! ESPECIALLY since they were reportedly out all night the night before.

 

[Bobbisangel]

It will be interesting to see what all LE find on their computors and cell phones. I don't think we've even heard anything yet.

Kara may not have known that David planned to murder her parents but how could she leave with him....run down the drive/road toward him waving her hands/arms for him to stop and let her in the car...when she had just seen him blow her parents away???? If she hadn't stopped him he would have kept going...he was headed out of there. And then while they are on the run they are making plans for the future like nothing even happened. I think that says a lot about both of them...I don't care if Kara is only 14 yrs...that is about as cold as it can get.

No matter what LE finds I think it has already been determined that Kara will walk away from this. I don't think she will be charged with a thing. She will be known as... the poor little girl that got taken in by this older boy and must have been under his spell when she left with him. I don't buy it but I'd bet money that that is what will happen.

 

[mysteriew]

I am afraid also. I don't want to think that she had anything to do with the death of her parents. But I know it has happened in other cases, so I know it is a possibility. I will give her the benefit of the doubt up until they find proof. If they find proof she participated or was aware of the impending death of her parents, then I hope they charge her with every major and minor crime they can find. But until it has been shown that she was aware, I will continue to look at her as a typical teen. Not an angel, not a devil, but not always real intelligent or experienced in what are good decisions.
And no, I didn't take what you said personally. I think we are all struggling to come to terms with this one.
It is personal to us. We were kids once, many of us are parents or expecting to be parents one day. We all have had parents. That makes it too close.

 

[KatherineQ]

I don't know whether the father was "controlling" or not, but he absolutely was doing the right thing as a father in putting the kabosh on his daughter's relationship with an 18 year old! ESPECIALLY since they were reportedly out all night the night before.

I agree with you completely, IdahoMom. I feel so strongly about this.

This is a father's job, and he was doing it. And now he's dead.

His job is to protect his children. His 14 year old daughter was foolishly going out with an 18 year old boy, and the father rightly stepped in and insisted it stop. God bless him, that's his job.

Where were this boy's parents? Their job was to keep numerous firearms out of their wayward son's car. Had he not had guns, this story would have turned out the way it was supposed to have - the father of the girl would have had his say, and this boy would be sent packing.

I'm a little surprised so little is being said about David's family. They need to be aware they were grossly remiss - he had a LOT OF GUNS in his car. Kara's parents were doing their job - where were David's parents? If they have any younger children in the home, maybe more supervision of that household needs to be done.

 

[SewingDeb]

LANCASTER, Pa. -- The lawyer for a 14-year-old girl who ran off with her boyfriend after he allegedly shot her parents to death said the girl did not know that he was going to kill the two.

Attorney Robert Beyer said in a telephone interview with The Associated Press that Kara Borden had no role in the shootings of her parents, Michael and Cathryn Borden.

The two were shot to death inside their Pennsylvania home on Nov. 13.

Beyer said Borden is only "a witness. And a victim to the extent that her parents were killed."

http://www.nbc4i.com/news/5386114/detail.html

 

[KatherineQ]

LANCASTER, Pa. -- The lawyer for a 14-year-old girl who ran off with her boyfriend after he allegedly shot her parents to death said the girl did not know that he was going to kill the two.

Attorney Robert Beyer said in a telephone interview with The Associated Press that Kara Borden had no role in the shootings of her parents, Michael and Cathryn Borden.

The two were shot to death inside their Pennsylvania home on Nov. 13.

Beyer said Borden is only "a witness. And a victim to the extent that her parents were killed."

http://www.nbc4i.com/news/5386114/detail.html

I've seen this article posted about 6 places today.

That's the lawyers job, to say his client is innocent.

Maybe it's true. I'm waiting for the prosecutor to say what charges will or will not come out of this.

 

[netsleuth]

(CBS) It appears the case against a Pennsylvania teen accused of killing his girlfriend's parents is shaping up as one that will also result in counts being filed against the girlfriend, perhaps even murder charges, according to one expert.

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2005/11/22/earlyshow/main1065677.shtml?CMP=ILC-SearchStories

 

[SewingDeb]

http://www.nbc4i.com/news/5386114/detail.html

Lawyer: Girl Didn't Participate In Parents' Slaying

 

[docwho3]

I hate to say it but I have slowly been getting the idea that this case was partly about 2 children born into families of much better than average financial means and who,as a result, seemed to somehow come to the conclusion that rules did not apply to them. I am not just trying to bash people for having money. (I am glad when people do well.) But I have seen this attitude in children before in similar financial settings. Although usually the result is a teen preggers or hooked on drugs or an elopement. But sometimes the result is also people getting violent.

I guess I am wondering how much of what happened was because one or more of those involved was incapable of feeling for others and how much of that was an attitude acquired over time by being overindulged and undersupervised.

If anyone has thoughts about this that can help me understand (one way or the other) then post away

 

[kk's mom]

I don't know whether the father was "controlling" or not, but he absolutely was doing the right thing as a father in putting the kabosh on his daughter's relationship with an 18 year old! ESPECIALLY since they were reportedly out all night the night before.

Great post IM. Couldn't agree with you more. He was being a good dad. He was concerned for his daughter. This tragedy confuses the heck out of me. I don't think that Kara knew that David Ludwig was going to kill her parents. But jeez, after he shoots both her parents dead, what did she do, step over her Dad's body in the hallway to run out and be with the love of her life? Comon! She didn't stay with her parents nor her siblings. She thought about herself and ran after the guy who just murdered her parents for cryin out loud. Did she really expect to live happily ever after? Good grief. She's the one that's going to have to live with this for the rest of her life. I couldn't help but think when I saw pictures of her at her parents funeral...she looked like she was grieving. But part of me wondered was she grieving for the boy she would never be with again? I don't know - I hate to think that way but she seems to be a very selfish girl. And I don't know about any of you, but if my sister became involved with some guy who disrupted our family life and then because of my sister's poor choices, this guy ended up murdering my mother and father, I'd have a hard time forgiving her for that. I might still love her because she was my sister, but I don't think I could forgive her for changing our lives forever. And as far as this guys family goes, did they know he had 50+ guns in their home?

 

[Gabby]

Maybe He threatened to kill Her if she did not come along... Maybe she didn't know that her parents were dead... or maybe she was in shock? I mean she is 14.. not an adult and not a child... I am not condoning what she did...but I am thinking there is more to it than we know.

 

[Cherry Ames]

dont ask me-ask those who say they can define it- apparently this girl is outside the norm-ask them not me

And whom might that be? People that consider themselves "riteous"? What's the opposite of riteous? Rongious?

 

[Cherry Ames]

Hi Cherry Ames,

Welcome to WS as I see you are quite new. :hand:

I think newtv meant righteous, as in 'the best'. She would answer your question like Jack Flash, but I don't think she has seen your post yet!


Scandi

Hello, Doll! Actually I'm an old-timer here - just haven't posted in awhile.

 

[Ella]

Probably not. He might have had a girlfriend his own age and be allowed to express himself openly, not feel like he had to hide his feelings and express them only to other kids who were hiding their emerging adult "true selves' from their families, who were determiedn to keep them in the role of children for the rest of their lives.

You're right. Kids in public school are just more well adjusted. If only he had been in public school he would have lost his desire to date underage girls, lie, and plan night raids. Hopefully they will round up all kids being home schooled and ship them back into the public schools because of this on bad seed.
So far the only red flag on this kid is that his parents seemed to have no control of him and did not hold him accountable for his actions.