PA - Michael, 50, & Cathryn Borden, 50, shot to death, 13 Nov 2005

[mysteriew]

No actually what I was describing was the locked ward at my local hospital. Not even long term care.
The point I was getting at is that the persons who are there, are often the very types you don't want your kids associating with. Yes, they have their place, sometimes that is your only choice ie there are other uncontrollable behaviors which may place the child or others in danger.
Also, I have heard of some kids who pick up new "boyfriends" while they spent time on the locked ward. So you "solve" one problem, only to aquire a worse one.

 

[mysteriew]

After a night together at his house, David Ludwig drove his young girlfriend home at about 5:30 a.m. and then waited for the customary text-message that she had made it into her room safely.

But several messages via cell phone went unanswered, until he learned from Kara Borden a short time later that she had been caught and her parents wanted to see him, he told detectives.

"I did not aim. I have a lot of shooting experience, and I usually hit what I shoot at," Mr. Ludwig told investigators, according to the prosecution filing.

He then turned, stepped down a hallway, took two steps into the living room and shot Cathryn Borden from six feet away as she was getting out of a chair, according to the court papers.

The new filing seems to confirm that account, as Mr. Ludwig told police the girl never asked him to kill her parents.

When asked Wednesday whether Kara had been cleared or faces possible charges, Lancaster County District Attorney Donald Totaro said only that the investigation was continuing.
http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/05329/612275.stm

 

[mom3dd]

My 15 yr old daughter was emotionally abducted by an 18 yr old male she ranaway from home because he was going to break up with her. We didn't break them up but significantly curtailed their time together per a psychologist. When BF couldn't take not having her the way BF wanted the plan was made to force her to choose between him and us. He kept her in his fathers and his house where he cut a whole in the wall under the stairs for her to hide. 2 months of this and the father finally came accross her and made the BF get her out where he dumped at her grandmothers.(Which is another whole story of sick people) They had a pact that he would marry her when she was 18 and free of us. She was missing for 3 months but for the grace of God Kara's story could be ours. We had LE involved from 2nd day and they never found her even with daily calls. Finally private eye found her. My daughter doesn't even know why she was so hung up on this guy now that she is 17. But it took two years to get our daughter back emotionally.

Purpose of this reply is that a 14 year old girl is a child, and can be manipulated in the most bizarre ways. I think she needs help. I am also :furious: that LE would ever say just a runaway, and that people can criticize, not criticizie judge would be more accurate, a child for their actions. Adults are supposed to nurture children and that is any adult. I know from our experience others don't have the same values as my immediate family and what I feel is harmful they feel is just having fun or expressing themselves. NOT

 

[concernedperson]

My 15 yr old daughter was emotionally abducted by an 18 yr old male she ranaway from home because he was going to break up with her. We didn't break them up but significantly curtailed their time together per a psychologist. When BF couldn't take not having her the way BF wanted the plan was made to force her to choose between him and us. He kept her in his fathers and his house where he cut a whole in the wall under the stairs for her to hide. 2 months of this and the father finally came accross her and made the BF get her out where he dumped at her grandmothers.(Which is another whole story of sick people) They had a pact that he would marry her when she was 18 and free of us. She was missing for 3 months but for the grace of God Kara's story could be ours. We had LE involved from 2nd day and they never found her even with daily calls. Finally private eye found her. My daughter doesn't even know why she was so hung up on this guy now that she is 17. But it took two years to get our daughter back emotionally.

Purpose of this reply is that a 14 year old girl is a child, and can be manipulated in the most bizarre ways. I think she needs help. I am also :furious: that LE would ever say just a runaway, and that people can criticize, not criticizie judge would be more accurate, a child for their actions. Adults are supposed to nurture children and that is any adult. I know from our experience others don't have the same values as my immediate family and what I feel is harmful they feel is just having fun or expressing themselves. NOT

Good post and welcome. This is what a lot of us have been trying to say. I am glad your daughter is safe and not in the hands of her former BF.

 

[mysteriew]

Mom3dd, thank your for your post. You are very elequent in the way you have described how a young teen can be manipulated. I know posting your daughter's story had to be diffult, but maybe it can help others to understand. And thank you for being a strong loving parent, who didn't give up on her child.
And welcome to WS!

 

[mom3dd]

Thank you concernedperson and mysteriew for the welcome I have been lurking for awhile it seems to be an obsession since our daughter went missing and then returned. It is just astonishing to see how many are missing, and not in a central location and that it isn't important to LE or the majority out there.

 

[mysteriew]

Thank you concernedperson and mysteriew for the welcome I have been lurking for awhile it seems to be an obsession since our daughter went missing and then returned. It is just astonishing to see how many are missing, and not in a central location and that it isn't important to LE or the majority out there.

It is important to us to try to bring attention to their cases, and to the whole problem. Why don't you join in with us? Many of the posters here, are drawn here due to some tragedy that occurred in their lives.

 

[concernedperson]

Thank you concernedperson and mysteriew for the welcome I have been lurking for awhile it seems to be an obsession since our daughter went missing and then returned. It is just astonishing to see how many are missing, and not in a central location and that it isn't important to LE or the majority out there.

It is importent and most will agree, including LE. They just need to connect the dots and the dots are constantly provided here for whatever it is worth. Keep posting, we need your perspective.

 

[mysteriew]

Word is Geraldo Rivera himself called the Lancaster County Courthouse last week, trolling for information on the David Ludwig/Kara Borden case.

Or rather, the “Puppy Love Murders,” as the Court TV Web site is calling it these days.

But what makes this case unique, say media experts, and makes it compelling enough to take its place alongside the Laci Peterson and Natalee Holloway sagas, are the details: the teenage lust; the fact that Ludwig and Borden came from conservative Christian families and were homeschooled; and the revelation last week that Borden had not been kidnapped but willingly accompanied Ludwig after he allegedly shot her parents, Michael and Cathryn Borden, on Nov. 13.

“There is just enough bizarreness to this story” to keep people consistently interested, said Stephen Medvic, an assistant professor of government at Franklin & Marshall College who teaches a media course. Why would a suburban, Christian kid do such a thing?

All local stories about the murder scan be found at http://local.lancasteronline.com/1/87.


The case might also be the first local one to have been blogged so extensively. Several bloggers have commented at length on the murder; one site, http://optymyst.blogspot.com/, compiled an exhaustive list of links, including several newly discovered Web sites maintained by Kara Borden and David Ludwig.


The Ludwig/Borden case now has its own Wikipedia entry — Wikipedia is an online encyclopedia where entries are written and edited by users — as well as a series of stories posted on Court TV’s “Crime Library” Web site, where the case is one of the top stories, updated regularly. And interest does not appear to be waning. “We’ve been getting a new piece of information every few days,” said Millersville’s Dorman, and that has whetted the public’s appetite.
http://local.lancasteronline.com/4/18886

 

[mysteriew]

It's easier than ever for youths to keep secrets, and a slaying case highlights parents' worst fears.

Perfect parents. Perfect home. Perfect kids. Or so it seemed.

Then, unbelievably, two families in agony. A community in shock.

The double-murder case in Lititz - 18-year-old David Ludwig charged with shooting the parents of his secret girlfriend, Kara Beth Borden, a 14-year-old he met in their Christian homeschooling network - has provoked more than speculation about the Nov. 13 incident itself.

It has caused a wave of anxiety among many parents in the region, who wonder if anything ever truly is what it seems with their children.

If their parents had no idea, neither did lots of Borden's and Ludwig's peers. Many of the pair's associates say they had no inkling of the dark currents in their friends' lives. Others had hints - an online confidante warned Borden, "things are getting out of hand" - but didn't tell any adults.

Therein lies one of the problems related to youth violence, said James Garbarino, a psychology professor at Loyola University Chicago who investigated the Columbine killings.

Ask youths individually if they would tell an adult whether they knew of a serious problem, and they might say yes.

Garbarino cited a national post-Columbine survey that asked teens whether they would alert anyone if an acquaintance said he was going to commit a murder. Sixty percent said no.

Teenagers don't even tell on themselves. At Cornell University, where he was head of the Family Life Development Center, Garabarino did a study of female students and found that one-third had been so depressed in high school that they had considered suicide. To his astonishment, he said, 80 percent of the girls said their parents had no idea.

Kids keeping secrets "is one of the biggest ingredients here," Garbarino said. "Until we make progress on that, we're not going to make a dent" in youth violence.

Why don't they tell? Some worry "their parents can't deal with it," Garbarino said.

Every child has a hidden life. It's a normal part of establishing identity, experts say.
http://www.philly.com/mld/philly/news/13263252.htm
I encourage everyone to read this article in it's entirety. It deals a lot with points to discuss with your own child, as well as how and why this family didn't have warning about what was going to happen. Excellent article.

 

[mysteriew]

A Lancaster County judge yesterday ordered that four Web sites allegedly created by Kara Borden on Xanga.com and MySpace.com be preserved.

Last week, Assistant District Attorney Christopher Hackman asked the court to preserve the Internet and telephone accounts of Ludwig and Kara Borden. In his petition, Hackman wrote that the two likely used cell phones, computers and Web sites to communicate with each other until the double homicide.

Court papers filed yesterday state that a friend of Ludwig's and Kara Borden's reported additional Web sites to Lancaster County Detective Edward Tobin. The friend also confirmed the e-mail address and password required for Borden's MySpace.com Web site. Court officials blacked out the friend's name in the court papers.
http://www.pennlive.com/news/patriotnews/index.ssf?/base/news/1133259650146320.xml&coll=1

 

[Linda7NJ]

I thought homeschooled kids were supposed to be advanced:waitasec: ?The way these kids spell, :laugh: they may as well have had attended public school!

 

[concernedperson]

Yeah, that is one of the first things I noticed. Are we done talking about this? I think there is so much more to say. It is a deplorable condition of society. We are not talking about this crime like we should. Bringing up the emails as part of the subterfuge and not recognizing the degeneration of David. The reason so much heinous crimes go on. Are we afraid? Yes, we are. But we have to deal with this head on.I need to believe you will step up to the plate.

 

[mysteriew]

Yeah, that is one of the first things I noticed. Are we done talking about this? I think there is so much more to say. It is a deplorable condition of society. We are not talking about this crime like we should. Bringing up the emails as part of the subterfuge and not recognizing the degeneration of David. The reason so much heinous crimes go on. Are we afraid? Yes, we are. But we have to deal with this head on.I need to believe you will step up to the plate.

Nope, it doesn't look as though we are done with this. It looks like the DA is bound and determined to look for any hint that she may have known in advance. And I am glad he is doing so. If she comes out of this with no charges, we will feel certain she had no involvement in her parents deaths at least.
And if he finds something, then I hope she is charged with the max.
In the meantime, she is learning that her price for running with David is the cloud of suspicion she is living under. And the tension she is living under while waiting to see if they are going to file charges.
I don't believe in condeming her if she wasn't involved. But I am glad they are doing a through check.

 

[mysteriew]

A Lancaster County judge Monday ordered two Internet companies to turn over all communication between accused killer David G. Ludwig and his 14-year-old girlfriend, Kara Beth Borden.

The order to the companies, Xanga.com and MySpace.com, Internet firms that many teenagers use to communicate through blogs, personal logs posted on the Web, was issued at the request of the Lancaster County District Attorney's Office.

MySpace also features an internal e-mail system.

The documents say Warwick Township police Detective Edward Tobin interviewed Kayla Jefferies, "a close friend" of Kara and Ludwig.

"During this interview, (Ms. Jefferies) told Det. Tobin that she was aware that both (Kara Borden) and David Ludwig maintained Web pages on MySpace.com as well as Xanga.com," the documents read.

"In fact, (Ms. Jefferies) indicated that she knew (Kara Borden's) e-mail address and password for her MySpace.com Web site."

Three days later, Tobin contacted Lancaster city police Detective Christopher Erb and asked him to investigate further, according to the documents.

"Detective Erb contacted (Kayla Jefferies) and confirmed the e-mail address and password required to enter the Web page of (Kara Borden) as posted on the MySpace Web site," the documents read. "Thereafter Detective Erb accessed the aforementioned Web page of (Kara Borden) and determined ... her user screen name to be nonya."

Erb also learned from Jefferies that Kara used the screen names Karebear0001, stupiedxfoolish and BaNsHeE0270s, according to the documents.

Erb also accessed Ludwig's Web page at MySpace.com and determined he used the screen name Haydren, according to the documents.

"Detective Erb then queried the Haydren Web page and was able to determine that there was a posting on that page from nonya," the documents read. "At the end of that posting, the message is actually signed, 'Kara.'"ˆ"

During his investigation, Erb found at least 398 items of "evidentiary interest," including digital images of Kara "in various stages of undress," a digital photo of Kara and Ludwig and images of Ludwig holding swords and firearms, according to the documents.

Prosecutors asked Judge David L. Ashworth to sign court orders directing MySpace.com and Xanga.com to furnish "all account information and content" associated with the screen names Haydren, nonya, karebear000, karebear0001, stupidxfoolish and BaNsHeE0270s.
http://local.lancasteronline.com/4/18906

Readers comments are also interesting here.

 

[chicoliving]

GRACE: I want to go back to Brett Lovelace with the "Lancaster Intelligencer-Journal." Just before he came back -- you know, first of all, lay out the timeline for me. That has just been revealed over the weekend, the timeline leading up to this double homicide, Brett.

LOVELACE: Well, the night before the homicide, she had spent the night at his house. He brings her back home at about 5:30 a.m., drops her off. Parents are waiting up for her. They uncover that she had been out with him all night.

Then there was a flurry of text messages, and phone calls, and e-mails back and forth between the two. They couldn`t connect. Finally, they get on the phone. She says, "David, I`ve been calling. You need to come over here. My parents are furious. They want to talk to you about this."

When he goes over, he takes three guns, wraps them up in a blanket, puts one of the pistols in his waistband concealed under his jacket, goes into the house. There`s a 45-minute conversation with him and her father. The father says, "David, this relationship`s over. I`m not going to tolerate it. She`s 14. You`re 18. I`m not going to have it."

At that point, he pulls out the gun, shoots Mr. Borden in the back of the head, and then turns and shoots Mrs. Borden. She`s sitting in the chair.

GRACE: Now, where was Kara Beth Borden all this time?

LOVELACE: Kara witnessed it, according to her statements to the police. She witnessed both the shootings, then she fled out of the house. There was a little bit of chaos, that her two siblings had also fled out to call 911.

GRACE: Not her, though. She didn`t call 911.

LOVELACE: She did not; she ran out of the house looking for David, and then sees him in her car...

~snip~

LOVELACE: Well, Nancy, there`s been a lot of focus and analysis on those text messages, on the e-mail exchanges and, also, on their blogs and Web sites and instant messages. And there`s a really interesting dialogue between Kara and a 17-year-old friend of hers, a female friend, who has since been cooperating with the police and providing them with a lot of information, such as her cell phone and also her Internet passwords.

But, if you look closely at that dialogue, there`s speculation that they could be discussing Kara`s possible pregnancy and how they`re going to conceal this from Kara`s parents.


http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0511/29/ng.01.html

 

[mysteriew]

LOVELACE: Well, Nancy, there`s been a lot of focus and analysis on those text messages, on the e-mail exchanges and, also, on their blogs and Web sites and instant messages. And there`s a really interesting dialogue between Kara and a 17-year-old friend of hers, a female friend, who has since been cooperating with the police and providing them with a lot of information, such as her cell phone and also her Internet passwords.

But, if you look closely at that dialogue, there`s speculation that they could be discussing Kara`s possible pregnancy and how they`re going to conceal this from Kara`s parents.


http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0511/29/ng.01.html

I have read that exchange a couple of times. And I also feel that they may have been talking about a possible pregnancy. It was like they were talking around something, with out coming right out and saying it. Something they both already knew. Something the friend had found out before and Kara wouldn't talk to her about. Also something made this friend speak up and push the issue at that time, even though Kara didn't want to talk about it. And Kara said that she and David were taking care of it. Many thought they were referring to the fact that it was illegal for them to have sex, and fear that David would get into trouble. But I think a pregnancy is more likely. And it also would show some of the pressures which led to Kara's decision to run with David.
It also puts into perspective the fact that when they were captured, they said that they were running away and were planning to get married.
Not they were running away from the murder, they were running away and going to get married.

 

[Hbgchick]

I thought homeschooled kids were supposed to be advanced:waitasec: ?The way these kids spell, :laugh: they may as well have had attended public school!

Not to defend crappy spelling because it's one of my pet peeves, but I'm thinking that these kids are just using slang with each other and if they needed to they really could spell. I hope.

 

[Hbgchick]

I have read that exchange a couple of times. And I also feel that they may have been talking about a possible pregnancy. It was like they were talking around something, with out coming right out and saying it. Something they both already knew. Something the friend had found out before and Kara wouldn't talk to her about. Also something made this friend speak up and push the issue at that time, even though Kara didn't want to talk about it. And Kara said that she and David were taking care of it. Many thought they were referring to the fact that it was illegal for them to have sex, and fear that David would get into trouble. But I think a pregnancy is more likely. And it also would show some of the pressures which led to Kara's decision to run with David.
It also puts into perspective the fact that when they were captured, they said that they were running away and were planning to get married.
Not they were running away from the murder, they were running away and going to get married.

I've said from day one that I thought it was pregnancy they were concealing. That would also add quite a bit of stress and pressure to David (NOT that I'm defending his actions), but there's a difference between "I'm going to shoot someone because he says I can't see his daughter" and "I'm going to shoot someone because they want to stop me from my having a FAMILY with his daughter". It could be that David told Kara's father she was pregnant, the argument escalated, the father told David there was no way in H E L L that he was going to let Kara have his baby...who knows. But if this conversation is accurate, when Kara says something to the effect of "we took that risk the first time he came over"...that reads "pregnant" to me. Had she said "...the first time he snuck in", that would have read "we took the risk my parents would find out". JMO.

 

[joanofarc]

Bump and

Timeline in article:

http://crime.allinfoabout.com/news/borden/borden112905.html