GUILTY Pa - One Adult, 20 Students Stabbed At Murrysville High School, 9 April 2014

[Tulessa]

Could be, you never know.:floorlaugh:

Sorry for the o/t guys, but faw? If not? get out of my head!! :floorlaugh:

 

[faw720]

OMG I thought I was the only person who felt like that about the school zones! I understand for smaller children, but really, if you can't cross a road safely by the time you are 14, something is wrong.

I agree we coddle children so much it is not helping them but hurting them. I always have to tell my husband to let our little one struggle to do things, instead of just helping her. Like, if she is trying to climb on the couch(she is 14months) let her pull herself up. If she can't figure something out, let her little mind explore and figure it out. And, of course I am biased, but my 14month old is much more advanced than some of her friends who are several months older. I always remind my hubby of the story of the butterfly. When a butterfly is coming out of its cocoon, it struggles, it's a fight, but the fight is what makes it capable to fly, as the force of emerging from the cocoon pushes fluid into its wings, allowing it to take flight. If you helped it out, it would never fly.

Now with that being said please don't think I am this harsh mom, I help my little one and comfort her when needed, but, I let her learn, explore and figure things out on her own. I think that is vital.

Something on my computer is whacky. It wouldn't let me put a 'thanks' on your post. Anyway, you sound like a great mom to me

 

[Linda7NJ]

OMG I thought I was the only person who felt like that about the school zones! I understand for smaller children, but really, if you can't cross a road safely by the time you are 14, something is wrong.



I agree we coddle children so much it is not helping them but hurting them. I always have to tell my husband to let our little one struggle to do things, instead of just helping her. Like, if she is trying to climb on the couch(she is 14months) let her pull herself up. If she can't figure something out, let her little mind explore and figure it out. And, of course I am biased, but my 14month old is much more advanced than some of her friends who are several months older. I always remind my hubby of the story of the butterfly. When a butterfly is coming out of its cocoon, it struggles, it's a fight, but the fight is what makes it capable to fly, as the force of emerging from the cocoon pushes fluid into its wings, allowing it to take flight. If you helped it out, it would never fly.



Now with that being said please don't think I am this harsh mom, I help my little one and comfort her when needed, but, I let her learn, explore and figure things out on her own. I think that is vital.

I realized recently that my very athletic rough and tumble son never suffered skinned up knees. Not once. I had knee pads, shin guards, elbow pads, wrist guards, chest guard & helmeted him up he had zero fear ....he was doing BMX racing at age 4! Zero fear...me I was a wreak.
I didn't come to my senses until I saw online some horrific injuries from BMX racing.
No more BMX racing!
Off with the pads...and he was relegated to cul-de-sac, park for quite a few years.

I forgot to finish my point. The first time my son bled, you'd think his arm was lopped off. It was a paper cut!


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[Gardenlady]

I see. So you're all saying that if we let teachers paddle kids, let cars drive faster where lots of people are crossing the road, and gender police them by telling them to "man up" when they cry, then "this" will all magically stop.

Oohhhkay.

Also - I will let my 17 year old son - who never really was good in school, and for a long time never had any close friends due to social awkwardness, but was so proud for *years* of the little participation trophy he got in soccer at age 6 because to him it represented something fun he got to do with other kids who at school normally did not play with him - know that I will be taking away his trophy because its causing violence in schools. :facepalm:

 

[Gardenlady]

Also, still waiting to see when/where it was that all the unnamed experts got together and I guess decided to make all of today's kids into....what? I'm guessing you'd all use the word "sissies"? But yet, they're so violent, aren't they? Which is it? Crybaby whimps, or violent, out of control monsters? :waitasec:

 

[Bipolar Express]

IMO if it's a fact that he didn't own a cell phone, that's very concerning to me.


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Why? My 15 year old does not have a cell phone. He has no reason to have one, it is just something to distract him from schoolwork etc. He will get one when he starts driving-until then we always know where he is with and who he is with..its our job. We cannot afford to get all our kids cell phones, and because we are trying to pay off bills and be debt free, we only have tracphones (hubby and I)...we certainly cant afford to buy our three teens cell phones. So why is that concerning?

 

[Linda7NJ]

I see. So you're all saying that if we let teachers paddle kids, let cars drive faster where lots of people are crossing the road, and gender police them by telling them to "man up" when they cry, then "this" will all magically stop.

Oohhhkay.

Also - I will let my 17 year old son - who never really was good in school, and for a long time never had any close friends due to social awkwardness, but was so proud for *years* of the little participation trophy he got in soccer at age 6 because to him it represented something fun he got to do with other kids who at school normally did not play with him - know that I will be taking away his trophy because its causing violence in schools. :facepalm:

I just want to clarify my point. I think participation trophies are great. I don't think it's fair for the children that excel to be ignored. Every team has a Most Valuable Player.
For some kids that sport may be the only thing they are good at. They need their gifts to be recognized.

It's my opinion, everyone has a gift, talent or area they excel in. Finding it is important because it needs to be nurtured, encouraged and acknowledged

All children aren't the same. They shouldn't be treated the same.

---
School where I live a teacher can't even make a student clean up their own mess. Students can willfully throw trash on the floor.
Parents revolted and screamed that's what the janitors are for!
The result, in school suspension. That's just stupid. IMO

I'll agree that paddling isn't the answer.
But IEP's excusing it or zero tolerance isn't the answer either.

---




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[Linda7NJ]

Also, still waiting to see when/where it was that all the unnamed experts got together and I guess decided to make all of today's kids into....what? I'm guessing you'd all use the word "sissies"? But yet, they're so violent, aren't they? Which is it? Crybaby whimps, or violent, out of control monsters? :waitasec:

No no. It's a balancing act, I would use the word unprepared for the reality of life. They tend to not accept no for an answer, think rules don't apply to them and can be overly sensitive and disconnected from others. I don't mean disconnected in like shy or awkward. I mean zero empathy & compassion for and the value of others.


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[Dogface]

I would say, in a lot of ways, kids today are "sissies" emotionally. They can't cope with not being liked or not fitting in. That's not to say all kids are that way because of being coddled, and I would even reach as far to guess that some are that way as a result of not enough love. Being a parent is hard work, far too many people take the easy way out and are never really parents at all. I think any extreme is detrimental with anything in life. Too much love, not enough love can result in the same thing in my opinion. I remember friends growing up who had it both ways. Neither produced a great end result.

And personally I think telling a kid to suck it up, deal with it, man up is all okay, as long as they also know that there is a time and place to deal with certain emotions. You can't always walk around saying "so and so was mean to me"....the fact is the world is a not so nice place, bullies will present themselves at all stages of life. But, a person needs to know their own worth, and realize that no ones opinion of their self worth matters but their own.

 

[Linda7NJ]

Why? My 15 year old does not have a cell phone. He has no reason to have one, it is just something to distract him from schoolwork etc. He will get one when he starts driving-until then we always know where he is with and who he is with..its our job. We cannot afford to get all our kids cell phones, and because we are trying to pay off bills and be debt free, we only have tracphones (hubby and I)...we certainly cant afford to buy our three teens cell phones. So why is that concerning?

I don't think the cost is a factor in this particular situation.

I think cells phones play a very important part in teenagers lives. It's how they communicate IME.




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[SurfieTX]

I don't think there is a one-size-fits-all approach to parenting. We have 2 kids. They have been reared in the same home, same town, same schools with the same parents (we are still married, going on 24 years). What worked for one didn't and does not work for the other. They are 2 different people with 2 different personalities.

That said, I would not be surprised if this guy has an earlier-than-normal onset of schizophrenia. By all accounts, he was a little standoffish, but a generally good kid overall. The symptoms come on slowly and are easy to mask at first until the full blown paranoia and voices come into play. His parents probably noticed a few odd behaviors but probably chalked it up to adolescence and high school.

 

[Gardenlady]

I just want to clarify my point. I think participation trophies are great. I don't think it's fair for the children that excel to be ignored. Every team has a Most Valuable Player.
For some kids that sport may be the only thing they are good at. They need their gifts to be recognized.

It's my opinion, everyone has a gift, talent or area they excel in. Finding it is important because it needs to be nurtured, encouraged and acknowledged

All children aren't the same. They shouldn't be treated the same.

---
School where I live a teacher can't even make a student clean up their own mess. Students can willfully throw trash on the floor.
Parents revolted and screamed that's what the janitors are for!
The result, in school suspension. That's just stupid. IMO

I'll agree that paddling isn't the answer.
But IEP's excusing it or zero tolerance isn't the answer either.

---




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Zero tolerance is stupid, but I don't even see how that fits in here. It would seem zero-tolerance would be a great tool for those who think kids need to toughen up, too bad for you, etc.

IEPs - really, what should we do? Take away the only path some kids have to succeed due to a disability?

I've never seen an older kids sport where people's individual talents aren't recognized. Younger kids, sure - because sports at that age teach primarily *teamwork* and motor skills. I don't know though, maybe we should have try outs for stuff at age four, and then tell crying preschoolers that they can't play because they suck, man up and get over it.

 

[Gardenlady]

Apologies for the little smug looking sunglasses guy up in the subject of my post... Fat thumbs on iPad must have clicked it, was not trying to be flippant lol.

And now really gotta run...

 

[Dogface]

I don't think there is a one-size-fits-all approach to parenting. We have 2 kids. They have been reared in the same home, same town, same schools with the same parents (we are still married, going on 24 years). What worked for one didn't and does not work for the other. They are 2 different people with 2 different personalities.

That said, I would not be surprised if this guy has an earlier-than-normal onset of schizophrenia. By all accounts, he was a little standoffish, but a generally good kid overall. The symptoms come on slowly and are easy to mask at first until the full blown paranoia and voices come into play. His parents probably noticed a few odd behaviors but probably chalked it up to adolescence and high school.

ITA! Each human is so different, it's impossible to raise any two kids the same I would imagine. Or if you did it wouldn't be to the best interest of the child. Some kids need more tenderness, some more tough love...that's why I say parenting is such a hard job. You have to try to find out what will work best for your child, in your situation.

 

[SurfieTX]

ITA! Each human is so different, it's impossible to raise any two kids the same I would imagine. Or if you did it wouldn't be to the best interest of the child. Some kids need more tenderness, some more tough love...that's why I say parenting is such a hard job. You have to try to find out what will work best for your child, in your situation.

O/T - I LOVE your Dobie!! We rescued one about 4 years ago and he is the BEST dog in the whole wide world. I will never own another breed.

 

[Linda7NJ]

Zero tolerance is stupid, but I don't even see how that fits in here. It would seem zero-tolerance would be a great tool for those who think kids need to toughen up, too bad for you, etc.



IEPs - really, what should we do? Take away the only path some kids have to succeed due to a disability?



I've never seen an older kids sport where people's individual talents aren't recognized. Younger kids, sure - because sports at that age teach primarily *teamwork* and motor skills. I don't know though, maybe we should have try outs for stuff at age four, and then tell crying preschoolers that they can't play because they suck, man up and get over it.

No not in preschool.

It's not just about teamwork and motor skills. It's about learning some people may be better than you, maybe you excel, can learn you aren't always going to win, it's also about learning to loosing gracefully. It's about doing you best and still sometimes failing and getting right back out there and trying again tomorrow. It's enjoying the thrill of victory and have some class about it.

The earlier that's taught, the better. IMO

I see parents set their children up all the time. Like sending their son off to school with a My Little Pony lunch box and then get all upset when he's teased. Should a child be able to? Absolutely! The reality is he just can't and not expect to suffer the consequences. He wants to play with and eat out of a Pony lunch box at home? I say go for it!
He can fight that battle all he wants when he's old enough to handle it.


If the snowflakes IEP includes a free pass to violent or vulgar behavior ...that child needs a far more therapeutic setting than a public school.



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[Ociboys]

Im trying to stay quiet but can't, or wont. We need to teach kids to stand up for themselves, respect, love and value both themselves, and others in this world. Kids are losing a since of connection and lacking coping skills in todays society and no I don't have a link for that. Read the news of the suicides, the mental health issues, the drugs, the violence, the unfortunate attack of yesterday and all the others sad things going on. Their world has a screen that exists between them and human/life connection, whether its a cell, tablet, computer or TV. Bullying is not going to stop…its been around forever. Signing a anti-bullying campaign is not going to solve the problem. Its going to continue with the professor in college who just doesn't like you, the unbearable boss, or the two-faced coworker, the distant nasty family member, or social media threads. We've all been there on one level or another. If you haven't, your pretty lucky. There is no easy answer, I just wanted to share my 2 cents.

We didn't allow our son to have a smartphone until he was 16. He had my cell phone anytime he was out and about with friends for an emergency. As far as we were concerned he was at home, with his friends, playing rec sports or school 90% of the time and didn't need one.

 

[Linda7NJ]

ITA! Each human is so different, it's impossible to raise any two kids the same I would imagine. Or if you did it wouldn't be to the best interest of the child. Some kids need more tenderness, some more tough love...that's why I say parenting is such a hard job. You have to try to find out what will work best for your child, in your situation.

I totally agree. I see some problems that would have impeded this child socially. He didn't have a cell phone and his face was full of pimples. Should that matter? Of course not! The reality is it's not easy connect with other people, make friends and socialize ...he needs to feel good about himself.

**** I am not saying pimples and lack of cell phone lead to this!!!!


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[SurfieTX]

Im trying to stay quiet but can't, or wont. We need to teach kids to stand up for themselves, respect, love and value both themselves, and others in this world. Kids are losing a since of connection and lacking coping skills in todays society and no I don't have a link for that. Read the news of the suicides, the mental health issues, the drugs, the violence, the unfortunate attack of yesterday and all the others sad things going on. Their world has a screen that exists between them and human/life connection, whether its a cell, tablet, computer or TV. Bullying is not going to stop…its been around forever. Signing a anti-bullying campaign is not going to solve the problem. Its going to continue with the professor in college who just doesn't like you, the unbearable boss, or the two-faced coworker, the distant nasty family member, or social media threads. We've all been there on one level or another. If you haven't, your pretty lucky. There is no easy answer, I just wanted to share my 2 cents.

We didn't allow our son to have a smartphone until he was 16. He had my cell phone anytime he was out and about with friends for an emergency. As far as we were concerned he was at home, with his friends, playing rec sports or school 90% of the time and didn't need one.

I have a good friend. He is a gay man in his 40s and a product of the foster care system who also suffered horrific abuse from his family. He decided about 6 years ago to adopt an "older" foster care child (6). After struggling with medications and whatnot, he decided to quit his job and take his son across the world. I think they have been to about 20 countries now. He is "unschooling" him by teaching him history, where dad is not accepted, where women are required to be veiled, where the concentration camps were in Germany, where dad is accepted, where there are poor are all over the world.

I am in awe of him. Really. Oh, and his son is off all medications now and lives to scuba, travel, learn new languages, visit historical sites, learn about every kind of culture there is to see, etc. It's amazing. We are SO sheltered in the US, as are our children. I can see that as being a big issue as well.

 

[Linda7NJ]

I have a good friend. He is a gay man in his 40s and a product of the foster care system who also suffered horrific abuse from his family. He decided about 6 years ago to adopt an "older" foster care child (6). After struggling with medications and whatnot, he decided to quit his job and take his son across the world. I think they have been to about 20 countries now. He is "unschooling" him by teaching him history, where dad is not accepted, where women are required to be veiled, where the concentration camps were in Germany, where dad is accepted, where there are poor are all over the world.



I am in awe of him. Really. Oh, and his son is off all medications now and lives to scuba, travel, learn new languages, visit historical sites, learn about every kind of culture there is to see, etc. It's amazing. We are SO sheltered in the US, as are our children. I can see that as being a big issue as well.

Me too! That's awesome!


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