PA PA - Ray Gricar, 59, Bellefonte, 15 April 2005 - #11

[J. J. in Phila]

LE checked RFG's medical records and found nothing.

The "doctor" was not meeting RFG; the "doctor" was down there for some other reason, I'm guessing relaxation.

I am also not sure that the "doctor" was a physician. There are a lot of people in the area that have a Ph D in non medical fields, e.g. a Ph D in literature or geology. I just had an e-mail exchange with a doctor this morning. He has a Ph D in meteorology from MIT.

 

[SuperSmith]

I've been told that the news reported the Quarry Mini sighting at 4:30PM, Friday, April 15, 2005. I wonder if this sighting has ever been ruled out.

 

[SeekingJana]

IF the Mini was in a dusty old quarry, as you say, then it would either have been washed afterwards, or would have been dirty and dusty when parked in the SOS lot.

Before this goes any further, wouldn't it be logical to know whether there is any reason to think the car was washed?
I'm thinking it obviously was not washed, since fingerprints were recovered, smudged prints were found, then there is the matter of the cig. ash. on the passenger side carpets.

Can you reconcile a relatively clean but apparently not freshly washed car with a trip to a quarry?

 

[SuperSmith]

IF the Mini was in a dusty old quarry, as you say, then it would either have been washed afterwards, or would have been dirty and dusty when parked in the SOS lot.

Before this goes any further, wouldn't it be logical to know whether there is any reason to think the car was washed?
I'm thinking it obviously was not washed, since fingerprints were recovered, smudged prints were found, then there is the matter of the cig. ash. on the passenger side carpets.

Can you reconcile a relatively clean but apparently not freshly washed car with a trip to a quarry?

I said I didn't think it was dirty but it was hard to tell from the photo I looked at as it was from behind and some distance away. Also there is no way of knowing if the said Mini actually drove all the way back the road that leads to the quarry pits or perhaps just turned around in the parking lot at the building at the entrance. Without specifics its hard to be sure. Here is a map for reference.

https://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en

 

[J. J. in Phila]

The only quarry sighting I am familiar with, where a time is stated, is 8:00 AM to 8:30 AM, though there were numerous reports of a quarry sighting.

Also, RFG's fingerprint was found on the outside driver's side window. There is no guarantee that RFG touched it on 4/15 or 4/16, but he would have had to have touched it after the last time it was washed.

 

[SuperSmith]

The only quarry sighting I am familiar with, where a time is stated, is 8:00 AM to 8:30 AM, though there were numerous reports of a quarry sighting.

Also, RFG's fingerprint was found on the outside driver's side window. There is no guarantee that RFG touched it on 4/15 or 4/16, but he would have had to have touched it after the last time it was washed.

I was told by a long time follower of the case that there were initial reports of a Red/White Mini on the News being spotted at the Quarry around 4:30pm.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

Well, I can state that the witness that contacted me said 8:00 AM to 8:30 AM. That was the only time I could find, apart from recent message board comments, about the time of the quarry sighting. I do not recall any time associated with a quarry sighting.

Keep in mind that there was discussion of the quarry east of the Susquehanna.

The first two threads on this board do have the contemporary information on the case. While I don't recall any reference to the time of the quarry sighting, anyone interested might check there.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

I did a search on the threads from 4/17/05 until 2008.

There were about 4 references to the quarry, but no times.

 

[Saunterer]

MC clubs havebeen known to drive a body many miles to dump in a quarry or a mine shaft for that matter.Sometimes 350 miles or more and they do have favorite locations that they reuse. I cannot tell you how I know this cause my life would be in danger. But I know this for a fact. As insider information.

Surface subsidences are common in PA coal regions over company mines. And there are thousands of old bootleg coal holes (shafts) as well, where the surface cover occasionally gives way. Thousands!

 

[Saunterer]

Is it possible that the doctor gave him some bad health news and put a chain of events into motion that we have not considered as of yet?

I tend to think not. LE acquired Gricar's medical records by warrant, supported solely by his GF's statements about his "unusual" napping habits of late ... which, according to certain sources, were embellished in order to enable LE to secure the warrant in the first place. According to LE, LOL, but seriously, according to others, there is no indication of health problems.

 

[Saunterer]

Please keep in mind that when Ray Gricar suddenly disappeared he was the long time district attorney of Centre County; that the then state attorney general, Tom Corbett, could not have cared less; and that Centre County officials, accordingly, kept the state attorney general's office (and therefore the PSP) out of the information loop as much as possible.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

There have been two elected, and one acting, DA's since RFG disappeared; they are of both parties. They all have declined to call in the AG's Office.

There have three AG's since RFG disappeared, one of which was appointed. They are of both parties. None of them have attempted to get directly involved in the case.

 

[Saunterer]

Despite national news coverage of the sudden disappearance of Centre County DA Ray Gricar, the state AGO has refused to lead the investigation, hiding behind the state's attorney general law. I call bull ****! There is nothing in the law which would prevent a parallel state investigation, with or without the participation of local LE.

Quite apparently that was never an option that was viable while Corbett was in charge. But Corbett, and his minions are no longer in charge.

 

[Saunterer]

There have been two elected, and one acting, DA's since RFG disappeared; they are of both parties. They all have declined to call in the AG's Office.

There have three AG's since RFG disappeared, one of which was appointed. They are of both parties. None of them have attempted to get directly involved in the case.

Duly noted! But I stand by my assessment! Surely the state has a vested interest in solving the Gricar case. So why does it not?

 

[J. J. in Phila]

The state has a "vested interest" in following the law.

The AG is not a "super prosecutor" under PA law, who can swoop in and just order things to be done. Even if the AG would determine that the Centre County DA abused his/her discretion, he/she would have to go to court, in Centre County, and claim it. The AG does not have the power to say to any DA, "You have not solved the case, therefore I am taking it over."

I think it is fair to say that I have been very critical of the former DA of Centre County in how he handled the RFG case, but even there, I could not find legitimate grounds for the AG to intervene. The closest point occurred on 11/5/11, where it could be argued that there is now the appearance of a conflict of interest, even though there is no evidence of any.

 

[Trackergd]

Duly noted! But I stand by my assessment! Surely the state has a vested interest in solving the Gricar case. So why does it not?

It already knows? What could RG have or know that would be such a danger for such a long time to that many people? And if that is the bottom line, was it so damaging that they needed a "sweeper" to eliminate him?

Lack of action is evidence unto itself. If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck.....

 

[Trackergd]

The state has a "vested interest" in following the law.

The AG is not a "super prosecutor" under PA law, who can swoop in and just order things to be done. Even if the AG would determine that the Centre County DA abused his/her discretion, he/she would have to go to court, in Centre County, and claim it. The AG does not have the power to say to any DA, "You have not solved the case, therefore I am taking it over."
I think it is fair to say that I have been very critical of the former DA of Centre County in how he handled the RFG case, but even there, I could not find legitimate grounds for the AG to intervene. The closest point occurred on 11/5/11, where it could be argued that there is now the appearance of a conflict of interest, even though there is no evidence of any.

RBBM

While I agree, he/she can make enough of a stink to draw attention to the matter causing those with the authority to looked like smacked a**es and peak the interest of the media.

Or I could be full of hot air....

 

[Saunterer]

It already knows? What could RG have or know that would be such a danger for such a long time to that many people? And if that is the bottom line, was it so damaging that they needed a "sweeper" to eliminate him?

Lack of action is evidence unto itself. If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck.....

I like your "sweeper" notion.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

The AG could raise a big stink, but that strategy has not been too effective. Buehner and McKnight tried it in 2008.

We have had three AG's since RFG disappeared, Corbett (2005-11), Kelly (2011-13), and Kane (2013-present). Kain, if asked, can say, "No, and my predecessors didn't, either."

The DA from 2006-10, Madeira (MTM) was the most susceptible to "a big stink." He was facing numerous problems and was running for reelection. He was close to the AG, having been a former deputy AG. Turning it over would have helped him. He still didn't do it.

 

[Saunterer]

The state has a "vested interest" in following the law.

The AG is not a "super prosecutor" under PA law, who can swoop in and just order things to be done. Even if the AG would determine that the Centre County DA abused his/her discretion, he/she would have to go to court, in Centre County, and claim it. The AG does not have the power to say to any DA, "You have not solved the case, therefore I am taking it over."

I think it is fair to say that I have been very critical of the former DA of Centre County in how he handled the RFG case, but even there, I could not find legitimate grounds for the AG to intervene. The closest point occurred on 11/5/11, where it could be argued that there is now the appearance of a conflict of interest, even though there is no evidence of any.

OK <modsnip>, I respectfully disagree. The AGO has always had the authority to conduct its own parallel criminal investigation into the disappearance of one of its finest county representatives. So why did it (has it) not?
<modsnip>